Batman Returns vs Batman Forever?

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Nobody ever seems to pull of Michelle's Catwoman suit in cosplay...

I wish I could say your wrong but your absolutely right

 

[Joker831]

Batman Returns is by far the better movie. While it gets way more Burton'ish then the first Batman (which btw, blended Burton's style with an actual urban city perfectly...still the best movie Gotham to date)..it still holds up very well and a great expierence with a wicked cast (DeVito, Michelle, Walken, Keaton).

While not an overall perfect movie obviously, it has stellar parts that are so memorable. It's rare sometimes...but it does happen, to have movies that aren't great as a whole but have awesome scenes you wish you could pluck and put into other movies (like maybe Nolan's triology). The whole first half of the movie is pretty good, Shreck's fake nice guy, Penguins gang taking over, Selina/Batman's first introduction, etc etc. Michael Keaton is quite good as bumbling Bruce Wayne in this, esp when meeting Selina. Keaton coulda been just as good as Bale if he got as much screen time as Bruce as Bale has had IMO.

While I want to see a regular mob boss Penguin, this was a nice take on it. He has some friggin classic lines lol "Things Change", "Just made im a genuine freak and you have to wear a mask", "When it all comes down to it, who's holding the umbrella?"

That's another thing about Burton's Batman movies that are HIGHLY underrated and that's the dialogue. Best Batman movie dialogue in B89 and BR.

But back on track, the whole masquerade ball scene...Selina/Bruce's revelation...great stuff. How everyone plays each other in this movie, turning on one another. Great fight scene's between Batman/Catwoman...Schreck is an awesome, prob the best side villain. And c'mon, Christopher Walken in a Batman movie...can't beat that lol. The entire finishing sequence between Batman/Selina and Shreck is AWESOME, as was Keaton when he turns as Penguin is coming once more but picks the wrong umbrella.."i'll murder you momentarily" haha, great stuff. Batman Returns was very very good I just only wish Harvey Dent was in this one as well.



With Batman Forerver, it starts out so promising...TwoFace's first speech. But the movie flies off the rails at times and TwoFace is a complete trainwreck. The thing that pisses me off so much, as someone else pointed out, Tommy Lee Jones would of made one of the best serious Harvey Dent/TwoFace, you just know he could with his track record. I didn't mind Jim Carey, I liked his Riddler...esp when he killed his boss. See'ing Carey now, he coulda also did what he did but been more serious too and prob pull it off great, like Kevin Spacey in Se7en.
And Forever Gotham....just sucks lol.



I really wish we could of seen Burton/Keaton's Batman final chapter. From the rumors I have heard over the years...it would of been epic. Clips of Bruce's early training (similar to Begins but without Ra's)..Harvey's downfall and courtroom acid accident and him becoming TwoFace, taking revenge on all the city officials that failed him (was he rumors of having Billy Dee's Harvey falling apart, being a drunk in Returns). And then Robin Williams as a man obssessed with Batman and proving he's a better thinker then he is...testing him with clues along with murders and robberies. Wouldn't of been a team up, just two seperate threats from what i've read. And perhaps a Selina re-appearence.

Man, what could of been. Just imagine Burton's TwoFace...while I wouldnt mind Tommy Lee Jones still taking it, esp under Burton...I still think Billy Dee woulda been great and this possibly might of kept him in the lime light after Star Wars. And Robin Williams, well...as we've seen him in more serious roles, we know he coulda made a nasty Riddler.

 

[theman]

Forever had much more and much bigger action, incomparably bigger scale, special effects, tons of pretty boys (Kilmer, ODonnel)and poster girls (Kidman, Barrymore), comics (Carrey) and lots of superhero action. Returns was a quiet and very grim and claustrophobic tale of scarred souls, with the most bizarre and surreal humor. Person who liked Returns wont find Forever appealing and vice versa. Theyre just so different that it all depends on personal tastes

yes, they are much different, but lets be fair, Returns still had its epic action moments, though not nearly as much and as often as Forever did. the batmobile being taken over by the penguin is still one of my favorite acton moments of all batman movies. rocket fireing penguins blowing sh** up at the end is surreal comic book epicness right there. batman flying over the terrified crowds with bats flying around him and the moon high above him, just iconic imagery. such an awsome vehicle like the batskiboat i feel should have had more screentime, and you just gotta love that strange duck car that penguin drove.

what i also love about Returns is that its straight up classic Film Noir, from the 1940's, from the fashion style to the plot and characters. anyone who's into those old films could see the resemblance. even ebert pointed this out about the film. alot of film noirs, even the best ones like "out of the past" with robert mitchum, have alot in common with Batman Returns. ussually theres 3-4 lead characters, all throughout the films they are interacting with each other, ussually betraying each other, or falling in love with each other, "pairing up" with each other, etc. all ussually part of some crime scheme in a dark, forboding city with lots of shadows and the film ussually takes place at night. does this not sound like Returns? and the ending of the film is ussually how classic film noir ends, usually the "hero" of the piece winds up dieing, or the femme fatale gets shot up or something like that. the "good guys" arent really all that good. Returns has many of these same elements. also though the movie is in color, alot of the scenes are with that creepy black and blue/white hue, giving it an almost black and white look.

in the end though, yes, it wasnt exactly the "blockbuster" that the studio was hopeing for, though it did do well at the BO. i think it wasnt so much the money that was the problem, but the flack that the studio was getting at the time for making such a dark, twisted batman film that many people werent expecting or wanting at the time. flash foward 20 years and people are clamoring for dark batman films. my how times change. however i recently saw on IMDB that the films rateing has gone up considerably, from a 6.2 some years ago to a 7.0. NOT that i judge a film by its imdb rateing, but its always nice to see a film finally getting apperciated on the net. ive always wondered if tim burton was going through some kinda dark phase in his life at the time of making the 2nd film. i heard he was going through a breakup or something, and since he is a highly emotional director, maybe this had an influence on him while making the 2nd film?

i disagree that you cant enjoy both films. i voted for Returns as thats just a brilliant film any way you cut it and much more of a proper "batman" movie, but Forever is still highly enjoyable and fun movie i have memories of growing up watching a million times. screw the flaws, (im not nor ever will be a critic) the movie was fun and OTT and i just thought it was a fun ride. again, it all depends on what mood im in. there is a batman film for every mood pretty much lol. for me Forever was the last truly enjoyable batman movie. B&R is fun for a laugh and super OTT 60's action, but it really bites as a batman movie, and the nolan movies i just could never get into. i prefer batman to be more stylized so the original films is where its at for me.

 

[TheFuture]

I just watched Batman Forever for the first time in a long time and it is just....irritating, that's the best word I can use to describe it. From the tone to the OTT performances to Kidman's annoying "I love me a bad boy" character to both Kilmer and O'Donnell's cringey performances at times, there is very little redeeming about it.

It's a like a child constantly shouting and banging a large drum in your face for 2 hours.

Now time to subject myself to B&R.

 

[theman]

Forever is just fun, its a shame some people cant enjoy it. its a nice more light hearted action movie after the dark journey of Returns. i do find myself watching that one more, to be honest. i would have chosen Forever but the truth is Returns is just a better film, i cant help it. but that doesnt make Forever just suck. it all depends on what mood im in. i love jim carreys riddler, and TLJ was awsome. i just love the movie! cant help. schumacher got more things right for batman, BUT i still think tim burtons are the best. i have a much easier time watching schumachers movies then any of nolans efforts. they are more like the comic books. nolans to me are like elseworlds movies, kind of like a "what if batman was realistic?" scenario. im more into the stylized fantasy of batman. i love how batman just glides with his cape in the schumacher films. they never explain why, but its just so cool. see, things like that i love and appreciate. there doesnt have to be a sper logical reason how and why he floats like that, if he looks cool then i can enjoy it. for me the first 3 batman films got the iconography of batman right. the new movies just look too muddled and the look of batman is akward and the style just doesnt fit batman for me, so its harder for me to enjoy.