BATMAN: Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More

[JLBats]

You can't say that word as a derogative here. I know it was a mistake, but you need to check the rules.

Edit: Actually, I'm not even sure to whom that's directed, since the word is used to describe both people who actually know their comics history and demand better, and people who defend the filmmakers no matter how badly they scrw up. Either way, I stand by my inclusion of that on my "forbidden" word list, regardless of who it's describing, and we don't need the confusion. Just be more careful in the future.

It was refering to those who don't understand Nolan's use of the word "realism" and then defend it by overhyping it, suggesting things like Joker as a smily person with none of his other defining features.

I was under the impression that the banning of the word was mostly due to the fear of some idiot coming in and accusing the people in the thread of being fanboys for supporting fedility to the comics. I used it to attack these people.

 

[kooguy911]

i got an idea. Lets name it Batman: Avenger Of The Night

 

[Herr Logan]

While I understand your comments on some fans jumping way to early to negative conclusions, and in part do agree, you let Nolan of to lightly. For one thing, it was Nolan who originally didn't want The Scarecrow to wear a mask, or in fact a costume at all. Alas, Nolan got his wish for the later, and we were burdened with the rather uninteresting appearence of Crane in a regular business suit. The fans have ever right to be negative towards these movies, not least because of what has gone before as obvious examples of filmmakers incompetance, but also because it usually means they can appreicate the good elements when they see them a whole lot more.

Co-signed.

JLBats does have a point about the fans representing what I hate more than Nolan himself has revealed officially. I thank him for pointing that out.

 

[Herr Logan]

It was refering to those who don't understand Nolan's use of the word "realism" and then defend it by overhyping it, suggesting things like Joker as a smily person with none of his other defining features.

I was under the impression that the banning of the word was mostly due to the fear of some idiot coming in and accusing the people in the thread of being fanboys for supporting fedility to the comics. I used it to attack these people.

I understand, and I appreciate you clearing that up. I still must ask that nobody use that word as a direct derogatory here, regardless of whom its intended to describe. This is nothing personal towards you, and I'm actually glad this came up, since it addresses the unfortunate flexibility of that hated term.

Attacking the anti-source material, pro-needless changes, "In Nolan We Trust," sycophantic studio apologists is A-okay in these threads (within reason, since I didn't create this place as a place to dish out petty Hype-centered vengeance, and we've got better things to do... but an occasional dig won't hurt), but we cannot use the "F-word," as it's confusing.

In any case, I appreciate your original point. My anger towards Nolan & Co. may well be more severe than it ought to be because of his blindly faithful, obsequious (but hostile toward perceived enemies) supporters. Then again, I did hear "small and mysterious" describing the role of Movie!Joker as an official statement from somone on the crew, and that's unforgivable. I've heard plenty else to make me rue this movie. I'm thinking that I won't be breaking my own rules this time and repeat my 4 or 5 trips to the theater for this movie, as I did for 'Batman Begins.'

 

[Zaphod]

I have decided that for 'Batman: Year One', I would have the teaser-trailer be the dinner-party scene from the graphic novel. Even if this scene isn't used in the final movie (which would be a shame if you ask me, since it's one of the greatest parts within 'Year One') I would certainly have it as the trailer; it would play out the same way that the unreleased 'Spider-Man' trailer did, y'know...the one that resembled a heist movie up until the getaway'copter got tangled in those webs between the Twin Towers? Well, that misdirection method made the trailer very cool in my opinion, and I'd go for the same with the 'Year One' trailer. The trailer would begin in the same way, with an extended scene of a dinner party in full throw, so the audience are wondering what is going on, and they're beggining to wonder what sort fo trailer this is. Carmine Falcone and Loeb would show up in a few shots; just when the audience are beggining to get the wrong impression about the trailer, the electricity to the room cuts, and the glare of spotlights pouring in through the windows flash on. As they do, and the bewildered guests look at the source of the light in confusion, we hear a voiceover, yes, 'that speech'. As the voice builds and the guests get even more panic stricken, including Falcone and Loeb who we'd see much of, the huge, encompassing silloheute of The Batman, cape outspread, comes to loom over the guests in the glare of the lights as a massive shadow. Fade out to black, and the classic black bat logo fades onto the screen. TAG LINE: Year One and [unspecified release date].

Thoughts?

In other news, Herr, how do you feel about re-including the Scarecrow into our 'Year One' movie concept, now that a TV sereis is going to be covering the origin? I still uphold the Penguin being included of course, and if Crane was to be back in, I would have Cobblepot's dealings play more cloesly to Crane (he would provide the hired muscle that Crane needs, since no other mobster in their right mind would work in any capacity with Crane, except Penguin of course, and even then it's only providing men for a tidy sum).

 

[Herr Logan]

I have decided that for 'Batman: Year One', I would have the teaser-trailer be the dinner-party scene from the graphic novel. Even if this scene isn't used in the final movie (which would be a shame if you ask me, since it's one of the greatest parts within 'Year One') I would certainly have it as the trailer; it would play out the same way that the unreleased 'Spider-Man' trailer did, y'know...the one that resembled a heist movie up until the getaway'copter got tangled in those webs between the Twin Towers? Well, that misdirection method made the trailer very cool in my opinion, and I'd go for the same with the 'Year One' trailer. The trailer would begin in the same way, with an extended scene of a dinner party in full throw, so the audience are wondering what is going on, and they're beggining to wonder what sort fo trailer this is. Carmine Falcone and Loeb would show up in a few shots; just when the audience are beggining to get the wrong impression about the trailer, the electricity to the room cuts, and the glare of spotlights pouring in through the windows flash on. As they do, and the bewildered guests look at the source of the light in confusion, we hear a voiceover, yes, 'that speech'. As the voice builds and the guests get even more panic stricken, including Falcone and Loeb who we'd see much of, the huge, encompassing silloheute of The Batman, cape outspread, comes to loom over the guests in the glare of the lights as a massive shadow. Fade out to black, and the classic black bat logo fades onto the screen. TAG LINE: Year One and [unspecified release date].

Thoughts?

Excellent!

Yeah, that's definitely a perfect teaser for this movie.

In other news, Herr, how do you feel about re-including the Scarecrow into our 'Year One' movie concept, now that a TV sereis is going to be covering the origin? I still uphold the Penguin being included of course, and if Crane was to be back in, I would have Cobblepot's dealings play more cloesly to Crane (he would provide the hired muscle that Crane needs, since no other mobster in their right mind would work in any capacity with Crane, except Penguin of course, and even then it's only providing men for a tidy sum).

That sounds fine, as long as the Scarecrow is 100% real Scarecrow (i.e., in costume, in character, merely working at Arkham Asylum (instead of running it) and ranting about being the God of Fear and swinging a long-handled scythe, etc.). That, I am perfectly amenable to.
If this is the case, should we use my idea of Bruce Wayne's party being sabotaged with fear toxin in the drinks, where Bruce notices a strange face among the caterers/waiters and follows him to the Scarecrow, leading to his freak-out, defeat and brief detox?

I want to stick close to the story of Miller's 'Year One,' but I do want to expand and add on as we have been. I want Harvey Dent's role to be expanded from what it is in 'Year One' and actually show the Batman talking with him a couple of times (in the book he was merely hiding under Harvey's desk while Gordon was grilling Dent under the suspicion that he was the Batman, and Harvey said he could come out when Gordon was gone; there were other moments where it was heavily implied that the Batman and Dent were working together). I think it should be emphasized that the Batman approached and formed a working relationship with Dent first and Gordon second, and they were sneaking around behind Gordon's back for a while. The reason for this, in the comics and this movie, is that Dent is more open to "bending the rules" than Gordon is, and the Batman sensed that right off.
I even have some thoughts on the scene where Gordon is asking Dent where he was between certain hours of certain nights and what he knows about the Batman, and pointing out how interesting it is that he's got a set of heavy weights in his office. Harvey Dent would be charming and smart-ass about it all, remarking that he believes the Batman is a snappy dresser, has immaculate posture and excellent grammar (which will be true in the movie), etc.

Despite the earlier, closer relationship between the Batman and Dent, I do want to change things around a little and have the Batman approach Gordon instead of leaving it like Miller's graphic novel, where Gordon and the Batman have a meeting scheduled at the very, very end with no explanation for how that happened. They never exchanged any real words with each other at all (except for shouting in the street at the beginning of the big police chase, if that's even the case) during that story. That's one big change I'd put in, but I want to keep the fact that Dent and he were working together and dodging Gordon first.

Thoughts? I don't remember if I mentioned that stuff before. If I have, just ignore it.

 

[Herr Logan]

Just to reiterate my idea for a Movie!Riddler portrayal:

I would have The Riddler wear a green suit and bowler hat, and while I would indeed go with the question marks all over the green of his general dress, I would abort the purple eye mask for purple tinted lenses, simply because it fits in far better with how I would portray The Riddler in my movies.

You see, The Riddler to me is extremely arrogant, and rather than shieding his persona from the public (which an eye mask, as opposed to lenses, would suggest) he wants to advertise his actions. This may sound like The Joker, but the key difference is that while both characters are flamboyant to a degree, the Joker being a freakin' loon, the Riddler advetisises himself much differently. It would Nygma's Riddles, not his general persona, that he wants Gotham and the authroties to take heed of. Initially, I would have The Riddler as a right hand man to a mob boss in a movie where he first appears; the crime lord in question is using the Riddler as a means of sending authorites chasing down blind alleys, aswell as the Batman, which would infact make more sense since by now the Batman has proved himself a threat to anyone in the crime game, and the Riddler would be much sort after as a means of diverting away the Bat's attention.

In fact, I quite like the idea of the underworld vying for control of Nygma's services, with The Riddler more intellgent than the lot of them and with ability to have them all succumb to him through one big Riddle if he so wished. Another aspect to the Riddlers character I would introduce is to make him into a 'human lie-detector' he would be well versed in 'the riddles of the human body' as he would call them. Whenever an interrogation wasn't turning up answers, the Riddler would simply be called in by his boss to read the pup who isn't squealing!

The Riddler needs to be one seriously dark, nasty, creepy, but yet flamboyant character. I really feel he has potential for a Bat-Movie, even on par with the likes of Joker and Two Face (the latter of who I woul like to be in a movie with the Riddler, although not as partners like in 'Forever' of course). I would of course include scenes of Riddler being at the scene of one of his crime in process, since he is an arrogant bastard who seldom fears seriously being caught due to his seering intelligence and use of riddles.

Thoughts? Sorry if that was all slightly out of order, I'm scatterbrained at the moment and it's late.

This all sounds great. I'm assuming he'll also have his patented Question Mark cane at hand, possibly having been integrated with weaponry by the Penguin's people.

When you say he needs to be "one seriously dark, nasty, creepy, yet flamboyant character," I hope you don't mean you'd want us to push the brutality factor and make him something worse than he's been in the comics. If anything, Riddler should be a "relief" villain, not as in "comic relief," but as in someone who isn't as emotionally draining and horrific as Two-Face and not as psychotic and murderous as the Joker. I mean as in someone the Batman would allow Robin to confront within his first year of training.
If Riddler's in the same movie as Two-Face, I think there ought to be a little bit of "lightness" in contrast to Two-Face's story. I don't mean silliness (anymore than is necessary to even feature a Batman villain, anyway) or unrestricted levity, I mean a piece of the movie where the viewer isn't constantly thinking "What would I do if one of my only real friends turned crazy and I had to stop him... would I let him kill that mobster?" etc. I mean something not as dark, is all. Jim Carey was brilliant in the role that was written for him in 'Batman Forever' (the same cannot be said for anyone in 'Batman & Robin,' unfortunately, even allowing for bad writing), but even for a callback to the Silver Age, there was something a little... off... and regardless, that level of zaniness and camp isn't right for the general tone that you and I are going for. That doesn't mean he can't be silly at times, or even that "darker" villains can't, but it's a delicate balance that takes real thought to construct properly.




In other news:

Cullen has put in his two cents on Clayface, saying that if it isn't a monstrous shapeshifter, then there shouldn't be a Clayface at all. I'm personally keeping an open mind to the earlier incanation of Basil Karlo, the crazed actor who had no superpowers but was still a dangerous murderer. Karlo was a classic horror movie actor (you can see a resemblance in the name to another famous monster movie actor) who had starred in a movie called 'Clayface.' When he heard they were making a remake, he snapped, donned the mask of the movie's villain and embarked on a spree killing of the cast and crew.

I demand that there be at the very, very least, a cameo mention of a remake of the movie 'Clayface' in one of the movies, possibly playing at the Monarch Theater if Bruce Wayne has it re-opened, or maybe most of the letters of CLAYFACE can be hanging off the dirty marquee of the abandoned theater, having been the last show to play before they closed it down a few weeks after the Wayne murders ended up killing sales.

I think this guy is a perfect candidate for Arkham Asylum. Can't you just see the Joker critiquing his performance, saying that the Clayface creature was moving in its way, but it lacked personality, accessability, and most of all, a sense of humor. Karlo, through gritted teeth, would say, "He's... not... that... kind... of... villain!!" Heh heh.

You have to admit, if we put in a small sub-plot for the original Clayface, it would be perfectly faithful to the comics without complicating whichever movie it was in, and in the fantasy world where we're co-producers/writers/etc. and giving interviews, you can be damn sure I'd say that the only reason we didn't use a shapeshifter was because I'm not a big fan of those Clayfaces and they require too much development for "minor villain" roles, and that it was never a question of realism.

Thoughts?

 

[Herr Logan]

Aw, man, I can't believe I forgot to say this before, since it was one of my main points...


I think the Riddler should be very didactic (that means "teachy," as in acting like a teacher) and pedantic. He should also be enamored to the point of obsession with crossword puzzles (as in, crosswords is to him as superheroes is to us), so in addition to starting leading questions with the phrase, "Riddle me this" (yes, he must use it at least three times), he should also ask questions of his foes in the way a person would ask for help on a crossword (not that he needs help... again, he's just being condescending in his threats). He also makes up the number and the direction that would be the listing in a real crossword, with it occasionally having meaning.
Example: "6, Down: What's an 8-letter word for someone who doesn't comply when the Riddler asks him for the code to the main vault? Anyone? The answer is 'deceased.'"

I also think we should still use that exploding Rubik's Cube, built by the Penguin (Riddler would have several in stock), given to the Riddler's boss as a gift, and the boss would spend half and hour per day trying to solve the puzzle. Eventually, he does finish it, and when he realizes he's about to, he tells Nygma excitedly, prompting Nygma to excuse himself "to go fetch the boys to witness this momentus occasion," and while he's out of range, BOOM!!

Perhaps The Riddler will force Robin to try and solve one of those things at gunpoint towards the end, and Robin will figure out from the thugs slowly backing up and the quiet whirring noise coming from the Cube as he's on the home stretch that it's a bomb, and he'll pretend that it's stuck and can't go all the way. The bomb is sticking? Sounds like bad news for everyone, potentially. The Riddler and his boys keep backing out, slowly retreating to the exit, and Robin throws the cube at the exit before busting out with an acrobatic fight scene that disarms everyone and leaves the Riddler stuck.

I want the Riddler to have an extreme fondness for the tale of Theseus and the Sphinx, as a cautionary tale. As I remember it, nobody ever solved the Sphinx' riddle, and when Theseus came along and did, the Sphinx killed itself. One must not rest on one's laurels and put all their eggs in one basket, etc. One must be more flexible and resilient. Every defeat is a lesson and an opportunity. See, the Riddler actually would make a great teacher, which is the true tragedy in his story. "If only his brilliance were used for good instead of evil...."

The Riddler should also have one or two of his classic female bodyguards, armed and trained in martial arts, named Quiz, Query and/or Echo. She should be referred to as his "assistant," especially if anyone ever questions him as a civilian about secretly being the Riddler (this would be before he ever shows his face in public as the Riddler). It can be left ambiguous as to whether they're sleeping with him or not, but I'd like to have him read one or both of them (that means two in the same bed, but I'm sure it's completely innocent...) the story of the Sphinx in bed. That last part can be discarded, if you like.

Thoughts?

 

[Zaphod]

Excellent!

Yeah, that's definitely a perfect teaser for this movie.

Thank you! I was in two minds about whether to include it since I remember you saying before that the scene in mention wasn't really Batman's style, and was one of the things which Batman did 'out of character' in Frank Miller's 'Year One'. But since your fine with it as a teaser is this to say we should include it in the final movie? This would be dodging the whole 'urban legend' thing, but that really isn't a bad thing since the Batman wants to be noticed anyway?

That sounds fine, as long as the Scarecrow is 100% real Scarecrow (i.e., in costume, in character, merely working at Arkham Asylum (instead of running it) and ranting about being the God of Fear and swinging a long-handled scythe, etc.). That, I am perfectly amenable to.

I must say I'm offended! Truly! After all the time and effort spent throughout this collaborative effort, and you still beleive me incompetant! Gah!



Of course. The Scarecrow will look and act like the real Scarecrow that the true fans know and love! I've decided that Crane's costume, when that which he wears when fully transformed into the guise of the Scarecrow (which would be for the majority of the movie) should resemble the image in this picture as close as possible, including a Sife as we've already talked about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Batman373.JPG]

If this is the case, should we use my idea of Bruce Wayne's party being sabotaged with fear toxin in the drinks, where Bruce notices a strange face among the caterers/waiters and follows him to the Scarecrow, leading to his freak-out, defeat and brief detox?

Yes .

In the scene where Bruce is poisoned by the 'fear-gas' and suffering the attack by Crane while under it's hallucinogenic properties, I'd have Crane's attacks manifest themselves in Bruce's mind, in part as the 'violent dancing' kung-fu he demonstrated at times in the comics. I remember your idea that Crane would easily take Bruce out with a rake, since by this point the 'fear-gas' has rendered Bruce weak and incapable to fight, and we should still stick with that. But I think it would be a nice nod if we featured some hallucinogen-induced 'violent dancing' visual. If done right, this could come of really bizzare and creepy to see on-screen.

Whenever Bruce is under the effects of the 'fear-gas', we'd see visions of Thomas, Martha Wayne and Leslie lamenting to Bruce that he has disgraced the family name by his actions as Batman, listing the shame they have for their son and that it was Bruce's fault that they were murdered.

I want to stick close to the story of Miller's 'Year One,' but I do want to expand and add on as we have been. I want Harvey Dent's role to be expanded from what it is in 'Year One' and actually show the Batman talking with him a couple of times (in the book he was merely hiding under Harvey's desk while Gordon was grilling Dent under the suspicion that he was the Batman, and Harvey said he could come out when Gordon was gone; there were other moments where it was heavily implied that the Batman and Dent were working together). I think it should be emphasized that the Batman approached and formed a working relationship with Dent first and Gordon second, and they were sneaking around behind Gordon's back for a while. The reason for this, in the comics and this movie, is that Dent is more open to "bending the rules" than Gordon is, and the Batman sensed that right off.

Ah ok. This sounds good. Naturally, of course, Gordan would still play a major part within the movie? Certainly none less than what we saw of him in 'Batman Begins'?

I even have some thoughts on the scene where Gordon is asking Dent where he was between certain hours of certain nights and what he knows about the Batman, and pointing out how interesting it is that he's got a set of heavy weights in his office. Harvey Dent would be charming and smart-ass about it all, remarking that he believes the Batman is a snappy dresser, has immaculate posture and excellent grammar (which will be true in the movie), etc.

This is straight out of the comics, isn't it? Either way, sounds good.

Despite the earlier, closer relationship between the Batman and Dent, I do want to change things around a little and have the Batman approach Gordon instead of leaving it like Miller's graphic novel, where Gordon and the Batman have a meeting scheduled at the very, very end with no explanation for how that happened. They never exchanged any real words with each other at all (except for shouting in the street at the beginning of the big police chase, if that's even the case) during that story. That's one big change I'd put in, but I want to keep the fact that Dent and he were working together and dodging Gordon first.

Yeah, that's something I always had in mind aswell

 

[Herr Logan]

Thank you! I was in two minds about whether to include it since I remember you saying before that the scene in mention wasn't really Batman's style, and was one of the things which Batman did 'out of character' in Frank Miller's 'Year One'. But since your fine with it as a teaser is this to say we should include it in the final movie? This would be dodging the whole 'urban legend' thing, but that really isn't a bad thing since the Batman wants to be noticed anyway?

I think it could go in the movie as well. Most of the Batman's actions should not be as direct as this with multiple witnesses and supposedly "respectable" authority figures, but this one time is okay. If nothing else, people could call it a possible prank by gangsters or... hell, even just bored, delinquent theater techies (because of the floodlights and smoke bomb). I do want him to do the thing where he walks in, lifts up the flambe pan so his face is somewhat visible, and coverers the flames again before disappearing.

I must say I'm offended! Truly! After all the time and effort spent throughout this collaborative effort, and you still beleive me incompetant! Gah!

I didn't mean it!

And I don't mean to be pedantic. I was just angry at the time and was unconsciously directing it at the heathens who'd have him wear a suit and nothing else... the same filthy degenerates who want a "small and mysterious" Joker role with white face paint, sans green hair and without his classic attire and gimmicks. Lowlife scum, they are!!

Of course. The Scarecrow will look and act like the real Scarecrow that the true fans know and love! I've decided that Crane's costume, when that which he wears when fully transformed into the guise of the Scarecrow (which would be for the majority of the movie) should resemble the image in this picture as close as possible, including a Sife as we've already talked about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Batman373.JPG

The link doesn't work. Now I'm stuck here with my curiosity and no freakin' relief for it!!

Sounds good, even if I can't see it.

Yes .

In the scene where Bruce is poisoned by the 'fear-gas' and suffering the attack by Crane while under it's hallucinogenic properties, I'd have Crane's attacks manifest themselves in Bruce's mind, in part as the 'violent dancing' kung-fu he demonstrated at times in the comics. I remember your idea that Crane would easily take Bruce out with a rake, since by this point the 'fear-gas' has rendered Bruce weak and incapable to fight, and we should still stick with that. But I think it would be a nice nod if we featured some hallucinogen-induced 'violent dancing' visual. If done right, this could come of really bizzare and creepy to see on-screen.

Whenever Bruce is under the effects of the 'fear-gas', we'd see visions of Thomas, Martha Wayne and Leslie lamenting to Bruce that he has disgraced the family name by his actions as Batman, listing the shame they have for their son and that it was Bruce's fault that they were murdered.

Absolutely. Even though he barely has need of martial arts in the specific fight, Scarecrow should use his "Dancing" Crane style (I didn't make that up, that's what he uses in the comics, supposedly). I think at first, the Batman should be a good fighter, taking out Scarecrow's thugs with more or less relative ease, and then he starts getting more and more affected. When he sees the Scarecrow's horrific visage (it should look really creepy) his fear kicks into high gear, and though he refuses to back down, he's tentative and not very effective as a fighter. He is able to fend him off at first, but quickly it degenerates into Scarecrow using his amateur Crane fighting moves to knock the Batman around a little, but since the Batman is huge and tough, he feels he might need a rake to really give him a proper beating. Crane isn't weak, but he's nothing like the Batman, and he knows it. Basically, the fighting should start out in normal terms and go straight to hell as soon as the Scarecrow steps in, and then the Batman is left battered and babbling for two days.

Ah ok. This sounds good. Naturally, of course, Gordan would still play a major part within the movie? Certainly none less than what we saw of him in 'Batman Begins'?

Certainly not less. He'll have coverage both on his own (and Flass, both riding with and fighting with), with Sarah Essen and the rest of the GCPD, and then with the Batman and Harvey Dent.

This is straight out of the comics, isn't it? Either way, sounds good.

No, it's not from the comics, but Harvey's smug, devil-may-care attitude toward Gordon and his questions in 'Year One' inspired that kind of dialogue for me. It seemed to fit. If you think it shouldn't be there, let me know.

Yeah, that's something I always had in mind aswell

Good.

 

[Herr Logan]

You guys should check this thread-- which Kame-sennin brought to my attention last night-- from the beginning, but here's my not-the-least-bit humble contribution.

Fight the power of ignorance with the power of arrogance-- uh, I mean knowledge!!

 

[Herr Logan]

Speaking of our favorite "heroic assistant," he's kicking ass on page 2 of a new Blind_Fury warzone, whether those pathetic, insecure sycophants deign to acknowledge it or not.

Rock on, and rock hard.

 

[Beelze]

Is it now official canon that Crane worked at Arkham? Isn't he still supposed to have been a psychology professor at some school, where he tortured students?

 

[kame-sennin]

Speaking of our favorite "heroic assistant," he's kicking ass on page 2 of a new Blind_Fury warzone, whether those pathetic, insecure sycophants deign to acknowledge it or not.

Rock on, and rock hard.

Thanks for the compliment. I actually had to walk away from that battle because they were just flat out ignoring me. I think they started responding to people who agreed with me instead of adressing me directly. However, I think you've inspired me to step once more into the breach!

 

[Herr Logan]

Is it now official canon that Crane worked at Arkham? Isn't he still supposed to have been a psychology professor at some school, where he tortured students?

As far as I know, he didn't work at Arkham Asylum in the comics. You're correct, he was a professor who ran unethical experiments, and he got kicked out when he fired a gun in a classroom as a demonstration.

In Zaphod's and my Batman movie concept collaboration, his origin will be intact, but we were going to have him work at Arkham Asylum after his termination from the faculty Gotham State University. Basically, it's a simple way to introduce Arkham Asylum early on and Zaphod liked the idea from 'Begins' a lot, providing they didn't delete the his real history. I could take it or leave it, but I think it does no harm as long as we make his real backstory clear and simply say it was his termination from Arkham-- for the same reasons he was canned from the university-- that sent him fully over the edge and he starts wearing his costume all the time and getting revenge, first on specific targets and then the whole city.

Oh, right, the other reason I sort of liked the idea of him working at the university and Arkham is that it shows just how badly the Asylum is run. They let a man who was disgracefully terminated for unethical behavior tend to criminally insane patients. That sets up Arkham as a crappy alternative to prison that is relatively easy to escape from, should we ever want to let someone escape.

To emphasize the importance of his real origin over the add-on in the movie, he will behave in a didactic, "teacherly" fashion towards his hirelings, just like in the Animated Series. Again, faithfulness is key, but embellishment that does not detract from the mythos is fine if it has a purpose.

 

[Herr Logan]

Thanks for the compliment. I actually had to walk away from that battle because they were just flat out ignoring me. I think they started responding to people who agreed with me instead of adressing me directly. However, I think you've inspired me to step once more into the breach!

Happy to be of inspiration.

I really loved your Spider-Man/Batman photgraphical analogy. I have a pretty good idea of why they ignored you. It's the same reason they ignored me in E-Mack's thread when I dared them to challenge my assessment of the Joker being NOT a serial killer. They know I'm right, or they don't know enough to know either way, so they're silent. Good! I'm feeling lazy and don't feel like proving my unspeakably righteous argument unless I absolutely have to.

I forget if Blind_Fury was one of the ones you mentioned as desirable potential contributors here, but as he has ever represented our righteous cause, I have invited him. He may be lurking as we speak. Say "hi" and wave, everybody.

Rock on and hard hard, Blind Fury, and Kame-sennin, tear 'em all new ones!

 

[kame-sennin]

Happy to be of inspiration.

I really loved your Spider-Man/Batman photgraphical analogy. I have a pretty good idea of why they ignored you. It's the same reason they ignored me in E-Mack's thread when I dared them to challenge my assessment of the Joker being NOT a serial killer. They know I'm right, or they don't know enough to know either way, so they're silent.

It sounds self-agrandizing, but I honestly can see no other answer. Every time I feel really proud of a post, they ignore it. Everytime I'm lazy and don't fully explain myself, or post a knee-jerk reaction, they pounce. It's very annoying, but it keeps us sharp.

I forget if Blind_Fury was one of the ones you mentioned as desirable potential contributors here, but as he has ever represented our righteous cause, I have invited him. He may be lurking as we speak. Say "hi" and wave, everybody.

Rock on and hard hard, Blind Fury, and Kame-sennin, tear 'em all new ones!

He wasn't, but his contributions seem to be pretty damn good. *waves*

BTW, your last post about the Riddler rocks. I love his teacher like nature and all the other details you mentioned about his character. Good work

 

[Herr Logan]

It sounds self-agrandizing, but I honestly can see no other answer. Every time I feel really proud of a post, they ignore it. Everytime I'm lazy and don't fully explain myself, or post a knee-jerk reaction, they pounce. It's very annoying, but it keeps us sharp.

Exactly. It's pretty predictable, really.

BTW, your last post about the Riddler rocks. I love his teacher like nature and all the other details you mentioned about his character. Good work

Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Zaphod laid the groundwork for it.

 

[Herr Logan]

Kame-Sennin, I thought I returned your PM hours ago, but apparently I pressed "Preview" instead of "Send" and neglected the window ever since, thinking you'd gotten it. I am profusely sorry for that. How freakin' stupid is that?

 

[Herr Logan]

Question: Does anyone here WHO WANTS A FAITHFUL AND GRANDIOSE JOKER PORTRAYAL think that my concept for 'Batman 2' makes it to hard to do the Joker justice?

Let me recap what's going on in that movie concept, not necessarily in chronological order:

• A year or two after 'Batman:Year One' (in story time... I want the movies filmed back to back, two by two, and released every year), the Batman has built a new Batmobile, added to his arsenal, fully created his super-processor Batcomputer and refurbished the Batcave to be more useful and comfortable for Alfred.
• Falcone and other gangs (Maroni, Scarface, Killer Croc, Penguin, etc.) have started openly warring with each other now that several mobsters think the Batman is a mob enforcer working for someone else.
• Lieutenant Gordon (yeah, he got promoted yet again in between movies)
• The Batman meets Catwoman during a second-story job and fights her and chases her and fights again.
• The next time they meet, Catwoman convinces the Batman she can help him end the crime war, or at the very least take down Falcone since he's been messing with her territory. There is sexual tension between them.
• Bruce Wayne starts dating and developing serious feelings for a wealthy socialite heiress (of course, the people from whom she "inherited" her fortune are still alive, but anyway...) named Selina Kyle. She feels strongly towards him as well and is drawn to something in him she can sense but he never shows outright.
• The Joker comes on the scene, announcing kills and making public robberies that result in deaths. Possibly the Laughing Fish story.
• Boss Maroni, who had been a part of the Falcone family before he split off, is captured by the Batman, arrested and convinced to testify against Maroni in court. During the trial, he pulls out a planted bottle of acid and scars half of D.A. Harvey Dent's face. Harvey subsequently disappears and isn't seen until the next movie, exactly two years later.

I don't want to make my movies completely reactionary to the mediocrity that goes on in the real world business of superhero movies, but I feel a need to out-do the studios in terms of story. The Joker will probably be my greatest challenge to write. There's no challenge in figuring out how he'll dress, look or act, but the dialogue is tricky because it has to be amazing, and all I can think about when I try to come up with lines is what's been done before in 'BATMAN' and TAS, which is amazing work. I don't want to just cut and paste, because that's lazy, but I'm putting off the writing of the Joker and even the plotting because I feel it needs to be perfect, above all else. No, he won't be the star of the movie, but he needs to "steal the show," as they say, during his scenes. I don't know if I should try to juggle all of these elements and have the Joker at the same time. The Batman and Catwoman will be taking on every gang in Gotham, for varying lengths of screentime (it could be as little as a minute or two in some cases, and there will probably be a montage somewhere for people less interesting than Scarface and Killer Croc).

What do you think? The Joker needs justice done. Ignorant plebeians say that the amount of time the Joker got in 'Mask of the Phantasm' is good enough for 'The Dark Knight.' That's a lie, and I'd be ashamed to be seen with someone who said that. Why was it okay for the Joker to have little screentime in MOtP? Anyone? BECAUSE HE WAS ALREADY AN ESTABLISHED CHARACTER!! If it's his intro in a new franchise, you can't ****ing do that to him. Not if you have any decency or intelligence. Period!

Anyway, thoughts on my dillemma?

Know that I will not argue about that last paragraph with anyone who advocates giving the Joker a "small and mysterious role." Anyone who argues in favor of that is automatically banned from the Havens, as I said a month or two ago. You either get it or you don't. This is the Goddamn Joker we're talking about here!

 

[Herr Logan]

This is a summary of the features of the car that the Batman will modify into his first Batmobile in our 'Batman: Year One.' This may not be the one my mother has, but it's similar (but hers doesn't have all the extras). The ones in bold are the ones that especially lend themselves to a Batmobile or crimefighting vehicle in general. I honestly don't know what all of these are, but here goes:

2006 Infiniti G35 Coupe 6MT


Colors

• Black Obsidian Exterior
• Graphite Leather/Aluminum Interior

Transmission

• 6-Speed Manual

Packages and Options:


MSRP
Premium Package $2,850.00 Aero Package $550.00 Infiniti DVD Navigation System $1,800.00 Rear Active Steer Package $750.00 Accessories
Splash Guards $210.00 Body Side Moldings $150.00 Carpeted Trunk Mat $80.00
Standard Features:


Audio System

• Six-speaker audio system featuring an AM/FM radio and an in-dash single-feed 6-disc CD autochanger with MP3 playback capability
• Dual in-glass diversity antennas. The radio tuner compares the signal strength of both antennas, and automatically selects the strongest signal.

Seating and Trim

• Leather-appointed, heated, 8-way power driver's seat with adjustable lumbar support; 4-way power passenger's seat
• Sport-bolstered front seats
• Aluminum interior trim
• Leather-wrapped 3-spoke steering wheel
• Aluminum and leather-appointed shift knob

Performance

• 4-wheel vented disc brakes with ABS, Electronic Brake force Distribution, and Brake Assist
• Independent aluminum-alloy multi-link front and rear suspension

Summary

• 298-hp 3.5-liter V6 engine
• Close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission with short-throw shifter
• Dual mass flywheel
• Includes Sport-tuned Suspension Package

Interior

• Automatic Temperature Control system with microfiltration
• Rear-seat heater ducts under front seats
• Power windows with illuminated switches and front-window one-touch auto-up/down and auto-reverse features
• Power door locks
• Power trunk release
• Retained accessory power for windows and sunroof
• Illuminated entry system with delayed fade-out
• Front sun visor extensions
• Overhead sunglasses storage (storage for IR goggles, or something)
• Dual overhead front map lights
• Front seatback map pockets
• Dual front and rear cup holders (cups full of smoke bombs...)
• Front armrest with storage compartment and 12-volt power outlet
• Folding rear seat
• Front and rear carpeted floor mats
• Trunk net

Security

• Remote keyless entry system with selective unlocking of driver's door or all doors (quick in, quick out)
• Remote power-opening of windows by using keyfob or via backup blade key in exterior door lock
• Infiniti Vehicle Immobilzer System with an encoded transponder chip embedded into the electronic key. The engine control computer will not allow the engine to start without the correct transponder signal.
• Vehicle Security System sounds alarm if intrusion via doors, hood, or trunk is detected
• Battery saver helps prevent accidental discharge if electrical accessories are left on.

Instrumentation and Driver Controls

• Fine Vision electronic analog instrumentation
• Manual tilt and telescoping steering column synchronizes gauge cluster with column for improved vision.
• Dual digital trip odometers
• Multi-information display for climate control, outside temperature, and digital compass
• Cruise control with illuminated steering-wheel-mounted switches
• Tire Pressure Monitoring System (warning light)
• Infiniti analog clock

Sport-tuned Suspension Package

• Sport-tuned suspension
• Viscous Limited-Slip rear Differential
• 19-inch 5-spoke forged aluminum-alloy wheels
• Unique front fascia and side sills
• Aluminum pedals
• Perforated leather and orange stitching on steering wheel

Safety - Occupant Protection

• Infiniti Advanced Air Bag System
• Driver and front-passenger side-impact supplemental air bags
• Roof-mounted curtain side-impact supplemental air bags for driver and front passenger
• Front and rear head restraints for all occupant positions. Active front head restraints move forward and upward in certain rear-impact collisions to help reduce whiplash-type injuries.
• 3-point height-adjustable front seat belts with pretensioners and load limiters, driver's seat Emergency Locking Retractor (ELR), and passenger's seat ELR and Automatic Locking Retractor (ALR)
• 3-point rear seat belts with ELR and ALR
• Slide-away brake pedal assembly moves brake pedal in certain frontal collisions
• LATCH System (Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren) helps simplify proper installation of compatible child restraint seats
• Emergency inside trunk release
• First-aid kit in rear center armrest
• Snug Kids® offers recommendations for choosing and installing child restraint seats. Please visit Infiniti.com for details.

Safety - Accident Avoidance

• Electronic Brake force Distribution (EBD)
• Brake Assist
• 4-wheel Anti-lock Braking System (ABS)
• Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC)
• Traction Control System (TCS)

Exterior

• Comprehensive airflow management, with underbody sculpting, for low 0.29 coefficient of drag (Cd) and zero-lift front aerodynamics (0.28 Cd and zero-lift front and rear with optional Aero Package)
• Front-fender sightlines allow driver to position front wheels into corners more accurately.
• Aluminum hood
• High Intensity Discharge (HID) bi-xenon headlights
• Integrated front fog lights
• UV-reducing tinted glass reduces transmission of radiant heat to vehicle's interior.
• Dual heated, power outside mirrors
• Speed-sensing wipers increase intermittent wipes as vehicle speed increases.
• Aluminum door-sill plates
• LED taillights and center high-mounted stoplight (CHMSL) offer quicker illumination, lower power consumption, and longer life than conventional bulbs.
• Rear window defroster with timer
• Dual chrome exhaust finishers

Price before further modifications: $41,190.00

Better equip your credit card, Mr. Wayne.


Further modifcations will leave this car with reinforced frames, lightweight ceramic plate armor on the shell, bulletproof windows, puncture-resistance and re-sealing jelly-filled tires, oil-slick and smoke-bomb rear release hatch, and more.
Obviously there will have to be Bat-fins on the car. When Bruce is finished doing the cosmetic surgery in the Cave, it should look as close to a real Batmobile as possible without changing too much.




In 'Batman 2', we're going with an entire new car, with every trick in the Batman's book, and looking similar to this:

But for the first movie, he's slumming with his suped-up luxury Bat-Infinity. The most notable differences between the first Batmobile and later ones are the lack of a sliding roof entry, and the lack of the car being able to drive itself automatically. In the second movie, or at the very latest, the third, the Batmobile will be a robot car like in the first two Batman movies.

It will be destroyed when the cops catch up to him, corner him and force him to flee his vehicle during the big police showdown. The Batman will have installed a self-destruct device, at least for the trunk (which holds Crime Scene Investigation instruments and Less Than Lethal tactical equipment) and for the GPS system, so all the Bat-evidence is gone when they examine his poor, beautiful car.

Thoughts?

 

[Zev]

Know that I will not argue about that last paragraph with anyone who advocates giving the Joker a "small and mysterious role." Anyone who argues in favor of that is automatically banned from the Havens, as I said a month or two ago. You either get it or you don't. This is the Goddamn Joker we're talking about here!

I still think "small and mysterious" is a fake rumor or out of context. Do you cast an Oscar-nominated actor for a small and mysterious role and make his casting the full subject of your announcement at ComicCon? I think it's obvious by now that they're making the film a Batman Vs. Joker film.

 

[Herr Logan]

I still think "small and mysterious" is a fake rumor or out of context. Do you cast an Oscar-nominated actor for a small and mysterious role and make his casting the full subject of your announcement at ComicCon? I think it's obvious by now that they're making the film a Batman Vs. Joker film.

If it's not true, then you can owe it to my efforts in manipulating probabilities with the Power of Negative Thinking.

Any thoughts as to the actual question?

 

[Herr Logan]

I won't be able to discuss this with Zaphod for another few days, but I'll speak my mind here anyway, and he'll see when he gets back.

I guess I have some concerns not only about 'Batman 2' and the likelihood of putting everything in there I want while giving the Joker his due, but also about 'Batman: Year One,' where the main elements from the graphic novel of the same name are embellished with the Penguin and the real Scarecrow. It's the Scarecrow I'm worried about. Again, this has nothing to do with any issue the average poster thinks is important (realism, cheesiness, whatever other bull$hit their tiny minds come up with...), but simply time management and flow. Truthfully, I don't want to just to a Year One and have no supervillains, but the Penguin was my perfect solution to that. Still, the Scarecrow could be great on film if done correctly (and no, he was no done correctly before... if he doesn't wear a full costume, then he's not the Scarecrow, period).

I guess it's not really a big deal. It's not like there have to be two big battle royales at the very end, since the big police chase and fight happens before the batman actually wraps up the case mission of getting Flass, Branden, Loeb, etc. kicked off the force, and that can happen a little ways before the big final battle with the Scarecrow. There will have to be a lot of gunplay with the Scarecrow's thugs (on loan from the Penguin), which might come off as repetitive considering the amount of shooting during the police battle, but there would also be a one-on-one fight with the Scarecrow. No, the Scarecrow is not nearly as built and trained as the Batman, but in this movie series, insane = strong, so he'll give him a fight, and he'll also be using a huge, scary-looking scythe. By the end, the Batman is no longer under the effects of the fear juice put in Bruce Wayne's drink earlier, though, so he won't get taken out by anyone. What he's fighting for is to keep the Scarecrow from executing his plan to poison the city's entire water supply with fear toxin.


As posted earlier, in the incident where bruce Wayne gets poisoned at his own party, he starts following an unfamiliar looking caterer (yes, Bruce actually takes the time to know the names and faces of "the help," if only for security purposes) and is led back to the Scarecrow's current hideout. After the Scarecrow shows himself, the toxin really kicks in and he loses to the Scarecrow holding a rake. After that, the Scarecrow tells his goons to throw the body (still alive, he knows) off a bridge to kill him. A goon asks if he's going to take his mask off first, and he will not. He says that the Batman is a creature of fear, much more than a man, and although it would be satisfying to strip him of his power, better to know that he defeated him without needing to. The God of Fear has beaten he who thought himself worthy of that title. And if the goons decide to take the mask off after they leave... Scarecrow says he'll know. This is in character for Crane, leaves the Batman's identity in tact, and sets up a possible running gag with Two-Face flipping a coin and deciding not to take off the Batman's mask when he has the chance in 'Batman 3.'

 

[Zev]

If it's not true, then you can owe it to my efforts in manipulating probabilities with the Power of Negative Thinking.

Any thoughts as to the actual question?

The Bat-Infiniti thing seems to come close to originitis. You know, when you go to see a movie about, say, Daredevil, and then the story is all about him becoming Daredevil (yeah, right) and you're like "What is this ****? I paid to see Daredevil, not Matt Murdock Makes Googly Eyes At Jennifer Garner For Two Hours And Then Becomes Daredevil In The Last Five Minutes Of The Movie. Look, I don't care about the origin, okay? Darth Vader showed up in Star Wars with no preamble and it worked better than when we knew he used to be a whiny kid and a whiny teenager and a whiny brat in general. Just show me Dr. Doom as emperor of Latveria, the rest isn't important.

So, I kinda want the real Batmobile in the first movie. If you can't deliver on that, give me the real Bat-Cycle or whatever.