Batman Forever gets unfairly paired with Batman and Robin

[Nightwing1983]

Hear me on this:

Whenever people talk about the Schumacher films, they always talk about how crappy and lame they were.

Of course,that assertion is true for Batman and Robin.

However, Batman Forever was so much a better film. Sure, it was still campy and all but it was entertaining and a box office success (for those who even remember the summer of '95).

I just think that it gets a bad rap because of Batman and Robin and that's just unfair.

I agree totally. I thought Val Kilmer was great, and I don't think it was any "campier" than just a standard superhero film (e.g. Superman: the Movie, Spider-Man and Iron Man) which might not be so great in some peoples' minds, but Batman can operate that way in my opinion. To me, it was just a '90s interperitation of the Dick Sprang Batman in a way.

And really, there were "dark" moments such as both his and Robin's parents' deaths. I found the pacing better than in the first film and the story about Riddler inventing a device to read peoples' minds better than in the earlier films.

It's not perfect by any stretch, but it's so unfair how people treat what was the 2nd biggest film of 1995.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I'm with you.

 

[zeptron]

Speaking of Batman Forever I just read that Rene Russo was originally considered for Chase Meridian but they thought she was too old to play Kilmer's love interest. This doesn't make any sense. She's only five years older than him and Kidman is eight years younger.

 

[david icke]

Speaking of Batman Forever I just read that Rene Russo was originally considered for Chase Meridian but they thought she was too old to play Kilmer's love interest. This doesn't make any sense. She's only five years older than him and Kidman is eight years younger.

It makes sense in Hollywood terms as older men are usually paired with younger woman when there is an age difference, whereas it being the other way around is a rare thing indeed. In fact if it happens it's because the plot revolves around it being such an unusual thing. Men run Hollywood btw.

 

[union_jak]

Speaking of Batman Forever I just read that Rene Russo was originally considered for Chase Meridian but they thought she was too old to play Kilmer's love interest. This doesn't make any sense. She's only five years older than him and Kidman is eight years younger.

She was set to be Keaton's love interest but when Kilmer took over, she wasn't deemed a suitable match.

 

[Mr. Earle]

She's ugly anyway. Good thing they got Kidman.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Forever would have been better if they could have gotten a waaay better joker...i mean two-face and maybe toned Jim carrey down a bit.

 

[El Payaso]

Forever would have been better if they could have gotten a waaay better joker...i mean two-face and maybe toned Jim carrey down a bit.

Way better Joker?

 

[The Joker]

Well, that is who Two Face and Riddler were acting like

 

[zeptron]

Tommy Lee Jones probably could have made a great Two-Face if the character was written like he was supposed to be.

 

[El Payaso]

Tommy Lee Jones probably could have made a great Two-Face if the character was written like he was supposed to be.

Absolutely.

But then again if Keaton said No to BF because of a little camp, Tommy Lee Jones could have done the same because of his embarrassing role. I mean, even if you ignore that BF's Two Face has nothing to do with the original TLJ acting was extraordinarily bad.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Batman Forever has some good elements to it, especially with regard to Bruce Wayne. The characterization of Two-Face was an abomination. Carrey did a great job as the Riddler but the campier version of the Riddler is not my preferred version of it. I think Carrey and TLJ both could have done a great job with darker versions of those characters. They've proven their acting chops in serious films plenty of times IMHO.

 

[Team Andino]

I'm "OK" with everything in Batman Forever with the exception of how Two-Face was handled. Tommy Lee Jones is a great actor an could of done some good things for the character but no that wasn't allowed. Imagine Aaron Eckhart acting like a goofy idiot an jumping around

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I love Batman Forever, it's extremely watchable and entertaining. It has a hell of a lot of story (five characters, four with dual identities) and explores themes of revenge, duality and obsession. It ties every character and plot line together at the end visually, with the Chase or Robin deathtrap for Batman. This alone is a piece of genius for a movie based on a comic, so much so Spider-Man copied it years later.

The camp elements are often emphasises, but they are only apparent in Carrey and Jones' scenes. Kilmer's Bruce broods more than any other - he is constantly seen looking troubled, sitting in the dingy, shadowy Wayne Manor.

And Robin's story is dark. No way around it. A kid loses his parents and is consumed by grief and rage and the desire to kill the culprit. And Batman tells him what happens if he does so....possibly the darkest element in any Batman movie. "You go out onto the street to find another face, and another....until revenge becomes your whole life." Superb. Those scenes in the Batcave with Bruce trying to stop Dick embracing the darkness are genuinely as good as any telling of the Robin origin in the comic or or TV.

Of course, the true shame is that Forever was chopped down from the original version and lost it's real heart and purpose. You can see some deleted scenes on the 2005 DVD thank goodness. Also please read Peter David's wonderful novelisation to get the full picture. I honestly think Joel Schumacher, if he does a director's cut, can turn this into one of the best comicboook movies ever. The potential is there.

This is how Forever should have started:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiK2z_E_BBY

Nolan's movies go into the practicality and morality of Batman, Forever (originally) explored the psychological reasons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEGl8FJ99sg

 

[Chris Wallace]

THe first clip has been pulled.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

It's there now.

 

[zeptron]

Not anymore.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Weird, I am literally watching it now....

 

[Chris Wallace]

On the same link?

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

maybe it's blocked in your country? I know some youtube videos do that..

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Anyway, there is a lot of darkness to Forever....

The stuff between Bruce and Dick, and the latter's anger and grief combined with Bruce's attempted guidance is very well done. Unlike in the next movie, being a superhero is not portrayed as a good path to take. Bruce is presented as almost damned, and Chase describes Batman as a life of nightly torture. Bruce tries to save Dick from the same. They even mention that Batman has taken a life and the consequences. Kilmer's performance of a man trapped in an endless pursuit of vengeance is something none of the other Batman movies have given us yet.

The Riddler's obsession with Bruce Wayne is superb. He idolises him, is knocked back by him, then he tries to become him. Look at the Nygma party - he is literally trying to be more Bruce Wayne than Bruce himself. Then at the climax, he does become Bruce Wayne - and everything that entails, including the nightmare of the giant bat. So in the epilogue Edward is locked in Arkham really thinking he is Batman. Now that is dark.