Batman 89 Vs. TDK

[The Joker]

Jack Nicholson over shadowed Keaton just being Jack Nicholson.

Hahahaha true. He even took title billing on the cast credits

 

[Cypher00]

I thought The Joker overshadowed Batman too much in The Dark Knight (I mean it in a bad way). Batman was not given enough iconic scenes, lacked the intimidating presence that he had in Batman Begins and I thought Christian Bale didn't maintain the role of Batman to how great it was in Batman Begins (I would blame this more on the script because David Goyer had a minimum contribution, Jonah Nolan just re-wrote Goyer's early draft).

Isn't that the intention of TDK, though? To show a beginning Bruce/Batman facing his first true challenge (The Joker) and being so overcome by it that he almost quits? If he seemed more intimidating with The Joker, wouldn't it kill the whole narrative the Nolans are trying to tell with the film? The arc of the Nolan Batman trilogy seems to be Bruce becoming Batman. In TDK, he still hasn't fully become him. If he had, you wouldn't have scenes where he almost quits because the pressure gets too be to much.

I doubt the full Batman will even show up until somewhere in the 3rd Nolan film, and that seems to be the intention. It sure isn't a fault of Bale. Hard to play a more intimidating Batman when the script indicates that he is supposed to be struggling with his mission.

 

[Travesty]

Isn't that the intention of TDK, though? To show a beginning Bruce/Batman facing his first true challenge (The Joker) and being so overcome by it that he almost quits? If he seemed more intimidating with The Joker, wouldn't it kill the whole narrative the Nolans are trying to tell with the film? The arc of the Nolan Batman trilogy seems to be Bruce becoming Batman. In TDK, he still hasn't fully become him. If he had, you wouldn't have scenes where he almost quits because the pressure gets too be to much.

How did you miss the very thing you bolded? He said, he lacked the intimidation that was in BB.

 

[redfirebird2008]

1) Movie - Tied.
2) Director - Christopher Nolan
3) Batman - Michael Keaton
4) Joker - Heath Ledger
5) Sound Track - Danny Elfman
6) Woman friend - Kim Basinger
7) Alfred - Michael Caine

And the kind of film-noir-ish vibe the Design of Gotham city gives off.

Really, the only thing that dates B89 as an 80's movie is the Prince soundtrack. If that wasn't there, it would be pretty much timeless.

The cars are very much dated to the 80's. I swear the 80's were the worst decade for car design. Even the Mustang looked like crap and that is a car that has generally looked cool during a vast majority of its time. Another thing about B89 that hasn't held up so well is the production values. I have the Burton Batman movies on Blu-ray and you can tell a pretty big jump in production values between the two films. It's not surprising that Batman Returns had nearly twice the budget of B89. That being said, Burton and Furst did the best they could with the budget they had in 1989.

 

[Brother Jack]

I think Batman 89 was dark but it didn't take itself too seriously that it got too much whereas The Dark Knight took itself too seriously that it became like a crime-drama that you wouldn't be surprised if it got nominated for an Oscar. Batman 89 felt more like a comic book movie that was dark/spooky but balanced it out with the fun/comic booky aspects.

Um, how is being nominated for an Oscar a bad thing?

 

[The Joker]

Um, how is being nominated for an Oscar a bad thing?

It's not. And the fact he thinks that the movie took itself seriously is the reason it got nominated is ridiculous. The movie got nominated because it was great. Because it got the balance right.

 

[redfirebird2008]

It's not. And the fact he thinks that the movie took itself seriously is the reason it got nominated is ridiculous. The movie got nominated because it was great. Because it got the balance right.

It didn't get nominated though.

 

[The Joker]

It didn't get nominated though.

I know. I'm saying if it did, that'd be why. Not because it's serious. Tons of serious movies get shunned by the Oscars.

 

[Hound55]

I can't fathom how anyone could say Maggie Gyllanhal...

To me she was the worst female lead in a batman film BAR NONE, and the second worst acting performance from a major actress after Alicia Silverstone (who is also far easier on the eyes).

Maggie Gyllanhal's performance in that movie pained me... it was the worst thing about the Dark Knight. Worse than the plot holes... because at least you could suspend belief for the plot holes. Her delivery was that painful it knocked me out of the movie, continually.

And I generally like Maggie Gyllanhal... but she phoned it in in TDK...

 

[CJ]

Yea, she was much much much worse than Katie Holmes.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Yea, she was much much much worse than Katie Holmes.

I liked her more then Holmes, but I've never really liked either. I've never disliked either as much as everyone else has either, but I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that Rachel was just an uninteresting love interest.

 

[The Joker]

Harsh words. I didn't mind Holmes or Gyllenhaal. They are the most bland love interests ever, but they were not THAT bad.

 

[redfirebird2008]

I can't fathom how anyone could say Maggie Gyllanhal...

To me she was the worst female lead in a batman film BAR NONE, and the second worst acting performance from a major actress after Alicia Silverstone (who is also far easier on the eyes).

Maggie Gyllanhal's performance in that movie pained me... it was the worst thing about the Dark Knight. Worse than the plot holes... because at least you could suspend belief for the plot holes. Her delivery was that painful it knocked me out of the movie, continually.

And I generally like Maggie Gyllanhal... but she phoned it in in TDK...

I agree. I voted for Basinger, although the amount of screaming was ridiculous (not her fault, but a script problem).

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I liked her more then Holmes, but I've never really liked either. I've never disliked either as much as everyone else has either, but I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that Rachel was just an uninteresting love interest.

She's not even a character; in the first film, she's a philosophical point of view (like most of the characters in The Matrix sequels) and Bruce's conscience. In The Dark Knight, she's just there to add to the Bruce/Harvey dynamic.

Rachel is a completely thankless role and any actress would struggle to do much with it.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I liked her more then Holmes, but I've never really liked either. I've never disliked either as much as everyone else has either, but I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that Rachel was just an uninteresting love interest.

She's not even a character; in the first film, she's a philosophical point of view (like most of the characters in The Matrix sequels) and Bruce's conscience. In The Dark Knight, she's just there to add to the Bruce/Harvey dynamic.

Rachel is a completely thankless role (but important for the story itself) and any actress would struggle to do much with it.

I think Vicki is a much more appealing character; she is Dorothy Gale, she is the stepping stone for the audience into the crazy world of Batman and the Joker. Plus she fits perfectly into the almost fairy tale damsel in distress role in the Beauty and the Beast/Phantom of the Opera style of the 1989 movie.

PS: How badass does Keaton look in the picture below? None of the others ever looked that awesome.

 

[Travesty]

PS: How badass does Keaton look in the picture below? None of the others ever looked that awesome.

That's because Keaton owned the role. Truth!

 

[The Joker]

Yeah, Keaton is the best live action Batman to date. No doubt.

 

[Travesty]

Yeah, Keaton is the best live action Batman to date. No doubt.

Hey man, I'm doing an experiment on the two Nolan and Burton films, and so far, my findings are quit eerie, to say the least. I've only gotten through the Nolan films, but I'll post my findings in the TDK vs Begins thread, and also start a new thread, probably here in Misc Bat-films. I think you'll be interested, but check back in about an hour or so, as I'm more then half way done.

PS: This is the nerdiest thing I have ever done in my life, and I'm not ashamed. Check back.

 

[The Joker]

Hey man, I'm doing an experiment on the two Nolan and Burton films, and so far, my findings are quit eerie, to say the least. I've only gotten through the Nolan films, but I'll post my findings in the TDK vs Begins thread, and also start a new thread, probably here in Misc Bat-films. I think you'll be interested, but check back in about an hour or so, as I'm more then half way done.

PS: This is the nerdiest thing I have ever done in my life, and I'm not ashamed. Check back.

Experiment on the movies? I am very intrigued.

You're registered on a superhero forum. Your nerd status was sealed from that very moment

 

[Travesty]

Experiment on the movies? I am very intrigued.

You're registered on a superhero forum. Your nerd status was sealed from that very moment

Hehe, no, this is THE nerdiest thing possible, even for SHH standards. Anyways, done with one Burton movie, onto the next. And when I'm finished, I'll show my findings, and be as thorough as possible, so everyone can see exactly what I did.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Yeah, Keaton is the best live action Batman to date. No doubt.

Yep. But I do prefer Bale's Wayne.

 

[Travesty]

Yep. But I do prefer Bale's Wayne.

Same here.

 

[returntovoid]

Um, how is being nominated for an Oscar a bad thing?

It's all a matter of opinion/preference not about it being a bad thing.

I honestly don't like Oscar-type ultra-serious films but the exceptions of the ones that are my favorites would be LOTR trilogy, Taxi Driver, The Departed and The Godfather but even though The Godfather is one of my all-time favorite films, I still wouldn't want a Batman film to be that serious.

It didn't get nominated though.

Not really sure if you're being sarcastic or not but Heath Ledger won the Oscar for Best Actor in a Supporting role.

She's not even a character; in the first film, she's a philosophical point of view (like most of the characters in The Matrix sequels) and Bruce's conscience. In The Dark Knight, she's just there to add to the Bruce/Harvey dynamic.

I dislike the Dawes character but at least there was a purpose for her in Batman Begins. In The Dark Knight, she was just there for the silly love triangle and for Dent's tragedy (for which Gilda from the comics could have been used for).

At the end of Batman Begins, it seemed like Dawes was done with him since she couldn't accept his Batman/Bruce in private persona (who he really is). There was no point in bringing the Dawes character back in The Dark Knight because her purpose/part in the story was done instead they should have gotten a stronger love interest that could accept his real persona (I obviously mean Catwoman) or no love interest at all until the third film.

 

[El Payaso]

The Dawes character was bad. But at least in TDK had things to do other than to tell Bruce what should he be thinking. And nothing in this world is worse than watching Katie Holmes trying to look and sound deep and philosophical.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Not really sure if you're being sarcastic or not but Heath Ledger won the Oscar for Best Actor in a Supporting role.

The person I responded to was talking about the movie itself, meaning Best Picture.