Batman, the most unbelivable superhero in all of comics!

[ampersand]

 

[Eddie Brock]

You forgot to capitalize a few letters there, and you forgot a period.

howz dis four u? iz dis betta?

 

[Zeu]

I think the "it´s just a comic" is THE lamest excuse this side of yellow fear mosnters.

Comics are a medium used to tell stories, ANY stories from the most outlandish (Superman banging Lois without turning her into paté) to the most inane (Cassandra Cain becoming evil because daddy had another daughter).
It´s an amazing medium that captivates all types of creative minds because.... I mean becuase it enjoys massive amounts of freedom..
You can tell stories about anything using pretty much any materials, pacings, narrative or artistic styles.

BUT
As outlandish (or inane) as comics are allowed to be and as free as they are as a form of expression, there is just ONE rule they all must follow if they want to be taken seriously as a part of the industry.
One rule only.

A PROFESSIONAL comic has to be consistent.

It doesn´t matter if it tells the story of Daisy Duck or Superman, once it has established its set of rules in its universe, it has to OBEY those rules or else it´s just a (bad) joke no better than the stories written by your average kindergarden kid.

And what rules does Batman have to follow?
Batman is a man.
Just that.

Not a super-man, not a spider-man, not even a wonder-man but a man.
Gifted with an extreme drive due to a past tragedy that allowed him to excel at many fields of knowledge and expertise.
Simple and straightforward.
And yet - as this thread has proven-, this simple concept is one of the hardest notions to digest among fans (due to blind loyalty) and writers (due to either pure ignorance or sheer arrogance).


And what do we know about men?
A man has drives, aambitions, dreams and aspirations.
But also...

A man has weaknesses..
For one, he has to sleep. If he´s a playboy by day and a superhero by night, WHERE does he find the 8 hours of sleep he needs to keep on ticking (and despite what people will tell you, sleeping IS one of THE most important activities to sustain life, even taking precedence over eating or drinking).

A man has limitations.
Get five rooms.
In one of them, put 1,000 people giving their best to be the greatest weight lifting athlete in the world.
Another with would-be chemical engineers.
Another with future electronic expert gurus.
Another with racecar driving champions.
Another with future matial artist gods.
And I can GUARANTEE you that nobody and I mean NOBODY will be able to come at the top of all of these 2500 people.
For one simple reason.

Specialization.
When you put all you have into one activity, you specialise in THAT activity. Uour brain, your muscles, your nervous system,it all reorganises itself to better work efficiently at THAT activity. The muscles you develop to be the world´s fastest runner ARE NOT the same muscles you develop to be the world´s greatest sumo wrestler. The synaptic pathways you develop to digest complex concepts of electronic or chemical engineering are not the same ones you develop to master kickboxing moves.

A guy who has to multiitask to learn all five will learn a little of each but I can guarantee you that he won´t learn enough to excel at any of them. And you can bet your sorry asses that he will most definitelly NOT be the best at any of them.
Becuase, unlike the other poor schmucks focusing on learning only one thing instead of tive thousand others, he didn´t specialse in any of them.
He will be a jack of all trades but he will be a master of none.

And that´s the key point.
This is what Batman should be. Good at a few things but sure as hell NOT The Best at any of them

Now some of you may still yawn "oh, but you forgot that he could do all those things becuase this is a comic. In comics, humans can do abnormal things"

Yes, this is a comic but this is not a Daffy Duck comic.
This is a Batman comic and in Batman comics humans still have the same limitations as the ones in our own reality.
You point a gun at Vicky Vale´s head and she will loose bowel control becuase she knows she can DIE if she gets shot.
You put Gordon on top of the Chrysler building and he will pee himself becuase he knows if he falls, he will DIE.
They ALL have to follow the same rules as we do.
If they want to be humans like we are, they ALL have to share our weaknesses and limitations.
Even Batman.
Otherwise you can kiss his humanity goodbye.
Which is what writers do when they depict him as a Bat GOD able to excel at everything.

They are in fact throwing away his humanity - along with the book´s consistency (and believability)..

 

[ampersand]

That was beautiful, Zeu

 

[Zeu]

Thanks, Ampersand

 

[The Last Meatbag]

Batman has been taken out of hand, it is a bit like what Nolan has called Begins

"Heightened Reality"

Things I think are realistic are
If you train from age 13 up to age 25 there's a possibility (depending on the teachers) of being above average at
-Forensics and detective work
-Chemistry
-25 fighting styles
-10 Weapon styles

And have a highly conditioned body...

Mix that with a fortune and you have a realistic Batman for the comics

EDIT- Incredible post Zeu, I completely agree

 

[Fred_Fury]

I think the "it´s just a comic" is THE lamest excuse this side of yellow fear mosnters.

Comics are a medium used to tell stories, ANY stories from the most outlandish (Superman banging Lois without turning her into paté) to the most inane (Cassandra Cain becoming evil because daddy had another daughter).
It´s an amazing medium that captivates all types of creative minds because.... I mean becuase it enjoys massive amounts of freedom..
You can tell stories about anything using pretty much any materials, pacings, narrative or artistic styles.

BUT
As outlandish (or inane) as comics are allowed to be and as free as they are as a form of expression, there is just ONE rule they all must follow if they want to be taken seriously as a part of the industry.
One rule only.

A PROFESSIONAL comic has to be consistent.

It doesn´t matter if it tells the story of Daisy Duck or Superman, once it has established its set of rules in its universe, it has to OBEY those rules or else it´s just a (bad) joke no better than the stories written by your average kindergarden kid.

And what rules does Batman have to follow?
Batman is a man.
Just that.

Not a super-man, not a spider-man, not even a wonder-man but a man.
Gifted with an extreme drive due to a past tragedy that allowed him to excel at many fields of knowledge and expertise.
Simple and straightforward.
And yet - as this thread has proven-, this simple concept is one of the hardest notions to digest among fans (due to blind loyalty) and writers (due to either pure ignorance or sheer arrogance).


And what do we know about men?
A man has drives, aambitions, dreams and aspirations.
But also...

A man has weaknesses..
For one, he has to sleep. If he´s a playboy by day and a superhero by night, WHERE does he find the 8 hours of sleep he needs to keep on ticking (and despite what people will tell you, sleeping IS one of THE most important activities to sustain life, even taking precedence over eating or drinking).

A man has limitations.
Get five rooms.
In one of them, put 1,000 people giving their best to be the greatest weight lifting athlete in the world.
Another with would-be chemical engineers.
Another with future electronic expert gurus.
Another with racecar driving champions.
Another with future matial artist gods.
And I can GUARANTEE you that nobody and I mean NOBODY will be able to come at the top of all of these 2500 people.
For one simple reason.

Specialization.
When you put all you have into one activity, you specialise in THAT activity. Uour brain, your muscles, your nervous system,it all reorganises itself to better work efficiently at THAT activity. The muscles you develop to be the world´s fastest runner ARE NOT the same muscles you develop to be the world´s greatest sumo wrestler. The synaptic pathways you develop to digest complex concepts of electronic or chemical engineering are not the same ones you develop to master kickboxing moves.

A guy who has to multiitask to learn all five will learn a little of each but I can guarantee you that he won´t learn enough to excel at any of them. And you can bet your sorry asses that he will most definitelly NOT be the best at any of them.
Becuase, unlike the other poor schmucks focusing on learning only one thing instead of tive thousand others, he didn´t specialse in any of them.
He will be a jack of all trades but he will be a master of none.

And that´s the key point.
This is what Batman should be. Good at a few things but sure as hell NOT The Best at any of them

Now some of you may still yawn "oh, but you forgot that he could do all those things becuase this is a comic. In comics, humans can do abnormal things"

Yes, this is a comic but this is not a Daffy Duck comic.
This is a Batman comic and in Batman comics humans still have the same limitations as the ones in our own reality.
You point a gun at Vicky Vale´s head and she will loose bowel control becuase she knows she can DIE if she gets shot.
You put Gordon on top of the Chrysler building and he will pee himself becuase he knows if he falls, he will DIE.
They ALL have to follow the same rules as we do.
If they want to be humans like we are, they ALL have to share our weaknesses and limitations.
Even Batman.
Otherwise you can kiss his humanity goodbye.
Which is what writers do when they depict him as a Bat GOD able to excel at everything.

They are in fact throwing away his humanity - along with the book´s consistency (and believability)..

Maybe its because im drunk but damn... that was an awesome post.

 

[Hush]

Zeu its fiction for a reason. Honestly. Letting a character have these characteristics is just fun. Let the writer and character have fun. Let the comic be fun.

 

[The Leaguer]

Batman is entertaining because of the crazy **** he does. Who the f*** wants to watch Batman lift weights for 10 hours to get to the level of strength he's at? No one.

It's more fun seeing Batman punch a guy and send him flying than seeing Batman punch a guy and forcing him back a step. People read comics for fun.

 

[Hush]

So are you agreeing with me Leaguer? Or just trying to reword my post!?!?!? Huh? What kind of conspiracy is this!!!!

 

[The Leaguer]

I'm agreeing.

What kills me is that people actually have to "believe" their comic. Do I love when Batman does crazy ****? Hell yeah. Do I believe he could actually do that? F*** no. Because to believe that s*** is stupid as Hell.

Batman's believability went out the window when he started dressing up like a God damned bat.

"omg i beeleeve he dresses up liek a bat an fights bad guyz but i kant beleeve he can dodge bullits!!!!1"

 

[Hush]

Can we be friends? I think we would get along great!

 

[The Question]

Batman has been taken out of hand, it is a bit like what Nolan has called Begins

"Heightened Reality"

Things I think are realistic are
If you train from age 13 up to age 25 there's a possibility (depending on the teachers) of being above average at
-Forensics and detective work
-Chemistry
-25 fighting styles
-10 Weapon styles

And have a highly conditioned body...

Mix that with a fortune and you have a realistic Batman for the comics

EDIT- Incredible post Zeu, I completely agree

I've said it before. The number of styles you know is meaningless. All Batman would need to be a good fighter is a blend of judo, boxing, and military hand to hand combat techniques. And the willingness to fight really really dirty.

 

[Zeu]

Pretty much.

A ninja doesn´t have to know 300 fighting styles to sneak on an oponent and neutralise him.

 

[CLARKY]

Hello their, for anyone reading this, its come to my attention that Batman[and his supporting cast] have become so ubelieveable its laughable. Let me just start with the fact that he is a "powerless" billionare who uses a bat costume and his martial arts and gadgets to fight crime in a vastly crime ridden city. That to me is improbable beyond belief, i dun care how much training you have no "Powerless" being should be able to the things Batmans and his chorts[Robin especially] do every night. Dodging bullets,takeing on numerus armed men[some with powers],leaping from rooftop to rooftop, and basically comeing from all this without much fuss or injury mostly. People like batman alot i suppose because he a "powerless" man who "stands amongts godlike beings". Unless they make Batman and his cohorts metahumans, Batman will remain as simply the most unbelievable/unrealistic hero in comicdom.

Well bud I agree with U batman is become a joke. People and writers have made him more Marvel, more anti-hero, more "realistic", more badass. I left reading batbooks since several years because I was disgusted.
Personally I keep seing him as a superhero. A dark one , sure but a superhero.
So it's normal for superheroes to jump from rooftops and fight crime every night. I think U should understand that he was a superhero, he doesn't have to be realistic (for me at least) because the simple concept of fighting crime with a long cape is as laughable as impossible. (well except if U have superpowers and all).

Now for my second point on the matter, why do i think Batman is less believable heroes like superman,wonderwoman,green lantern etc? Its easy, we have a valid reason has to why they can fight powerful beings and save the day all the time, they all have superpowers. The fact that superman is invunerble to harm, makes us understand why he can be shot at,blasted,beat up, and hit with big objects and still survive. With Batman, we must beleive he is able to dodge multiple machine gun fire,flame throwers,blasts of enegy, and other things humans at their peek cannot possibly even hope to dodge all at once. The fact is that we have valid reasons [however fantastic] that super powered heroes like superman fight crime everyday, and survive death beacuse that have powers. With Batman we must beleive that if we train really hard, and get really rich, we to can fight crime to. Basically Dc comic[and other comics] makes us beleive that if a regular kid trains really hard, and aquires some money, they can just hop out on the streets[with a costume] and help clean up a crime ridden city.

no bud DC Comics doesn't make us believe that. It's an interpretation. Do you believe there are little smurfs in this universe giving power ring to the worthwhile people ... well ... maybe but U see what I mean.
I know sometimes the writers exagerate but in my Superhero point of view batman can avoid bullets when he's moving fast. But I see Ur point.

My third point are the Robins [pick one], who have ussally been anywhere between 11 and 18 years old at max. You expect to even try and beleive that batman trains a 12 to 13 year old kid for sum months, and then he makes him his partner on the streets That to me is the single sillest[ and unbelievable] thing i have ever heard, Batman [and green arrow] are dumbest adults i have ever read of. Who the hell trains ac12 year old, and then makes him his partner, is Bruce Wayne an idiot? Then we must beleive that a 5 foot 3 skinny kid[Robin] can take on dozens of grown armed men at Batman sides[while wearing a brightly colored cotume]. Not to mention that the Robins [save for Jason Todd] usually come through without any injures for the most part.

I agree with U. But Robin is part of the mythos, that's why I would rather see Robin as he is shown in BTAS : around 20-20 at the university. This is totally personnal.

My next and most important point, Batman being in the Justice League. Batman being in a League full of nearly godlike beings is odd. I admit batman should help them with planning and stategy, but to make people even try and understand how he can never get tired when everyone else is flying and blasting off. How he seems to overcome godly foes [like white martians, the enitre justice League] and yet never seems to be injured or hurt. Batman was able to recover from a broken back/spine but barbara gordan [despite living in a world full of magic, intersteallar space travel,gods, and beings with great healing powers] cannot get her legs healed is dumb.

Again I agree with U. I read somewhere on this thread that some people recover from a broken spine and some don't. Well this sounds stupid to me and I think U're right despite living in a world full of magic, intersteallar space travel,gods, and beings with great healing powers Barbara can not heal !!!!!
Well I find it dumb as well but now it's too late and she has found her place as Oracle so ...
And I agree with U again about Batman in the league. I think that because he was the "weakest" "they" made him the best in order to prove his status in the league. that's why I stopped reading the books, it seemed totally irrational. Anyway ... IMO Mark Waid and Grant Morrisson transformed the character in a bad way and now we face the consequences in the batbooks.

My last point is simple, to further make sure Batman is relevant they make superman give him a kryptonite ring. Heres why i find this odd, why not give the ring to a being that can atleast match up aganst superman in a fight? If they made superman give the ring to wonderwoman [whos capabale of killing if needed, and a match for superman] that would make more sense. If superman truly went "rogue" he could simply drop a oceanliner on wayne manor and batman would be dead. or superman could fly into deep space, and then fire heat vision down upon batman, the list goes on forever. Ofcoruse this was done to make sure Batman is "Badass" and can "beat" superman cause batmans "badass". Im a huge Baman fan, but the last 20 plus years the character has been more popular thier he ever was, but he has also become completly over the top in terms of trying to make the character into some kind of unbelievable "god"[prep time is dumb buy the way].

I completely agree with U. But U have to understand that it was in order to make it more dramatic that the only powerless human of the league would be able to take down the Super-man. yeeaaaaah he's more badass this way, yeaaaaah.
I agree with U I would find it more wise to give the ring to Wonderwoman who DOES kill (sometimes).

I think Ur thread make a valid point.
But I think U should see Batman not as what he is today but as what he was before in the 70/80 : a superhero. Maybe it will help U "over-see" the things U find unbelievable. I think it's importat U understand that it is a comic book ; it doesn't have to be realistic.
(nor unbelievable I concur)

 

[ampersand]

Good lord, please type out "you".

 

[Fried Gold]

Yeah, CLARKY.

 

[CLARKY]

Good lord, please type out "you".

Did you notice there's sense in the unreadable post of mine?
Sorry bud I didn't know that hurts so much, I did take a bad habit ; There is a lot of people doing it and I thought it was a usual thing for english-speaking people. I'll try to change that

 

[Kitsune]

Did you notice there's sense in the unreadable post of mine?
Sorry bud I didn't know that hurts so much, I did take a bad habit ; There is a lot of people doing it and I thought it was a usual thing for english-speaking people. I'll try to change that

It's okay for things like text messages, but when you're typing a long message it makes you seem lazy on not very smart.

 

[CLARKY]

ooh. OK thanks.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Batman, the most unbelivable superhero in all of comics!

I find him to be The Best Superhero period . [ I guess it pretty amazing to see a guy with no powers , and time & time again uses his brain & sometimes brawn to win many of the battles he's faced. Do it in such an Awesome way he shows up every other superhero with super powers, It quite Incredible, also when your a kid you think if BATMAN can be the badass superhero without superpowers of his own, then maybe I can too .] That the way I felt when I was a kid .

BATS RULES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Eddie Brock]

I find him to be The Best Superhero period . [ I guess it pretty amazing to see a guy with no powers , and time & time again uses his brain & sometimes brawn to win many of the battles he's faced. Do it in such an Awesome way he shows up every other superhero with super powers, It quite Incredible, also when your a kid you think if BATMAN can be the badass superhero without superpowers of his own, then maybe I can too .] That the way I felt when I was a kid .

BATS RULES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

true, very true

 

[Zeu]

Nothing wrong with that, I find it commendable when kids choose brave men who thrive to be the best they could be as their rolemodels.

 

[pifpaf]

i find powerless superheros truly real is dardevil the movie( if someone remember) he to take a salt bath and a lot of pain killer every night he come home ,because what he do is so hard on the body, he damage is joint, knee, shoulder.
ask some athlete, after some years they damage the body. they have to take some pain killers

i think is batman was a little more belivable he will take much more drug for pain we will see a little more suffer from mrs wayne

 

[The Last Meatbag]

The reasons I said he should learn so many styles is so he could somehow blend them into his own rapid unpredictable style