BvS Batman v Superman Plot Speculation

[Llama_Shepherd]

He gives him Kryptonite....

 

[Boy Scout]

He gives him Kryptonite....

Which wouldn't work. If Batman approached Superman and made his intentions clear, he would be dead before he could blink. If he approached Superman and then suddenly whipped out the Kryptonite, Superman would blow him away and then set him on fire. If he tried to sneak up on Superman, he would probably hear it, and then set him on fire or snap his neck or paralyze him from the waist down. Confronting Superman one-on-one would not work unless Superman was an idiot or written to be an idiot for the purpose of justifying a direct confrontation. The only way Batman could conceivably neutralize Superman by himself is if he were able to trick him into walking into a room full of Kryptonite. Neither a ring nor a chunk of the stuff will cut it.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

"Would probably hear it"

There's enough justification. Also, you don't personally get to decide how effective Kryptonite is, sometimes a small piece is enough.

 

[Boy Scout]

"Would probably hear it"

And if he didn't, he would blow Batman away the second he got close and then set him on fire. But he probably would hear it, considering he has super hearing and all.

There's enough justification.

Not really.

Also, you don't personally get to decide how effective Kryptonite is, sometimes a small piece is enough.

And sometimes it isn't. So now that we're right back where we started...

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Clark spent years tuning out the world from his super hearing, he wouldn't hear miniscule sound unless he tried. There's your justification. And if he's listening intently, his ears are then vulnerable to sound (as demonstrated).

You're right, they should maintain a small amount can kill him, Superman is the same size, he can only absorb so much radiation.

 

[Boy Scout]

Clark spent years tuning out the world from his super hearing, he wouldn't hear miniscule sound unless he tried.

What was established was that he learned to filter out the things he didn't want to hear whenever he didn't want to hear them so that he wouldn't be overwhelmed by literally every single noise. Every Superman I've ever seen learned to do the exact same thing and all were able to pick up on tiny sounds.

Even if you are correct: nothing is stopping Superman from reacting faster than Batman and putting distance between them in some way. Batman will eventually have to make his presence known and Superman would be able to do something about if before Batman could even blink.

There's your justification.

It's a pretty weak one.

You're right, they should maintain a small amount can kill him, Superman is the same size, he can only absorb so much radiation.

Superman being taken down by a small chunk of Kryptonite is lame. It should take a significant amount to bring him down. He has absorbed so much solar energy over the years that the tiny amount of radiation he would absorb from a tiny chunk wouldn't (or shouldn't) do anything to him besides cause a small amount of discomfort.

 

[godisawesome]

I've always kind of liked the idea that the majority of Batman's anti-Superman plans (at least once their alliance has become the status quo) are determined around the key idea that Superman won't be going full tilt for victory, either because Batman has a preemptive strike while Superman still considers their alliance intact, or because Superman's been compromised by an outside force and Batman can count Clark resisting from the inside and sabotaging his own efforts.

The multiple times that Superman's been mind controlled have shown that whatever's controlling him ends up inefficiently using his powers allowing Batman the opening to free Clark or incapacitate him.

Otherwise, a lot of Bruce's contingency plans probably start from the point of "In the event of my death at the hands of Superman, this individual receives this message...."



And speaking of the regular plot speculation behind this thread, anybody else like the idea that by the time of the actual film, Batman is actually focused on trying to stop Lex Luthor from utilizing strategies or weapons he himself created?

I love the idea that both Lex and Bruce immediately started coming up with plans for taking Superman out, and started working together only for Batman to realize what type of snake Lex was? So Bruce is in Metroplois to actually save Superman and any civilians who would be caught in the crossfire (presumably because Clark's shown himself to be a better man than Bruce predicted) and his hostility and preparedness for Superman actually have a logical explanatio.

Of course, this will still lead to the team up, but it will establish how sneaky Lex was and how paranoid Batman can be.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

What was established was that he learned to filter out the things he didn't want to hear whenever he didn't want to hear them so that he wouldn't be overwhelmed by literally every single noise. Every Superman I've ever seen learned to do the exact same thing and all were able to pick up on tiny sounds.

He can hear things when he knows what to listen to. Why would he suspect there is someone trying to sneak up on him? Even if he were, that makes his ears vulnerable, like what happened with Zod.

Even if you are correct: nothing is stopping Superman from reacting faster than Batman and putting distance between them in some way. Batman will eventually have to make his presence known and Superman would be able to do something about if before Batman could even blink.

Why would Bruce make himself known? That would put him at a tactical disadvantage. Do you think the SEALS shout "Hey we're the SEALS!" at the beginning of a mission?

It's a pretty weak one.

Yet justified by the logic of the film. Weak logic is going to happen when you come to justifiying superpowers.

Superman being taken down by a small chunk of Kryptonite is lame. It should take a significant amount to bring him down. He has absorbed so much solar energy over the years that the tiny amount of radiation he would absorb from a tiny chunk wouldn't (or shouldn't) do anything to him besides cause a small amount of discomfort.

Yeah, the sun wouldn't give Superman that much energy. Even over 33 years. A small radioactive rock, being much closer, would have a near equal effect.

 

[AnneFan]

What I like about the Superman/Batman match-up is that Batman would lose. He's the peak of humanity, but nonetheless a mere mortal. But when the times comes, when it really counts, say Superman has snapped and is ruling Earth like a God (something we'll probably never see happen, but the idea lingers) he simply *has* to win. And I'm sure that worry plagues an already troubled mind. So he stockpiles kryptonite, devises back-up plans and perseveres. He can slow Supes down, but stopping him is another matter.

 

[Black Narcissus]

The only way Batman would ever have a chance of beating Superman is if Superman was either an idiot or written to be an idiot. Superman could subdue Batman in an instant. I love Batman, but come on.

I guess you won't be seeing this film.

 

[MrsKent26]

Superman being taken down by a small chunk of Kryptonite is lame. It should take a significant amount to bring him down. He has absorbed so much solar energy over the years that the tiny amount of radiation he would absorb from a tiny chunk wouldn't (or shouldn't) do anything to him besides cause a small amount of discomfort.

Whoa...I think I agree with The Boy Scout about something!

I think it should take more than a tiny piece as well, like a slab of it. I also think it should have to be very close to him to cause damage.

I've always kind of liked the idea that the majority of Batman's anti-Superman plans (at least once their alliance has become the status quo) are determined around the key idea that Superman won't be going full tilt for victory, either because Batman has a preemptive strike while Superman still considers their alliance intact, or because Superman's been compromised by an outside force and Batman can count Clark resisting from the inside and sabotaging his own efforts.

I like this angle. I can imagine batman using something like that to his advantage. Superman thinks they are allies, but batman is secretly making plans to contain him.

 

[D.P.]

I don't think Batman is just a man. He's the ultimate ideal in secular humanism. The perfect human in regards to his single minded ambition.

That's it. Part of the reason why he is able to achieve this unattainable peak of human excellence is because he is obsessed in a way that is almost mentally unhealthy. He barely gets the sleep a normal person should in order to properly function and he pushes himself to the brink of exhaustion on a daily basis.

People like me have always clamored for the super fast, agile, master martial artist who is also a world class detective to be depicted on screen, but the first film that actually shows how he is able to perform at that level and the toll it takes on one's mental and physical well-being could possible be the greatest Batman film ever.

We got glimpses of it in the Nolanverse, but I'm hungry for more.

 

[ShoguN]

I believe that this movie will take place a few months after the events of MoS. If it's so, then I believe that the mayor players in the movie will be

1) Star Labs ( recovering alien wreckage from the kryptonian ships and studying it and from here 2 characters from the JLA will come out. Cyborg and The Flash.)

2) Batman/Bruce Wayne (I believe he is more interested in his fallen satellite and the secrets that can be discovered if it falls in the wrong hands. His identity can be compromised and that of his partners)

3) Lex Luthor ( there are 2 possibilities. The first could be that his parents died in the kryptonian invasion an now he claims what belongs to him. Or Lex is a young genius with a OCD that involves total control over anything that he fells threaten by and that involves Superman)

4) Wonder Woman/Diana ( either it's she is sent to investigate Superman or Batman. Maybe she believes Superman is a new God from ancient times or Batmans satellite uncovered the true location of their island)

INTERESTING. I like #2 and #3

 

[Boy Scout]

He can hear things when he knows what to listen to. Why would he suspect there is someone trying to sneak up on him?

We are capable of hearing tiny sounds even when we aren't focusing on them. We don't have super hearing. Superman does. His range is a hell of a lot wider than ours. He would most likely be able to hear someone sneaking up on him, unless he was very distracted. Assuming that was the case: Superman would still possess super speed, which means he would be able to put distance between himself and Batman before the latter could even comprehend what was happening.

Why would Bruce make himself known?

...so he could fight Superman? Unless the hypothetical situation we've been referencing hasn't been a direct confrontation, Batman would eventually have to step out of the shadows and reveal himself.

Yet justified by the logic of the film.

Not really. Superman was shown to have heard distant noise even when he was completely focused on something else.

[YT]watch?v=Bevh3xn9P7w[/YT]

He was just standing there, looking at Lois, and then he took off with almost no warning.

Yeah, the sun wouldn't give Superman that much energy. Even over 33 years. A small radioactive rock, being much closer, would have a near equal effect.

Yeah, sure, okay.

 

[Boy Scout]

I guess you won't be seeing this film.

They're capable of writing this thing intelligently. Whether or not they will is up to them.

Whoa...I think I agree with The Boy Scout about something!

Looks like you've finally come to your senses. t:

I think it should take more than a tiny piece as well, like a slab of it. I also think it should have to be very close to him to cause damage.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Metallo, Brainiac, Darkseid, Doomsday.... who will it be?

 

[sf2]

i think it's logical to see Ben Affleck beating up Henry Cavill. as Ben is a more well known and veteran actor.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

We are capable of hearing tiny sounds even when we aren't focusing on them. We don't have super hearing. Superman does. His range is a hell of a lot wider than ours. He would most likely be able to hear someone sneaking up on him, unless he was very distracted. Assuming that was the case: Superman would still possess super speed, which means he would be able to put distance between himself and Batman before the latter could even comprehend what was happening.

Superman can also completely turn his senses off. Yet we can't. You shouldn't be judging Superman by human senses.

As for super speed. Funny how he forgot about that during his fight with Zod (but then again so did Zod- see Faora completely turning into a motion blur when moving at super speed). Perhaps he doesn't have the reactions to go with his speed.

...so he could fight Superman? Unless the hypothetical situation we've been referencing hasn't been a direct confrontation, Batman would eventually have to step out of the shadows and reveal himself.

But that's not tactically advantageous. Batman wouldn't come out until he was confident he could survive. That's Batman's thing.

Not really. Superman was shown to have heard distant noise even when he was completely focused on something else.

[YT]watch?v=Bevh3xn9P7w[/YT]

He was just standing there, looking at Lois, and then he took off with almost no warning.

Well then hooray for logical inconsistencies! Let's have some more!

Yeah, sure, okay.

Brian Cox's BBC Series "Wonders of the Universe" for further information, because he smarter and more charasmatic than me. The energy given out by the sun has to travel 150M KM in every direction, getting massively dispersed filling that huge space, before getting to Earth. You can measure the amount of energy by measuring how long it takes the sun to heat some water.

Then account for Superman's surface area only being around 2m^2. The energy input from the sun is massively dwarfed by both:

A) his energy output.
and
B) a piece of highly radioactive material (gram for gram U-235 contains over two million times more energy than oil).

So actually, yeah. Sure.


Just as an aside, I think it's absolutely HILARIOUS that people are so opposed to Batman putting up a good fight against Superman. But pretty much most great stories in history revolve around characters fighting huge monsters. I think you'd all hate The Hobbit/Lord of the Rings/Hercules/Perseus/St George/pretty much EVERY superhero story etc.

 

[VanillaVoodoo]

I'm not going to speculate on the plot at this time, I haven't even seen Man of Steel yet. What I will comment on is the possibility that the Superman/Batman movie we're all expecting could actual end up being Justice League: Origins. Not just as a lead in to the Justice League movies but with the actual title being Justice League: Origins. That or call it Batman vs Superman: JLA Origins or JLA Origins: Superman vs Batman.

 

[The Man of HEEL]

Way too complex a title imo. Keep it simple.

 

[king666]

I think Batman and WW are already friends/partners. They probably know each other.

 

[VanillaVoodoo]

Way too complex a title imo. Keep it simple.

I realize that but, despite my off the wall suggestions, I usually try and be somewhat realistic and work with what is known. Personally, I'd go with Justice League: Origins or Justice League: Beginnings if they wanted to not seem to be copying the X-Men: Origins franchise. However, they probably want to capitalize on the Batman/Superman aspect and title which is why the Batman vs Superman: Justice League of America Origins and vice-versa were suggested. However, with the way it seems to be shaping up, it almost seems like it is more of a JLA: Origins story than Batman vs Superman.

 

[godisawesome]

I'm hoping they decide to build up the Superman-Luthor feud throughout this movie and let it get worse in succeeding films. Y'know, have Luthor's antagonism be mostly pragmatic in this entry, with only a bit of a personal petty edge to it. Then have him take his defeat as a major insult and personal attack and have the entire war become a vendetta. Luthor becoming obsessed with taking out Superman, to the point of him becoming impractical about it is awesome.

It allows Luthor to both be exceedingly dangerous and yet also just a little bit too petty to actually win if he's convinced that Superman must be humiliated, heartbroken, or somehow deconstructed then killed. It also allows for an escalation from something like Metallo being built to kill a rival to making a clone designed to befriend Superman than kill all those around him.

I just don't want it to be as bland as it was in the old movies. Spacey came close, but the rest of the movie stank enough to ruin it.

 

[DaJanksta]

You guys think Lex will be the only villain? It's hard for me to see it that way I think there has to be at least one other villain.

 

[VanillaVoodoo]

You guys think Lex will be the only villain? It's hard for me to see it that way I think there has to be at least one other villain.

Logically, I think there will be a villain from Batman's side of the tracks. My money would be on Penguin or Riddler.