BvS Batman v Superman Plot Speculation

[Llama_Shepherd]

God that sounds terrible.

 

[Superman_200]

I don't think it would be terrible, I think it wouldn't make Batman look bad, it would just make him like what he is, a human. And it would make Superman look like what he is, invulnerable to anything human's can come up with.

I think that writers try to give Batman too much credit because he represents humanity, but Superman is like a god to humans. No one would say "well, Batman could beat Thor if he had prep-time, etc." so I'd like to see issue handled quickly. That way people wouldn't say "oh if Batman had this or that plot-device he would win", etc. Nope, I'd like it shown in the movie that Batman (just like the entire military and the rest of the world) have absolutely nothing that can stop Superman.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Superman as an unstoppable force of nature with humanity in the palm of his hands. Bad storytelling, looks like a villain, if I lived on that world I'd rather have no Superman than that one.

Superman overwhelming Batman because he can, forcing Batman to co-operate, because what? He might kill him? Just keep destroying him? Bad storytelling, Superman seems petty and like a villain "An ant has no quarrell with a boot".

Removal of Kryptonite, okay I guess, not necesarry, but it's as much a staple of the mythology as the Kents are.

 

[bluerayer]

Superman
Batman
Wonder Woman
Cyborg
Lois Lane
Lex Luthor
Doomsday: Jason Momoa
Metallo: Callan Mulvey
The Flash
Nightwing
Perry White
Jimmy Olsen
Martha Kent

I think Tao Okamoto will be a traitorous Amazon that allies with Lex Luthor and draws Wonder Woman away from Themyscira. Her character will basically serve as the DCCU's Mercy Graves.

The story will be inspired partly by The Dark Knight Returns, The Death of Superman, and Superman/Batman: The Search for Kryptonite.

Metallo and Cyborg's origins may be tied together.

It may be unlikely for both Metallo and Doomsday to be used. But i think it is likely for one of those characters to be used. if Metallo is used, i think it'll be Mulvey, if Doomsday is used, i think it'll be Momoa.

Holly Hunter could possibly be Leslie Thompkins

I spitballed the idea, in another thread, that Holly Hunter is a STAR Labs scientist that discovers Kryptonite.

 

[Superman_200]

Superman as an unstoppable force of nature with humanity in the palm of his hands. Bad storytelling, looks like a villain, if I lived on that world I'd rather have no Superman than that one.

Superman overwhelming Batman because he can, forcing Batman to co-operate, because what? He might kill him? Just keep destroying him? Bad storytelling, Superman seems petty and like a villain "An ant has no quarrell with a boot".

Removal of Kryptonite, okay I guess, not necesarry, but it's as much a staple of the mythology as the Kents are.

I wouldn't want him to threaten Batman with harm or even hurt him, but stop him completely, like a parent might stop a child from kicking or playing too rough by simply holding his head in one spot. Obviously I wouldn't want Superman to do that in particular, but stop Batman. I mean if Batman is trying anything at all that he just shows how fast he is and just literally holds Batman in place. Dr. Manhattan said something about how the worlds smartest man posed no more of a threat to him than the world's smartest ant. I'd like to see a line similar to that (but less arrogant) for Superman but that makes it clear (to all the audience who debates if Batman would beat Superman and to Batman) who would really win.

I wouldn't want to see in the movie that Batman presents even the slightest threat in anyway to Superman. He can be smarter, and represent humanity and all that, but I want Superman treated like he is just on another level. I don't like the fact that so many people think Batman would win, so I'd like the movie to squash that idea.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

You mean Dr Manhattan who gave up on humanity, twice, agreed with the manipulation of the entire planet as well as the killing of millions, and murdered the only human hero in his way?

 

[Superman_200]

You mean Dr Manhattan who gave up on humanity, twice, agreed with the manipulation of the entire planet as well as the killing of millions, and murdered the only human hero in his way?

Yeah, I know the story. I said that I'd like Superman to have a similar line, but less "cold" than that one. Just because he lets Batman know (and audience) just how useless trying to stop him is does not mean he is giving up on humanity or manipulating people or killing anyone. He is simply putting his cards on the table. Hopefully with a badass line and that wouldn't make the character seem brutal or mean or anything. It would make him look cool, cooler than Batman. Your problem with all I said is that I said I would like him to deliver a line similar to that one from Dr. Manhattan because of what Dr. Manhattan did in the movie?

And grabbing Batman and telling him that there is nothing he can do to stop him is not very different at all to him popping out of the handcuffs and destroying a satellite and telling the generals that there is nothing they can do to stop him. He is basically repeating to Batman what he said to the general in a different way. If after seeing the military couldn't do anything to Superman, and Batman still tries, he is stubborn, so Superman should just do a simple show of force, but his cards on the table again and let him know clearly that there is nothing Batman can do to stop him, but that he doesn't need too either.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Manhattan's character informs his lines, he's cold detached and views himself as separate to humanity, he's all the things Superman is not, which is why he says things like that.

My problem is your obsession to try and drag another character through dirt to make your preferred look better. People would see through it. You want Superman to seem cool? Have him do cool things, have him fight robots, save planes, trains, foil bank robberies.

Don't have him belittle humanity because it would only make Lex right. I'd genuinely be rooting for him if things like that happened.

Actually, you've made him sound like Ultraman.

 

[Superman_200]

There is a lot that he did in Man of Steel that set him up apart from humanity. How is it any different for Superman to tell Batman that there is nothing he can do to stop him than it is for Superman to tell the military that there is nothing they can do to stop him?

Him destroying a satellite is a lot worse than him simply using his speed to grab Batman and stop him from doing anything. There is nothing for the audience to see through, he is just fast and didn't hurt anyone. And he can do all those things, like fight villains and save a plane, etc. and still also stop Batman.

Grabbing Batman mid-move and just lifting him off the floor or stopping his movement is hardly dragging a character through the dirt.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Why have you gone from:

Or just grabs Batman like he is a rag doll and makes it very clear to him that no matter how skilled, smart, or whether he has Kryptonite or not, that he has absolutely no way in which to stop him. That he just needs to trust him.

Batman would realize that he does need to trust him because if Superman really was someone that couldn't be trusted, Superman would just have grabbed Batman by the throat by the time Batman had blinked. When he would have opened his eyes he would have been dying in space like George Clooney in Gravity.

To:

"Lifting him off the floor"?


One is villain territory, the other is annoyed.

EDIT- Actually! It's the same thing people complain about from DKR, Bruce's final words before "death".

 

[gdw]

I don't think it would be terrible, I think it wouldn't make Batman look bad, it would just make him like what he is, a human. And it would make Superman look like what he is, invulnerable to anything human's can come up with.

I think that writers try to give Batman too much credit because he represents humanity, but Superman is like a god to humans. No one would say "well, Batman could beat Thor if he had prep-time, etc." so I'd like to see issue handled quickly. That way people wouldn't say "oh if Batman had this or that plot-device he would win", etc. Nope, I'd like it shown in the movie that Batman (just like the entire military and the rest of the world) have absolutely nothing that can stop Superman.

It's not that Batman needs prep time, it's that he's ALREADY prepared. He's thought of every possibility.
I've always said, Superman may be the Big Blue Boy Scout, but Batman is always prepared; THAT is why he will always be able to win in a fight with Superman. That, and the fact that he knows who Clark is deep down inside, and can, and will, use that to his advantage, in situations where Clark is a danger due to being controlled/manipulated.

 

[Marvin]

Here's my speculation:

At the end of MOS, civilian reactions to Superman are varied. While many people, most famous among them being Lois Lane of the Daily Planet, are grateful to Superman for preventing the destruction of the Earth, still others are convinced that he is an unpredictable, destructive force that poses a threat to humanity. Though there is pressure from Gen. Swanwick and Northcom to trust the alien, the US Government is still very cautious about their new "ally".

So pretty much the state of mind of movie critics and fanboys.

 

[MrsKent26]

It's not that Batman needs prep time, it's that he's ALREADY prepared. He's thought of every possibility.
I've always said, Superman may be the Big Blue Boy Scout, but Batman is always prepared; THAT is why he will always be able to win in a fight with Superman. That, and the fact that he knows who Clark is deep down inside, and can, and will, use that to his advantage, in situations where Clark is a danger due to being controlled/manipulated.

It's lovely how some people won't even consider the possibility of Superman beating batman and always use the tired "He's always prepared/prep time" excuse. It's almost as fun as when people say Superman is over-powered, but their favorite character would always be able to beat him.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Apples are better than oranges.

 

[Superman_200]

It's not that Batman needs prep time, it's that he's ALREADY prepared. He's thought of every possibility.
I've always said, Superman may be the Big Blue Boy Scout, but Batman is always prepared; THAT is why he will always be able to win in a fight with Superman. That, and the fact that he knows who Clark is deep down inside, and can, and will, use that to his advantage, in situations where Clark is a danger due to being controlled/manipulated.

Bane broke his back. He is just a "roided out jock". If Bane is a challenge, how would Superman, who can hear Batman's heartbeat approaching him, be able to beat him? He would only beat him if they wrote and purposely ignored some things that Superman could do to win.

Batman winning is kind of like in movies where one guy fights 10 guys and he is really only fighting one or two guys and the other eight are just dancing around. If all actually fought, the one guy would lose. Same thing when writing a story in which Batman wins. They would have to explain the following:

1) Why did Superman not hear Batman's blood pumping and stop him by flying so fast towards him that Batman couldn't do anything and cuffing Batman to a telephone pole in Alaska.

2) Why would Superman not gently blow Batman away before he even got close. It would be a lot like going against the wind in a hurricane.

3) How would Batman match Superman's speed?

4) How many frequent flyer miles would Bruce Wayne rack up getting back to Metropolis or Gotham after every punch since everytime Batman were to try and punch Superman, literally Superman could grab his punches, take him to a different location in the planet and leave him in different places before Batman would even realize what happened. He'd think he just got teleported to Asia somehow mid punch. I guess he better have his Batman credit card, at least he never leaves the cave without it.

5) They would have to explain lastly why Batman would be able to do anything that the entire military could not? Kryptonite? How does that do anything for Superman's speed and hearing when he could hear Batman's blood and heartbeat approaching him before Batman could do anything.

It's lovely how some people won't even consider the possibility of Superman beating batman and always use the tired "He's always prepared/prep time" excuse. It's almost as fun as when people say Superman is over-powered, but their favorite character would always be able to beat him.

Exactly, Superman lifted a Kryptonite island, how exactly would Batman do anything to "beat" him. Bane broke his back, and Superman is way faster and stronger than Bane. Batman beating Superman is as ridiculous of a thought as a man beating a god because he has prep time and non-lethal weapons.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

>implying Superman can hear his heartbeat

 

[MrsKent26]

Exactly, Superman lifted a Kryptonite island, how exactly would Batman do anything to "beat" him. Bane broke his back, and Superman is way faster and stronger than Bane. Batman beating Superman is as ridiculous of a thought as a man beating a god because he has prep time and non-lethal weapons.

I don't necessarily think the idea of batman beating superman is ridiculous, but I hate when people just assume batman will win "because preptime! hehehe!" Are they really going to just count superman out? Is he really so dumb that he never prepares for anything himself? It's all very annoying.

 

[Superman_200]

>implying Superman can hear his heartbeat

He can hear a bank alarm in space. Space.

There is nothing to carry sound in space and he could hear the alarm of a bank in space.

[YT]watch?v=rvJEvEvzr9g[/YT]

If the Daredevil can hear a guy's heartbeat in a courtroom, how can a guy who hears an alarm, in space, where sound can not travel, not hear a guy's heartbeat on Earth?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Yeah, it's perfectly fine for Superman to break how the universe works, but if Batman is any sort of challenge to Superman he's being a mary sue.



Rrrrrriiiiiiiiiiggggggghhhhhhhtttttt..............

 

[Superman_200]

Yeah, it's perfectly fine for Superman to break how the universe works, but if Batman is any sort of challenge to Superman he's being a mary sue.



Rrrrrriiiiiiiiiiggggggghhhhhhhtttttt..............

Okay, then put it this way.

Superman has beat Brainiac. A character that has the collective information and knowledge of other worlds as well as Earth.

Batman has the collective knowledge of a few scientists.

If Superman can/has beat Brainiac, how does Superman win?

And after you are done answering that question for me, tell me how does Batman match Superman's sheer speed alone?

 

[MrsKent26]

Okay, then put it this way.

Superman has beat Brainiac. A character that has the collective information and knowledge of other worlds as well as Earth.

Batman has the collective knowledge of a few scientists.

If Superman can/has beat Brainiac, how does Superman win?

And after you are done answering that question for me, tell me how does Batman match Superman's sheer speed alone?

I'd say this is partly due to a difference in writing.

Superman is almost always written better in his solo adventures. He's allowed to be smarter, faster, and stronger when there aren't other characters around that need to look good too. That's one reason why superman can take on Brainiac in one story and get beat by a seemingly lesser foe in another story.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

1) Superman doesn't beat people with his fists:

He uses his brain, same as Batman. The punches are just to put them down.

2) Batman doesn't need to do either. Look at my sig, you think Batman would bother with a physical confrontation? No, he could crush Superman at an emotional level, because that's how you beat Superman, emotionally.

 

[Superman_200]

1) Superman doesn't beat people with his fists:

He uses his brain, same as Batman. The punches are just to put them down.

2) Batman doesn't need to do either. Look at my sig, you think Batman would bother with a physical confrontation? No, he could crush Superman at an emotional level, because that's how you beat Superman, emotionally.

If we are in a world where Brainiac could be a villain, then if Batman plans to beat Superman at an emotional level how could he do it? How could he top Brainiac. If Superman beats Brainiac and Batman beats Superman, then wouldn't Batman just beat Brainiac too?

If Superman can use his brain to beat Brainiac, then he can beat Batman. If a battle is won by brains the one who can beat Brainiac has to be the winner of any battle that is mental in nature because well, Brainiac has the collective knowledge of the universe.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Ever played the game, Rock (or Stone), Paper, Scissors?

Paper < Scissors and Scissors < Stone, so following your logic, it stands to reason that Paper < Stone as well.

No. Because that's not how the real world works. Hyenas in the wild can kill lions, but that doesn't mean the lion isn't the top predator. Brainiac doesn't try and fight emotionally, he tries to get what he wants and then leave (he's now actually a sort of archaeologist in the New 52 preserving dead worlds).


Bruce Wayne could:

Tell the world Clark is Superman

Reveal Superman brought the Kryptonians here

Use his billions to ruin Lois', Perry's, Martha's lives

and on and on and on....

BASICALLY imagine everything that makes Lex Luthor a threat, but then give him the knowledge that Clark is Superman.

 

[Pants Under Underpants]

Bane broke his back. He is just a "roided out jock". If Bane is a challenge, how would Superman, who can hear Batman's heartbeat approaching him, be able to beat him? He would only beat him if they wrote and purposely ignored some things that Superman could do to win.

Batman winning is kind of like in movies where one guy fights 10 guys and he is really only fighting one or two guys and the other eight are just dancing around. If all actually fought, the one guy would lose. Same thing when writing a story in which Batman wins. They would have to explain the following:

1) Why did Superman not hear Batman's blood pumping and stop him by flying so fast towards him that Batman couldn't do anything and cuffing Batman to a telephone pole in Alaska.

2) Why would Superman not gently blow Batman away before he even got close. It would be a lot like going against the wind in a hurricane.

3) How would Batman match Superman's speed?

4) How many frequent flyer miles would Bruce Wayne rack up getting back to Metropolis or Gotham after every punch since everytime Batman were to try and punch Superman, literally Superman could grab his punches, take him to a different location in the planet and leave him in different places before Batman would even realize what happened. He'd think he just got teleported to Asia somehow mid punch. I guess he better have his Batman credit card, at least he never leaves the cave without it.

5) They would have to explain lastly why Batman would be able to do anything that the entire military could not? Kryptonite? How does that do anything for Superman's speed and hearing when he could hear Batman's blood and heartbeat approaching him before Batman could do anything.



Exactly, Superman lifted a Kryptonite island, how exactly would Batman do anything to "beat" him. Bane broke his back, and Superman is way faster and stronger than Bane. Batman beating Superman is as ridiculous of a thought as a man beating a god because he has prep time and non-lethal weapons.

I love the idea of number 5, Superman_200.
Batman is in the middle of fighting Superman, goes to throw a punch, gets grabbed by Superman. Three next thing he realizes, he's in Cairo or something. Superman advises Batman to stand down, then flies off. Then Bruce has to call Alfred to send the bat plane, and witty dialogue ensues.