Because I'm The Wrestling Thread, And I'm... Awesome!

[chapin]

wouldn't be awesome to see a match between JBL and Barrett?





just kidding..

 

[Hunter Rider]

The quality of the matches hasn't been any better but it's certainly been more personal and WWE has made a bigger deal out of it.

The crowd barely give a **** though do they? and why is it personal? I mean Del Rio beat him up because of what exactly? it just seems they stuck him with a guy that could work like the guys he was used to working in Mexico and didn't think about why.

I didn't say anywhere that I think Del Rio should be winning the world title. As it is he's already a semi main eventer. My comments about Del Rio being in the Main Event is just me realizing that Vince is a big fan of his and it's the most likely thing to happen.

I don't think Dolph is any better than Del Rio as an all around performer.

I wasn't saying YOU did I was talking about the general verbiage that is flying around about Del Rio. Yes Vince is a fan, well he wants another Latin star.....but Vince clearly digs Ziggler as how many guys get back to back main events with Cena where they are allowed to look his equal?

I think Dolph edges him because while Del Rio has the better gimmick both are similar as characters and Dolph has had much better matches, Del Rio has yet to prove he can have a great match.

 

[Project862006]

i dont dislike alberto i think he is great i just think dolph is a better performer with way better matches

 

[Metallo]

I didn't say anything about Del Rio BEATING Edge, I said he's the one who needs to be FEUDING with Edge, not Ziggler.

But don't you want Del Rio to eventually be champion? If he's going to feud with Edge its going to do him no good if he NEVER wins the title.

Who else on Smackdown could Del Rio TAKE the title from that would matter at this point that would make a win matter? Takers a part timer at best these days and Kane is...Kane. If he's going to be given the run froam world title win Edge is one of the few left. But he's not even on Edge's level yet to FEUD with him. At least Ziggler has been a CHAMPION.

The way Raw is stacked Del Rio would have a much harder time getting a title shot so its not gonna happen there for a long time.

Thats why its better for Del Rio to be built up instead of being put in the main event immediately. it allows him to build credibility. Being put into a main event feud with Edge were he has ZERO chance of winning right now is pointless. If he's built up for a shot later down the line it makes things far more intriguing.

Del Rio beat Rey Mysterio? Chavo Guerrero also beat Rey Mysterio AFTER he was world champion. Congratulations boys. beating Rey alone doesn't suddenly make him important enough to go after the world title.

 

[Wylie Times]

disagree with that i think dolph is a much better in ring performer

his matches with Kofi/Daniel Bryan/Kaval/Cena/ > all of Del Rio's matches so far

You do realize Del Rio has been wrestling for years outside of WWE right? Dolph is by no means a much better performer than Dos Caras. There's a reason WWE sought him out.

 

[Project862006]

del rio should feud with Christiane before he feuds with Edge

atleast there is actually history there since he injured him

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

The main issue here is you are taking the idea that because YOU think a guy isn't ready and isn't interesting, he should be in the main event, however you are only one person and clearly the fan base and more importantly the WWE management feel Ziggler is firing on all fronts otherwise he wouldn't get the shot.

There is also the art of drawing people in by the matches you have, something you discount and think promos and soap opera angles supersede and discount the importance of the athlete to marry with the entertainer, that is fine but clearly WWE are still trying to allow the art of being a pro wrestler mean something.

I'll give you an example, The Rock, massively over without a doubt, but most of his matches bore me to tears unless he is in the ring with someone that can work and lead him to a good in ring story.

you are advocating giving a guy in Del Rio a push based on a JBL rip off gimmick and no good matches, as opposed to an equally over guy with a smug jock gimmick but plenty of high end matches.

You're right, I am talking about what I want to see. Hate to sound like LastSunrise1981 here, but I know what I want, and I don't want Dolph Ziggler. I don't find him to be an interesting character, therefore I don't want to see him in the main event. Period. It's that simple.

I guess the difference between myself and Sunrise is that I don't assume the WWE is going to cater to my demands, and I'm not going to call someone else stupid for disagreeing with me. But I can still have the mindset that Dolph Ziggler, at this point in time, is not what I want from a WWE main eventer, and thus, I don't want to see him in the main event, and his inclusion in the main event holds a negative impact on my interest and enjoyment of the product.

Again, I am not discounting the athletic ability that goes into being a professional wrestler, and I certainly appreciate the guys who bring those high levels of athleticism to the table. And I've said it a few times during this debate that I acknowledge that Ziggler is good in the ring. I am liking what I see from Ziggler in ring recently.

But, as it is scripted entertainment, you need to have a good character as well. And since Ziggler does not (at this point), he shouldn't be in the main event. He should be put in a position where he can develop his character, and make it interesting, so that he can be in the main event in the future. But as of right now, he does not have the character that I want to see from a main eventer.

As far as the Del Rio comparison goes, while you may say that Del Rio's character is merely more "theatrical" due to the cars, pyros, and Ricardo, I could say that Ziggler's in ring performance is merely more "theatrical" than Del Rio's, because he has a couple unique moves in the Zig Zag and the Fame-Asser. Outside of a much cooler looking finisher, I don't see anything that Ziggler does in the ring better than Del Rio. Both are pretty solid with their in ring capabilities, but Ziggler has a more stylish finisher in the Zig Zag than Del Rio has in his arm bar. That's really about it.

 

[Project862006]

by saying Ziggler is more theatrical in ring you actually mean more Athletic

i think ziggler bumps and sells better the way he takes certain moves reminds me of RVD

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

del rio should feud with Christiane before he feuds with Edge

atleast there is actually history there since he injured him

If it wasn't for the fact that we're on Road to WrestleMania time, and I don't think that Del Rio vs. Christian is a WM main event, I'd say that Del Rio needs to win the title from Edge, setting up a return feud between Christian and Del Rio, which would allow Edge and Christian to pair up for a little bit, that could set up a possible future feud between Edge and Christian. That would make me happy.

 

[Metallo]

He's a better character....How well was Dolph doing before they paired him with Vickie? You may not like Del Rio but he's been getting legit heat since his debut. Ziggler didn't first start getting heat till he was being associated with Jericho, then he didn't get it back again until they paired him up with Vickie.

Dolph went on a long streak of loosing to Rey Mysterio when he first went after the IC title. Things like that didn't help him at all. Once he got a better showcase of what he could do he's grown a great deal.

Working with Daniel Bryan and getting a ton of praise for It had nothing to do with Vickie. And it wasn't just the athletic part but the psychology if those matches. Dolph has shown character. And he's gotten to show more as time goes on.

Del Rio has been GIVEN the royal treatment in terms of presentation. Of course its easier for him to get legit heat. Ziggler was never given that much pomp and attention.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

by saying Ziggler is more theatrical in ring you actually mean more Athletic

i think ziggler bumps and sells better the way he takes certain moves reminds me of RVD

No, he's not more athletic than Del Rio, he just has a more stylish finisher that's more of a "wow" factor than a spinning armbar.

 

[Metallo]

You're right, I am talking about what I want to see. Hate to sound like LastSunrise1981 here, but I know what I want, and I don't want Dolph Ziggler. I don't find him to be an interesting character, therefore I don't want to see him in the main event. Period. It's that simple.

I guess the difference between myself and Sunrise is that I don't assume the WWE is going to cater to my demands, and I'm not going to call someone else stupid for disagreeing with me. But I can still have the mindset that Dolph Ziggler, at this point in time, is not what I want from a WWE main eventer, and thus, I don't want to see him in the main event, and his inclusion in the main event holds a negative impact on my interest and enjoyment of the product.

Again, I am not discounting the athletic ability that goes into being a professional wrestler, and I certainly appreciate the guys who bring those high levels of athleticism to the table. And I've said it a few times during this debate that I acknowledge that Ziggler is good in the ring. I am liking what I see from Ziggler in ring recently.

But, as it is scripted entertainment, you need to have a good character as well. And since Ziggler does not (at this point), he shouldn't be in the main event. He should be put in a position where he can develop his character, and make it interesting, so that he can be in the main event in the future. But as of right now, he does not have the character that I want to see from a main eventer.

As far as the Del Rio comparison goes, while you may say that Del Rio's character is merely more "theatrical" due to the cars, pyros, and Ricardo, I could say that Ziggler's in ring performance is merely more "theatrical" than Del Rio's, because he has a couple unique moves in the Zig Zag and the Fame-Asser. Outside of a much cooler looking finisher, I don't see anything that Ziggler does in the ring better than Del Rio. Both are pretty solid with their in ring capabilities, but Ziggler has a more stylish finisher in the Zig Zag than Del Rio has in his arm bar. That's really about it.

Money talks though. You might prefer Del Rio but WWE's own polls show the PEOPLE, all the ones that buy tickets and ppvs, have been impressed by Ziggler. Wheres the PROOF that other people at large, besides yourself, are all head over heels in fan love with Del Rio? Just you watching Del Rio on Smackdown isn't going to ge their ratings up or make them money. Its people at large. And the WWE fans have said that Ziggler is the guy thats impressing them.

 

[Metallo]

No, he's not more athletic than Del Rio, he just has a more stylish finisher that's more of a "wow" factor than a spinning armbar.

Zigglers a better athlete. Del Rio is VERY athletic for his size but Ziggler is a better pure athlete.

 

[Project862006]

del rio is just easier to see as a main eventer imo

you debut with fancy suits
white scarf around his neck
personal ring announcer
raining pyro
fancy cars with personal license plates
not to mention he is 6'5 263lbs
talks with an accent
debut against rey mysterio

same reason people saw Carlito as a main eventer like star when he first came on the scene

very cool(LOL) vignettes to hype his debut
debuts against john cena
Caribbean attire
accent
catchphrase
etc.

 

[Metamorpho1977]

But don't you want Del Rio to eventually be champion? If he's going to feud with Edge its going to do him no good if he NEVER wins the title.

Who else on Smackdown could Del Rio TAKE the title from that would matter at this point that would make a win matter? Takers a part timer at best these days and Kane is...Kane. If he's going to be given the run froam world title win Edge is one of the few left. But he's not even on Edge's level yet to FEUD with him. At least Ziggler has been a CHAMPION.

The way Raw is stacked Del Rio would have a much harder time getting a title shot so its not gonna happen there for a long time.

Thats why its better for Del Rio to be built up instead of being put in the main event immediately. it allows him to build credibility. Being put into a main event feud with Edge were he has ZERO chance of winning right now is pointless. If he's built up for a shot later down the line it makes things far more intriguing.

Del Rio beat Rey Mysterio? Chavo Guerrero also beat Rey Mysterio AFTER he was world champion. Congratulations boys. beating Rey alone doesn't suddenly make him important enough to go after the world title.

I could beat Rey Mysterio.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Money talks though. You might prefer Del Rio but WWE's own polls show the PEOPLE, all the ones that buy tickets and ppvs, have been impressed by Ziggler. Wheres the PROOF that other people at large, besides yourself, are all head over heels in fan love with Del Rio? Just you watching Del Rio on Smackdown isn't going to ge their ratings up or make them money. Its people at large. And the WWE fans have said that Ziggler is the guy thats impressing them.

You're right, I am talking about what I prefer. That's all I can speak on.

Never once did I say that WWE should change their plans for me. I can only speak on what I want, and how I feel. WWE is going to do what WWE does. It's up to me to decide if I like it or not. And that's all I can speak on.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

del rio is just easier to see as a main eventer imo

you debut with fancy suits
white scarf around his neck
personal ring announcer
raining pyro
fancy cars with personal license plates
not to mention he is 6'5 263lbs
talks with an accent
debut against rey mysterio

same reason people saw Carlito as a main eventer like star when he first came on the scene

very cool(LOL) vignettes to hype his debut
debuts against john cena
Caribbean attire
accent
catchphrase
etc.

For what it's worth, I never saw Carlito as a main eventer.

Spitting an apple in someone's face does not equal main event in my eyes.

 

[Project862006]

to be honest del rio will become champ first he is showcased more hell he was on raw for no reason lol

 

[Metallo]

There is a reason why wrestling is on channels like USA, SyFy, and Spike, and not ESPN. Because it's scripted, it's theatrical. It's a soap, as you say. It's about character.

ESPN used to show AWA wrestling even in the 80's and it was as soap opera as ever then. That was back when the Road Warriors and Sgt. Slaugher were a part of the AWA. ESPN Classics still show old AWA stuff.

NBC has a long history of showing legitimate sports and has had a long history with the WWE. Dick Ebersol was instrumental in getting SNME on NBC and they brought it back in 2006.

The Turner Networks were known for years for baseball and basketball coverage but they also showed WCW. Wasn't Braves baseball one of the big things on TBS for years and years in the early 80s?

And finally TNA was shown for a year on Fox Sports Net.

The reason you don't see WWE on a network like ESPN now is...why would either side need it today? Not because its soap opera. WWE didn't need ESPN at all. WWE had a deal with the USA network going back to the early 80's and ESPN had The AWA. TBS had NWA/Crockett programming and later bought them out to form the WCW we later saw.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I guess the difference between myself and Sunrise is that I don't assume the WWE is going to cater to my demands, and I'm not going to call someone else stupid for disagreeing with me. But I can still have the mindset that Dolph Ziggler, at this point in time, is not what I want from a WWE main eventer, and thus, I don't want to see him in the main event, and his inclusion in the main event holds a negative impact on my interest and enjoyment of the product.

That's fair enough, he is EXACTLY what I want in a main event, after months of crap like Taker vs Kane, Edge vs Kane and Orton vs Barrett I am really looking forward to having two guys that can work in the title match.

But, as it is scripted entertainment, you need to have a good character as well. And since Ziggler does not (at this point), he shouldn't be in the main event. He should be put in a position where he can develop his character, and make it interesting, so that he can be in the main event in the future. But as of right now, he does not have the character that I want to see from a main eventer.

The bolded part though is just your view, clearly overall the view is different as he's being booked with Cena and now Edge.

As far as the Del Rio comparison goes, while you may say that Del Rio's character is merely more "theatrical" due to the cars, pyros, and Ricardo, I could say that Ziggler's in ring performance is merely more "theatrical" than Del Rio's, because he has a couple unique moves in the Zig Zag and the Fame-Asser. Outside of a much cooler looking finisher, I don't see anything that Ziggler does in the ring better than Del Rio. Both are pretty solid with their in ring capabilities, but Ziggler has a more stylish finisher in the Zig Zag than Del Rio has in his arm bar. That's really about it.

That's isn't what I mean by better worker, being a great worker has very little to do with moves or how stylish they are. CM Punk is a better worker than both of them but he isn't flashy, Ziggler does the little things in matches better than Del Rio, plus he's technically better and more athletically gifted. Del Rio is a solid worker though and needs more matches with people his size to see what he can do.

If it wasn't for the fact that we're on Road to WrestleMania time, and I don't think that Del Rio vs. Christian is a WM main event, I'd say that Del Rio needs to win the title from Edge, setting up a return feud between Christian and Del Rio, which would allow Edge and Christian to pair up for a little bit, that could set up a possible future feud between Edge and Christian. That would make me happy.

This is where my problem lies in this debate, I think Ziggler deserves a shot yes, but I'd say it will take close to another year before he should have the belt. I think Del Rio will get an over-pushed shot at Mania, but he is nowhere near ready to be the champion, yet you think it's fine for him to be.

 

[Metallo]

The crowd barely give a **** though do they? and why is it personal? I mean Del Rio beat him up because of what exactly? it just seems they stuck him with a guy that could work like the guys he was used to working in Mexico and didn't think about why.

He beat up on Rey at first because he's a bully and saw little Rey as a commoner. It didn't begin for personal reasons. Del Rio was just opportunistic. There was nothing personal about it at first.

 

[Hunter Rider]

You do realize Del Rio has been wrestling for years outside of WWE right? Dolph is by no means a much better performer than Dos Caras. There's a reason WWE sought him out.

I've mentioned that more than once but it doesn't mean he will make a great WWE wrestler as the styles are different. Take a look at him and the fact Vince is in need of a new Latin star as Mysterio breaks down, there is your answer as to why the WWE sought him out.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I would sooner see Husky Harris in a main event than Dolph Ziggler

They would have to change Husky's name first. Nobody would ever take him seriously if they don't change his name.

 

[BlackLantern]

Nobody takes him seriously because he looks like 10 pounds of oatmeal shoved in to a 5 pound bag

 

[Metallo]

That's isn't what I mean by better worker, being a great worker has very little to do with moves or how stylish they are. CM Punk is a better worker than both of them but he isn't flashy, Ziggler does the little things in matches better than Del Rio, plus he's technically better and more athletically gifted. Del Rio is a solid worker though and needs more matches with people his size to see what he can do.

Judging by how high Ziggler vs Bryan ranked and the reaction the people had theres pretty strong evidence that Ziggler is a good worker. A good worker is someone who knows how to do certain things to get a reaction and they clearly got one hell of a reaction.