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Batman 89 Vs. TDK

It's all a matter of opinion/preference not about it being a bad thing.

I honestly don't like Oscar-type ultra-serious films but the exceptions of the ones that are my favorites would be LOTR trilogy, Taxi Driver, The Departed and The Godfather but even though The Godfather is one of my all-time favorite films, I still wouldn't want a Batman film to be that serious.
I never thought I'd see an apparent Batman complain about his character being taken seriously. And you're making it sound like TDK was ultra-prestigious Oscar bait that wasn't a fun movie-going experience, which is absurd.
 
At the end of Batman Begins, it seemed like Dawes was done with him since she couldn't accept his Batman/Bruce in private persona (who he really is). There was no point in bringing the Dawes character back in The Dark Knight because her purpose/part in the story was done instead they should have gotten a stronger love interest that could accept his real persona (I obviously mean Catwoman) or no love interest at all until the third film.

I disagree. The point of bringing back Rachel and then killing her adds two great things to the story.

The first is that the girl Bruce loved since he was a boy slipped from his grasp because he became Batman. That's one of the oldest superhero conventions but it always works. The hero can't have the girl he deserves because his responsibility is to the community.

The second point is that Rachel died, and not only did Batman not manage to save her, he can question just how responsible he is for it and all the mayhem the Joker caused.
 
1) B'89, though not by much.
2) Christopher Nolan
3) Michael Keaton
4) Heath Ledger
5) Elfman
6) Kim Basinger
7) Michael Gough
 
I prefer the the score, the art direction, and Michael Gough as Alfred in Batman'89. Nicholson and Ledger are equal, love them both.

Nolan's direction and storytelling are far and away better than Burton's. The problem with the previous Batman films is that they are weak on plot, barely have any at all. Burton was nice with the characterization and certain thematic moments but he simply didn't put it together as well. I can totally see Nolan's films working as full graphic novels like Batman Year One or The Long Halloween. On the other hand, none of the previous Batman films could work as graphic novels. They're just too barebones on plot.

TDK is like The Long Halloween while B'89 is like The Man Who Laughs. One is a long and epic wonderfully written masterpiece while the other is just a short one shot. MWL has some terrific moments that I love but in the end the story is thin.
 
1) Movie - The Dark Knight
2) Director - Christopher Nolan
3) Batman - Christian Bale
4) Joker - Heath Ledger
5) Sound Track - Danny Elfman
6) Woman friend - Kim Basinger
7) Alfred - Michael Caine
 
1. The Dark knight
2. Christopher Nolan
3. Michael Keaton
4. Heath Ledger
5. Hans Zimmer/James Newton Howard
6. Kim Basinger
7. Michael Gough
Co-sign

I dislike Nolan's vision of Batman, specifically of the character of Batman, but I cannot deny that The Dark Knight as a film is stronger and better. I look at Nolan's world similar to the way I view Singer's take on X-Men; it doesn't feel like the comics, but it doesn't exclude it from being a good film on it's own merits. If I'd never heard of Batman, or didn't care much how his material was adapted I'd like Nolan's movies as much as most others did. I think there is a difference between a good adaptation and a good film.

Ghost Rider was a strong adaptation, but an awful film. So was the first (the unreleased) Fantastic Four. Both dreadful movies. Nolan does a hell of a job with creating atmosphere and tone, good pacing, and delivers adaquate performances out of his casts. He doesn't necessarily do a good job translating the comics and the characters to screen. I think his insistence on "realism" demystifies and dumbs down a lot of the uniqueness of Batman and his rogues. Specifically Batman though.
 
Why does so many people prefer alfred´s character from the tim burton film?
I foundd the one from the dark knight much more interesting, and the alfred from the comics may have been quiet but he was in the usa army and an expert in medicine.
 
Michael Gough is extremely lovable.
 
He didn´t seem very lovable for me, i found Michael Kane much more loveable,
another character i must point to was Gary Oldman´s Gordon, he was much better in Nolan´s series than in Burton´s possibly because in the nolan series he doesn´t seem a lazy donut eating police.
 
2. Nolan
3. Keaton
4. Ledger
5. Elfman
6. Maggie Gyllenhaal
7. Michael Gough

As for what film I prefer, it's a hard question to answer. The Dark Knight is technically the better film by far, but B89 did SO much more for Batman the character and was a MUCH better adaptation of Batman's dark and brooding nature and the world that he inhabits. And, despite being a great movie, The Dark Knight is very much a modern crime drama. You could watch other films, and they could FEEL like the Dark Knight - even Inception has shades of it. But I've always been in love with B89's cinematography and art direction. Few movies capture the dark, grim noir landscape like B89 does. And it's something I've never quite seen successfully replicated. So it's a draw for me, really.
 
He didn´t seem very lovable for me, i found Michael Kane much more loveable,
As you made obvious in your first post. Your opinion doesn't need to be the multiple man, holmes. :up:
 
You shouldn't succumb to peer pressure.
 
That's not a good idea. It's also poorly spelled. So good job, I'm now more likely to value your opinion.
 
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!! Somebody values my opinion, hehehehehe
bwahahahahahaha
I won, i have now a valid opinion yeah
 
In a weird way Michael Gough really made the original Bat-franchise for me. Even when I was a kid, while recasting Batman didn't bother me, the idea of recasting Alfred did. Michael Gough really embodied the comic book Alfred in ways Michael Caine doesn't, and he's a much more fatherly figure.
 
I agree with quite a bit on both of you. O Prime, the comparison to Singer's X-Men is a good one and I agree. I think I like Nolan a bit more than you because you said you dislike his vision. I like his vision, it's simply not my favorite. I definitely prefer Burton's art direction which was like the brooding atmospheric world of The Long Halloween- gargoyles and decaying landscapes to boot. I like Nolan because he's really good at characterization, but with the realistic feel I always think of his work as elsewhere tales which simply presents an alternate take on Batman. For that reason, I fully accept what he does and quite like it. But indeed, he lacks far too many elements of what I consider "vintage Batman." Nolan gives us a Scarecrow with only a mask, he looks like a businessman with a potato sack on his head as opposed to what Scarecrow usually looks like. Ledger was brilliant but once again Nolan very much limited the villain in terms of what he is in the comics(like the lack of acid flower, Joker venom, perm-white, etc) Like CCon said, it's the gothic atmosphere that makes Batman'89(tho my favorite designed batman movie is Returns). Nolan is missing the noir aspects but is brilliant with his scripting and themes.

Burton- visuals
Nolan- screenplay

Oh and I absolutely loved Michael Gough because he has such a warm personality, I really like Caine as well and it's hard saying why I prefer Gough, I just do. And Gough was just as terrific in all of the others as well.
 
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1.) Movie - The Dark Knight.
2.) Director - Christopher Nolan
3.) Batman - Michael Keaton, but I like Christian Bale's Bruce Wayne more.
4.) Joker - Heath Ledger.
5.) Sound Track - Hans Zimmer/James Newton Howard!!
6.) Woman friend - Neither to be honest...
7.) Alfred - Michael Caine.
 
I agree with quite a bit on both of you. Spawn, the comparison to Singer's X-Men is a good one and I agree. I think I like Nolan a bit more than you because you said you dislike his vision. I like his vision, it's simply not my favorite. I definitely prefer Burton's art direction which was like the brooding atmospheric world of The Long Halloween- gargoyles and decaying landscapes to boot. I like Nolan because he's really good at characterization, but with the realistic feel I always think of his work as elsewhere tales which simply presents an alternate take on Batman. For that reason, I fully accept what he does and quite like it. But indeed, he lacks far too many elements of what I consider "vintage Batman." Nolan gives us a Scarecrow with only a mask, he looks like a businessman with a potato sack on his head as opposed to what Scarecrow usually looks like. Like CCon said, it's the gothic atmosphere that makes Batman'89(tho my favorite designed batman movie is Returns). Nolan is missing the noir aspects.

Burton- visuals
Nolan- screenplay

Oh and I absolutely loved Michael Gough because he has such a warm personality, I really like Caine as well and it's hard saying why I prefer Gough, I just do. And Gough was just as terrific in all of the others as well.
__________________
Hey wait a secound, i never said i prefered burton´s art direction, i actually prefer nolan´s one because it is more realistic and is for me more of what the comic is, i think that you were confunded me for another guy, i prefer Nolan ones a lot possibly because it was Batman Begins that made me read Batman comics, but you possibly prefer the old alfred because you grew up more with him.
 
OMG sorry about the confusion, I meant I agreed with Optimus Prime, not original Spawn.
 
I agree with quite a bit on both of you. O Prime, the comparison to Singer's X-Men is a good one and I agree. I think I like Nolan a bit more than you because you said you dislike his vision. I like his vision, it's simply not my favorite. I definitely prefer Burton's art direction which was like the brooding atmospheric world of The Long Halloween- gargoyles and decaying landscapes to boot. I like Nolan because he's really good at characterization, but with the realistic feel I always think of his work as elsewhere tales which simply presents an alternate take on Batman.
I kind of agree with this. Although I think many of Nolan's characters are very weak. The thing is though, with Burton, Batman was a strong character, Alfred was a strong character, Joker was great, Vicky Vale was adaquate and the rest were just kind of there. With Nolan, his movies had several characters, and all of them at least had something to do. You don't have a case of Pat Hingle "James Gordon" where an otherwise intergral character just becomes a kind of comic relief with little to no impact on the story.
For that reason, I fully accept what he does and quite like it.
I can watch it, and enjoy it, but unlike Burton, I find myself wanting more changes to bring it closer to the book. Burton isn't perfect to me by any stretch, it's just that when I watch his at times I go "wow, that's just like the comic" and with Nolan that never happens.
But indeed, he lacks far too many elements of what I consider "vintage Batman." Nolan gives us a Scarecrow with only a mask, he looks like a businessman with a potato sack on his head as opposed to what Scarecrow usually looks like.
This is an excellent example.

For the man who directed Inception I find Nolan's imagination to be fairly limiting on the Batman mythos. Whether he has powers or not Batman is a mythic figure, every bit as mythic as Hercules and Apollo. The more you explain things, such as breaking down the creation of the costume, or making him go through several proto-batcaves, the less impressive and interesting Batman becomes.

Let's rewrite Batman Begins for a moment and instead of having the Bruce Wayne who mopes through life, let's think about how the comic origin would've played out. There is something compelling about a ten year old who upholds a bedtime oath he makes to his dead parents. Nolan's problem was from day one he attempted to make Batman grounded and logical. His Scarecrow is symptomatic of this. Nolan's movies tend to try to answer the question: why should a man fight crime dressed as a Bat. Then he shoehorns all these motivations, whether they be technical aspects of the costume, or romantic feelings or chiding butlers as to why this course of action is Bruce's choice. That's not Batman though!

Batman is meant to be ridiculous, which makes his serious devotion all the more compelling. He's not just fighting a war, he's fighting a war we, the audience, all know is a completely ridiculous for one man to undertake.
 
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!! Somebody values my opinion, hehehehehe
bwahahahahahaha
I won, i have now a valid opinion yeah
I don't know about all that.

I do know while I was gone, someone confirmed that Michael Gough was, indeed, very lovable. So I think we can close this case.
 
1) Movie - Batman '89
2) Director - Both. Burton for B89 and Nolan for Batman Begins
3) Batman - Christian Bale
4) Joker - Jack Nicholson
5) Sound Track - Danny Elfman
6) Woman friend - Kim Basinger
7) Alfred - Michael Gough


Edit:

About the visuals, I think Batman 89 will age better. It is timeless and it doesn't feel like it is set in any particular period. Whereas TDK seems very 00s. I think Batman Begins incorporates both, the manor itself seems quite timeless, as does Arkham. But it also has the modernity, like the Bat mobile and the monorail.
 
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