Batman OYL discussion thread

[TheCorpulent1]

Ugh. What a stupid, stupid development. Too bad it'll mar what was otherwise a great arc.

It occurs to me that there seems to be a curse on the Bat-family going around. First Jones turns Nightwing into a horrible comic, then Beechen royally screws Batgirl over, now Robinson's boned Tim outside of his own comic. Great time to be a Batman fan; not so good to be a fan of his related characters.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Tim's never going to become Batman. That's a pipe dream that assumes WB would be stupid enough to let DC ruin one of their biggest franchises' recognizability.

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

to be honest with you corp, WB has no control over what DC does with it's comics. its in a contract, that the WB, has a hands off policy.

and i think as the each generation goes on the batman is bruce wayne recognizability is going to reach a point, where tim( if he's still alive by that time) could take the mantle of the bat.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Right, because Dick never reached a level of recognizability in 60 years where he could take over.

I'm not sure about any legality involving Warner Brothers and DC, but the major characters generally seem to stay recognizable no matter what, with only temporary changes at best. I doubt they'll deviate from that anytime soon.

 

[warren_sparta27]

Ugh. What a stupid, stupid development. Too bad it'll mar what was otherwise a great arc.

It occurs to me that there seems to be a curse on the Bat-family going around. First Jones turns Nightwing into a horrible comic, then Beechen royally screws Batgirl over, now Robinson's boned Tim outside of his own comic. Great time to be a Batman fan; not so good to be a fan of his related characters.

ok i'll agree with you on the Nightwing thing
and yes Batgirl did get screwed, but it was pretty easy to see it coming.
but Robinson boning Tim in this arc, i don't think so, it was predictable, but in my eyes a good move by DC.

 

[Kevin]

you see this? THIS!! these three pages may get me to start collecting Batman. when does the next issue come out?

 

[roach]

Bruce adopting Tim is bad why????

 

[sinewave]

Ugh. What a stupid, stupid development. Too bad it'll mar what was otherwise a great arc.

It occurs to me that there seems to be a curse on the Bat-family going around. First Jones turns Nightwing into a horrible comic, then Beechen royally screws Batgirl over, now Robinson's boned Tim outside of his own comic. Great time to be a Batman fan; not so good to be a fan of his related characters.

I think you're being overly critical here, Corp. I agree with you on Nightwing and somewhat on Cass, although I believe that will be "fixed" eventually. I don't see what's so bad about Tim being adopted by Bruce, though.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

There are a number of reasons. It's unnecessary, it's been established that Tim doesn't want to be adopted by Bruce, it's been done before with both Nightwing and Jason Todd, it's a blatant move to make Tim basically a clone of the previous Robins for familiarity's sake (same as Gordon and Bullock's reinstatement and the utter erasure of everyone associated with Gotham Central, but that's a whole other rant). Take your pick.

 

[sinewave]

There are a number of reasons. It's unnecessary, it's been established that Tim doesn't want to be adopted by Bruce, it's been done before with both Nightwing and Jason Todd, it's a blatant move to make Tim basically a clone of the previous Robins for familiarity's sake (same as Gordon and Bullock's reinstatement and the utter erasure of everyone associated with Gotham Central, but that's a whole other rant). Take your pick.

I don't see how this lessens Tim as a character. I think you might be reading too much into it.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That's nice. I don't. It's an unnecessary move to make Tim more identifiable with previous Robins, plus they already dealt with this story angle and passed on it. Now Tim comes off like an immature clod who can't stand by his decisions.

 

[sethcohen]

that was over a year ago though... hes also since lost his best friend and is no doubt feeling very much alone... his mind may very well have changed... he also spent the last year with bruce and dick traveling the world and training and they have no doubt become closer, and maybe with all of that, tim started to want to be adopted but didnt know how to say so...

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

wow, thats not what im getting at all corps. it shows how lonely he is and how he needs someone to look up to. everyone he's loved has been buried and he has no one. before this issue he looked at bats as more of a partner, but that moment in this new issue finally gave tim a relief of having to bear all this himself. you can tell he was hurting inside, even in the titans book you could tell. the pages shows just how much he neede someone, a family and bruce showed how much of a dick he isnt anymore. there's nothing immature about it.

 

[sinewave]

That's nice. I don't. It's an unnecessary move to make Tim more identifiable with previous Robins, plus they already dealt with this story angle and passed on it. Now Tim comes off like an immature clod who can't stand by his decisions.

Eh, to each his own. I don't have as cynical a take on the situation. I've got no problem with it. I take more offense at having Tim try and sneak into a police station in uniform while he's public enemy number one, rather than employing a disguise and just strolling in, like I'm sure Batman would have taught him. That to me shows more disresepect for the character than having his newly compassionate mentor make an effort to prove his devotion to him and their cause. Batman's a new man and is finally treating Tim as an equal, maybe that's why Tim had a change of heart on the adoption issue.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

that was over a year ago though... hes also since lost his best friend and is no doubt feeling very much alone... his mind may very well have changed... he also spent the last year with bruce and dick traveling the world and training and they have no doubt become closer, and maybe with all of that, tim started to want to be adopted but didnt know how to say so...

Aw, that's sweet. Still lame, but sweet.

wow, thats not what im getting at all corps. it shows how lonely he is and how he needs someone to look up to. everyone he's loved has been buried and he has no one. before this issue he looked at bats as more of a partner, but that moment in this new issue finally gave tim a relief of having to bear all this himself. you can tell he was hurting inside, even in the titans book you could tell. the pages shows just how much he neede someone, a family and bruce showed how much of a dick he isnt anymore. there's nothing immature about it.

He has a family. If Beechen didn't suck, he might actually work on some development between Tim and his stepmother rather than just forgetting about her entirely in favor of raping Batgirl. Bruce is fine as a mentor to Tim. There's no need to rehash the Batman/Robin father/son relationship yet again. Tim was stronger than that. He'd lost everything and was determined to never let himself become like Bruce. Now he's basically just caving in and accepting his predestined role as the heir to both Batman and Bruce until it becomes stale for a third time and someone either kills him off and starts fresh with a new Robin (who'll inevitably just retread the same goddamn path as those before) or bumps him up to his own identity like Dick or does both like Jason.

 

[Darthphere]

Thanks for posting goddamn pages when the rest of us havent read the comic yet. I dont mind spoilers but I hate to see actual pages.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He probably did it just to piss you off, Phere. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't take that unless I were some kind of *****. I'd kick his ass for that. But hey, that's just me.

 

[sinewave]

He has a family. If Beechen didn't suck, he might actually work on some development between Tim and his stepmother rather than just forgetting about her entirely in favor of raping Batgirl. Bruce is fine as a mentor to Tim. There's no need to rehash the Batman/Robin father/son relationship yet again. Tim was stronger than that. He'd lost everything and was determined to never let himself become like Bruce. Now he's basically just caving in and accepting his predestined role as the heir to both Batman and Bruce until it becomes stale for a third time and someone either kills him off and starts fresh with a new Robin (who'll inevitably just retread the same goddamn path as those before) or bumps him up to his own identity like Dick or does both like Jason.

The thing is, though, Bruce has changed since Tim made that decision. Tim didn't want to be a cold, distant prick like Bruce used to be. Now that Bruce is more open and less dark, Tim doesn't feel the need to shy away from him as much. He's not necessarily caving in and accepting a predestined role as heir to the Batman mantle. That hasn't even been discussed in the comics recently so there's nothing to base that on. I do agree that his stepmom has been ignored. I'm don't know how close their relationship was before Tim's dad died, but they should at least acknowledge the fact that she's still around, even if he's chosen not to be an active part of her life.

One thing about this adoption thing has kinda been troubling me, though. Wouldn't a reasonably intelligent person be able to determine that Bruce is Batman, Tim is Robin and Dick is Nightwing, based on the fact that Bruce adopted both of those young, athletic men? Come on, it's not like Tim and Dick's masks are that concealing. There's got to be plenty of pictures of those three available to the public in each of their personas. I would think a decent investigative journalist would be able to gather those pictures, compare them and determine their identities. It's kinda silly. I guess that's where suspension of disbelief comes into play.

 

[Darthphere]

He probably did it just to piss you off, Phere. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't take that unless I were some kind of *****. I'd kick his ass for that. But hey, that's just me.

Dont worry I will.



And Corp, seriously Bruce adopting Tim isnt as bad as youre making it you whiny baby.

 

[Darthphere]

The thing is, though, Bruce has changed since Tim made that decision. Tim didn't want to be a cold, distant prick like Bruce used to be. Now that Bruce is more open and less dark, Tim doesn't feel the need to shy away from him as much. He's not necessarily caving in and accepting a predestined role as heir to the Batman mantle. That hasn't even been discussed in the comics recently so there's nothing to base that on. I do agree that his stepmom has been ignored. I'm don't know how close their relationship was before Tim's dad died, but they should at least acknowledge the fact that she's still around, even if he's chosen not to be an active part of her life.

One thing about this adoption thing has kinda been troubling me, though. Wouldn't a reasonably intelligent person be able to determine that Bruce is Batman, Tim is Robin and Dick is Nightwing, based on the fact that Bruce adopted both of those young, athletic men? Come on, it's not like Tim and Dick's masks are that concealing. There's got to be plenty of pictures of those three available to the public in each of their personas. I would think a decent investigative journalist would be able to gather those pictures, compare them and determine their identities. It's kinda silly. I guess that's where suspension of disbelief comes into play.

The vibrate really fast....oh wait that was Superman nevermind.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

A reasonably intelligent person wouldn't just be able to figure it out, one already has. His name is Tim Drake.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

And Corp, seriously Bruce adopting Tim isnt as bad as youre making it you whiny baby.

Yeah, I'll make a note of that whenever I decide to start listening to *****es' opinions. Kal-El 8's ass still seems firmly unkicked from where I'm sitting. *****.

 

[sinewave]

The vibrate really fast....oh wait that was Superman nevermind.

Is that the excuse for Supes maintaining his secret identity? I guess that makes more sense than just throwing on glasses, combing his hair different and slouching.

 

[Darthphere]

Yeah, I'll make a note of that whenever I decide to start listening to *****es' opinions. Kal-El 8's ass still seems firmly unkicked from where I'm sitting. *****.

Look, hes really fast and im fat, I need to stop and catch my breath....I think im having a heart attack....wait. Man this is hurting.

 

[Darthphere]

Is that the excuse for Supes maintaining his secret identity? I guess that makes more sense than just throwing on glasses, combing his hair different and slouching.

It was at one point.