A great thread and some interesting thoughts about both BF and BR. I just recently watched both movies with director comments playing and I found some interesting insights, if not down right contradictions from Schumacher's own reflections. I truly feel inclined to make more references to B&R because besides the film being impossibly bad, I thought the director completely copped out on his reasoning for the film's direction. If ever there is a textbook example of passing the blame for a franchise killing sequel, this is the one everyone should listen to.
By Schumacher's accounts, Batman and Robin was essentially a vehicle to manufacture toys since the studio directed him to give the film a more "toy-etic" look. Wow. What a revelation...A superhero film inspired to sell toys? Never heard of that (give me a break). He goes on to indicate that toy companies were brought in to more or less be part of the design team for the overall look of the film. Now, after saying all of this, he wants everyone to know he is NOT blaming the studio or anyone else for these decisions (RIGHT). He quickly takes the blame and says he understood the film he was making but felt he was still recognizing key storylines and paying proper respect to the character and supporting cast. A fair explanation from his perspective... or is it?
With this overview firmly in place the film is only twenty minutes old and that's when the truth of how he really feels begins to show itself. Virtually every scene that he describes is all but mocked and joked about. "Ew! Robin is walking into Ivy's lair. Aren't you scared?" or "These movies are not really about the actors, but more about the costumes." After about an hour of condescending comments like this you begin to realize that Schumacher truly has little respect for the source material or the fans that follow it. He says he takes responsibility for the movie and even apologizes at one point, yet repeatedly references the decisions of others that influenced the look, thereby reducing the blame from himself. He then takes a personal shot at anyone who didn't like the film by saying, "For those of you who believe our careers were destroyed by this picture, I can assure you we all went on to bigger and better things, inspite of this." It's truly the last nail in the coffin regarding his feeling about the character and fans.
Those remarks truly anchor themselves back to Batman Forever, because with that film, director and cast were having to pay a degree of respect to the Keaton films, plus the studio and vendors were less enthusiastic about the possible fortunes of that installment, so his overall expression was not on display. With B&R he had complete say with it's direction and I think that really says it all for both films. His treatment, those comments, and this underlying disregard for the source material are all on display in both pictures. It clearly explains the dumbed down dialog like "I want a car! Chicks dig the car!" or "I'm tired of living under your shadow. I want my own signal! I want a Robin signal!" It doesn't take alot of insight to hear lines like that, let alone read them on paper to understand neither the director or writer were concerned with the IQ of their audience. Comments by both director and writer clearly reveal their only concern was provocative outfits, big overlit sets, and a uncommon reliance on neon paint to cover cheap sets. Big, dumb, and loud was their scheme. History has shown they got away with it once, but paid dearly and permanently the second time around.
In closing I truly think Burton had made a much better film than audiences gave him credit when he delivered Batman Returns. Audiences may not have been ready for the dark, disturbed vision that he gave to the villians, but in retrospect it fits them very well by today's standards. From many accounts Batman Returns has found a sizable audience over time and is now considered a favorite in the series. The success of 'Batman Forever' was nothing more than a knee jerk reaction from the unexpected dark themes found in Returns. Audiences went to an opposite extreme to balance the taste left from the previous installment...and they got it. But as time has passed, it's substance that survives and that's why Forever and B&R are seen as the same film, even though one enjoyed some box office success while the other delivered a lesson this franchise and many others have paid close attention to - RESPECT THE MATERIAL. Is it any accident that the next film in this series was entitled, "Batman Begins" to reassure audiences, it has no affiliation with it's predecessor?
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