Best CBM villain ever?

[DACrowe]

I liked Bane quite a bit actually. But the "twist" retroactively ruined the character. He was essentially, a silver tongued lap dog.

Disagree with this. I think some fans (I'm not saying you specifically) take umbrage with the fact that Bane is working with Talia and cares for her. It does not make him al lackey or weak, it actually gives him some depth and again defies expectations of him being a hulking brute.

Honestly, I think it works perfectly fine. Nobody would call Darth Vader just a lackey or lap dog to the Emperor. And like Vader (who, yes, is of course the better villain), Bane has complete autonomy to do things his way. He breaks the Bat. He holds Gotham hostage. And then in the end he again chooses to ignore Talia and was ready to execute Bruce until Catwoman showed up (and yes, I like that scene too, because I like this Catwoman ).

Batman already beat Bane, I am fine with Bane being unceremoniously disposed of by Catwoman, because again, that is subversive and somehow fitting for such a proud and arrogant man that he would be tossed aside, and the story again focuses on Bruce and his relationship with Gotham City.

In any event, people still quote Bane today and mention Bane in conversation. He had a genuine impact on pop culture unlike many, many, many Marvel villains that people keep mentioning in this thread.

Not a bad list Crowe

I'd pull out:
Bane- Stupid Plan, Boring look, and obv the voice
Nicholson- Hasn't held up over the years, imo, still good, but too cartoony for my taste
Two Face- Barely got to become a villain, came off more "guy with problems"
Kilgrave and Kingpin- As great as they are, this is CBM villains, not CBTV

and I'd Add:
Loki- Obv, you crazy, son

I'd also lower Magneto for oversaturation

but otherwise, pretty solid, tough-to-argue-with list

Heh, thanks and see above about Bane.

As for your other points, Nicholson's Joker is iconic. It has been close to 30 years and people still remember it and talk about it. And while Ledger is better, Nicholson still overshadows most super villains in movies, be they WB, Marvel, Fox, or Sony. It is just a wonderful performance. OTT and cartoonish? Sure, but so is Burton's heightened gothic, pulp style. Most of all it leaves an impression and is immensely entertaining to watch.

I agree with Two-Face, he is more a tragic hero than a villain. That is what makes him so good and rare in this genre.

But if I were to take out the Marvel Television villains (aka the best villains of the MCU), I would definitely place in Terrence Stamp's General Zod and maybe, maybe Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin over Loki. Dafoe's costume is horrible but it is a fun performance and he is a real bastard in it in the best kind of way. Loki... he is just too funny. He's too comedic and pathetic. Never once does Loki seem like he'll succeed, which the script even calls out. He "lacks conviction."

While he is an entertaining character that fatal flaw of personality that even Whedon made explicit is what prevents him from being a menacing or truly imposing villain. He honestly is just as much a cartoon as Nicholson or Dafoe in terms of presentation and plotting, it is just Hiddleston is so good that he can overcome how two-dimensional the character is. Albeit, Whedon also did his best to give him some color, but it mostly, again, came from comedy.

 

[DACrowe]

Kingpin is sublime. I am in awe every time he is on screen.

Yes, I put Purple Man/Kilgrave above him but that is completely arbitrary. They are both so good, and D'Onofrio just showing up for a few scenes in season 2 made all the difference. I didn't realize how much I missed his performance until he stole the whole second season in that scene with Matt. Just a marvelous creation where material, writing, and actor improve on what we previously knew of the character.

Kilgrave is also better in the show than the comics. They took these memorable and insidious characters and made them somehow both more vile and human when putting them on screen. That is great adaptation.

 

[BH/HHH]

Easy answer for me

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I definitely think Kingpin would have had a Bane-like impact on pop culture if he was in a high profile movie instead of a Netflix series. He's very memorable and quotable.

 

[Slade W]

Like people have said, there have been very good villains on the shows, as well as the movies. Kingpin is fantastic (Kilgrave supposedly is too), Malcolm Merlyn/The Dark Archer, Slade Wilson/Deathstroke, Damien Darhk (all on Arrow) and Eobard Thawne/The Reverse Flash on The Flash were very good too. I also really liked Falcone on Gotham.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I find it really hard to place where Netflix belongs. The shows are split up into episodes like a tv series, but otherwise function more like films with the entire series made and released at once and seasons being more like sequels than an episodic continuation. They certainly don't follow a tv schedule.

They are kind of a weird tv/film hybrid.

 

[Wildcard]

It not matter that Magneto be used a lot. He still a great villain.

It does matter. I don't care how great a villain is, repeated appearances can wear them out quickly, as is the case for Magneto with me. He's been shown so much that I don't even care to see him. When he does something, I'm not in awe...I'm just waiting for him to go away. Which is sad, because Fassbender is great, but Magneto is the most over-used character in comic book movies. Period.

So yes, it does matter. Especially when he's appeared in all but three of the X-Men movies, a franchise that has a total of 9 films.

It'd be like Loki being in every single MCU movie. He'd become less effective, annoying and over-used.

 

[DACrowe]

I definitely think Kingpin would have had a Bane-like impact on pop culture if he was in a high profile movie instead of a Netflix series. He's very memorable and quotable.

Very much agreed.

 

[DACrowe]

It does matter. I don't care how great a villain is, repeated appearances can wear them out quickly, as is the case for Magneto with me. He's been shown so much that I don't even care to see him. When he does something, I'm not in awe...I'm just waiting for him to go away. Which is sad, because Fassbender is great, but Magneto is the most over-used character in comic book movies. Period.

So yes, it does matter. Especially when he's appeared in all but three of the X-Men movies, a franchise that has a total of 9 films.

It'd be like Loki being in every single MCU movie. He'd become less effective, annoying and over-used.

I would say Batman and Spider-Man might be the most overused characters in comic book movies. They have each been rebooted a lot now, and to diminishing results in the case of BvS and The Amazing Spider-Man films.

Another way to put this is Michael Fassbender is always the highlight as Magneto in his films, just like McKellen. I actually agree Magneto didn't need to be in Apocalypse (he was absolutely necessary in FC and DOFP), but he was still the best part.

I agree that the character needs a break, but he has not reached the point of diminishing returns as a character (though perhaps he has as a "hype" machine). By contrast DC using Batman in everything now is starting to get very tiresome, though it is no fault of Affleck in my opinion.

 

[First Avenger]

I find it really hard to place where Netflix belongs. The shows are split up into episodes like a tv series, but otherwise function more like films with the entire series made and released at once and seasons being more like sequels than an episodic continuation. They certainly don't follow a tv schedule.

They are kind of a weird tv/film hybrid.

Yeah that's strange. Strange,but awesome.

 

[Wildcard]

I would say Batman and Spider-Man might be the most overused characters in comic book movies. They have each been rebooted a lot now, and to diminishing results in the case of BvS and The Amazing Spider-Man films.

Another way to put this is Michael Fassbender is always the highlight as Magneto in his films, just like McKellen. I actually agree Magneto didn't need to be in Apocalypse (he was absolutely necessary in FC and DOFP), but he was still the best part.

I agree that the character needs a break, but he has not reached the point of diminishing returns as a character (though perhaps he has as a "hype" machine). By contrast DC using Batman in everything now is starting to get very tiresome, though it is no fault of Affleck in my opinion.

I agree with you wholesale. It's true, Batman & Spider-Man collectively have 13 movies, five of which are fairly recent.

So I can definitely agree there, which is why the DCEU needs to be introducing some of its lesser known characters as the MCU has done. It keeps the main players from getting stale and offers audiences something new.

In Magneto's case, his hype is certainly dying down from over-saturation. I won't lie and say the performances are bad, they aren't. I'm just tired of him being the focal point of every film.

The Joker is one of my favorite villains ever but if he was in every single Batman movie, what would be the point? That's why I can't really put him on my list...he annoys me too much.

Now, I'm not saying everyone should agree with me or anything like that. Just my own little $0.02.

 

[The_Manhunter]

Ledger's Joker.

 

[Guard82]

Disagree with this. I think some fans (I'm not saying you specifically) take umbrage with the fact that Bane is working with Talia and cares for her. It does not make him al lackey or weak, it actually gives him some depth and again defies expectations of him being a hulking brute.

Honestly, I think it works perfectly fine. Nobody would call Darth Vader just a lackey or lap dog to the Emperor. And like Vader (who, yes, is of course the better villain), Bane has complete autonomy to do things his way. He breaks the Bat. He holds Gotham hostage. And then in the end he again chooses to ignore Talia and was ready to execute Bruce until Catwoman showed up

In any event, people still quote Bane today and mention Bane in conversation. He had a genuine impact on pop culture unlike many, many, many Marvel villains that people keep mentioning in this thread.

I agree with you completely. I loved Bane in the movie, and like you said, he made an impact on pop culture because he was so memorable. While I had problems with Talia's role in the story (because she felt shoehorned in and wasn't very well-written), it didn't change my positive assessment of Bane as an antagonist.

As for your other points, Nicholson's Joker is iconic. It has been close to 30 years and people still remember it and talk about it. And while Ledger is better, Nicholson still overshadows most super villains in movies, be they WB, Marvel, Fox, or Sony. It is just a wonderful performance. OTT and cartoonish? Sure, but so is Burton's heightened gothic, pulp style. Most of all it leaves an impression and is immensely entertaining to watch.

I agree again. Nicholson's Joker is very memorable and charismatic. It's no accident that people still quote him and reference him throughout popular culture. He was so entertaining that he compelled everyone's attention.

Loki... he is just too funny. He's too comedic and pathetic. Never once does Loki seem like he'll succeed, which the script even calls out. He "lacks conviction."

While he is an entertaining character that fatal flaw of personality that even Whedon made explicit is what prevents him from being a menacing or truly imposing villain.

I have to disagree with you on Loki because I thought he was an amazing villain. He's got an intricate backstory, interesting relationships with other Asgardian characters like Thor and Odin, a layered personality with complex motivations, and a regal and charismatic image. I don't think it's any accident that Loki is as popular as he is. And while he certainly can be quite amusing and entertaining, he's still a serious antagonist and can be quite menacing. His first scene in the Avengers movie where he attacks SHIELD to obtain the tesseract is one of his most eerie, menacing moments.

They took these memorable and insidious characters [Kingpin and Kilgrave] and made them somehow both more vile and human when putting them on screen. That is great adaptation.

Totally agreed. They adapted the Kingpin and the Purple Man brilliantly in their respective shows.

 

[Guard82]

Like people have said, there have been very good villains on the shows, as well as the movies. Kingpin is fantastic (Kilgrave supposedly is too), Malcolm Merlyn/The Dark Archer, Slade Wilson/Deathstroke, Damien Darhk (all on Arrow) and Eobard Thawne/The Reverse Flash on The Flash were very good too. I also really liked Falcone on Gotham.

Yes, thank you for mentioning those live-action DC villains on TV. I would also add Wentworth Miller's Captain Cold/Leonard Snart to your excellent list.

 

[OutOfBoose]

It's easy to pick number 1, but it's much harder for the rest. I can't say I saw all CBMs and related TV shows, so maybe some villains are overlooked. Anyway, I liked the most:

1. The Joker (Heath Ledger);
2. Catwoman (Michelle Pfeiffer);
3. Bane (Tom Hardy);
4. The Joker (Jack Nicholson);
5. Loki

Honorable mentions:

1. The Winter Soldier;
2. Two-Face (Aaron Eckhart);
3. The Scarecrow;
4. Faora-Ul.

 

[Bayne]

I would say Batman and Spider-Man might be the most overused characters in comic book movies. They have each been rebooted a lot now, and to diminishing results in the case of BvS and The Amazing Spider-Man films.

Another way to put this is Michael Fassbender is always the highlight as Magneto in his films, just like McKellen. I actually agree Magneto didn't need to be in Apocalypse (he was absolutely necessary in FC and DOFP), but he was still the best part.

I agree that the character needs a break, but he has not reached the point of diminishing returns as a character (though perhaps he has as a "hype" machine). By contrast DC using Batman in everything now is starting to get very tiresome, though it is no fault of Affleck in my opinion.

The most overused character in CBMs (and I say this as a fan of the character) is easily Wolverine. He basically takes over all the X-men movies except FC and Apocalypse, on top of getting his own movies as well (which aren't even that good - I mean, I like the Wolverine more or less, but I can't defend large swaths of it). And even in the two movies he doesn't star in, he's still a random scene-stealer (in FC in a good, funny way, in Ap. in a bad, brings the entire movie to a halt for no reason way).


Magneto definitely comes in second after Wolverine for many of the same reasons as Wolverine. He's been less of a problem overall because his presence hasn't stopped them from creating other great villains as well, and I agree he needed to be a big part of both First Class and Days of Future Past - and those were both great stories. But at this point, literally every x-men movie has used the Xavier/Magneto philosophical dispute as the central axis of the story and it's gotten massively old. Not every story has to focus completely and totally on whether mutants and humans can coexist - there are other interesting aspects of this world to explore. But as long as they keep dragging Magneto back into the center of everything, they have to keep making it all about proving him right or wrong.

And it was a huge problem in Apocalypse, in which Magneto (regardless of Fassbender's excellent performance) was one of the worst things in the movie because his very presence was completely tacked on and constantly muddying the waters of what the movie was even supposed to be about. It was really sad to see the final fight against Apocalypse - one of the most classic villains in the franchise - reduced to a bunch of placeholder 'fight scenes' marking time while people tried to convince Magneto (and then Storm) to switch sides.

Batman and Spider-man have had problems with diminishing returns at times, but those diminishing returns mainly occurred in their own film series without negatively affecting other characters. And the Nolan trilogy proves that a classic character like that can successfully come back from a diminishing returns situation and provide new stories that are truly worth watching.

ETA: Incidentally, after thinking a bit, I'm not even sure how Batman and Spider-man even qualify as overused to begin with. Throwing multiple very different versions of a character onto a pile and acting like all versions are the same makes absolutely no sense to me. And even if you do that, Spider-man still has had fewer movies than many other characters to date (only six total so far, and that's counting civil war which is really a glorified cameo). Batman technically has had more, but not many more and his movies have been spread out across almost 3 decades. He's currently sitting at 8 movies and a cameo (9 if you count the Adam West 'movie').

By comparison: Wolverine (only on screen since 2000) already has six movies and 2 cameos. Iron Man (only here since 2008) has six movies and a cameo. Captain America and Thor both have five movies and a cameo. Magneto and Professor Xavier both have six movies and a cameo. Mystique has six movies. Superman has seven, though they are even more spread out than Batman's.

 

[Steamteck]

Loki and Magneto everyone else pretty much pales in comparison for me.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Joker-Heath
Catwoman-Pfeiffer
Doc Ock
Ra's al Ghul
Kingpin

 

[ernesth100]

Magneto-Fox

Loki-Marvel
Heath Ledger Joker-DC

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Magneto-Fox

Loki-Marvel
Heath Ledger Joker-DC

Agreed with these. If TV shows allowed then Kingpin and Kilgrave for Marvel.

 

[Mandias]

Ledger - Joker

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I liked Bane quite a bit actually. But the "twist" retroactively ruined the character. He was essentially, a silver tongued lap dog.

If you call the general a queen's lapdog, I guess that description would fit him just fine.

 

[DOBSON10]

1. Heath Ledger - Joker: Not only is Ledger's performance great, but the writing of the character, IMO, is even greater. Filled with classic moments, interrogation scene obviously, the "Unstoppable force, meets immovable object" scene as well. Will be tough to top.

2. Jack Nicholson - Joker: The most quotable villain ever, probably be lying if nostalgia didn't play a small part in this ranking but still, I think he was great.

3. Ian McKellen - Magneto: He was great in the role in every movie except of DOFP, where he wasn't given much at all to do and seemed to kind of phone it in, probably for that reason. X-Men the Last Stand gets a ton of flak, but I thought he was great in that movie. His speech "Your cities will not be safe, your streets will not be safe, YOU will not be safe" is an absolute classic villain moment for me, one of the best.

4. Danny DeVito - Penguin: I know alot of people didn't like the re-interpretation of Penguin, but while it's not my preference for the character either, I still thought DeVito gave a great and creepy performance in the role.

5. Michael Fassbender - Magneto: He's been great as well. Obviously the scene at the White House is a standout, as well as the Missile scene on the beach in First Class.

6. Michelle Pfeiffer - Catwoman: Origin being alittle flaky aside, a truly great and memorable performance. Captured the duality of the character very well. And damn, she looked good in the catsuit lol.

7. Tom Hardy - Bane: Anti-climatic ending aside, he was great throughout the movie and the scene in the Football stadium & the sewer fight were standout scenes. Also, no problem with his voice, minus a few tough to make out lines.

8. Michael Shannon - Zod: I think this performance is vastly underrated. One of the few villains in CBM history that actually felt like a real threat to the hero, IMO. I'll get bashed for this, but also lightyears better than Terrance Stamp's cheesy version, no offense to Stamp, it just doesn't age well at all and I saw those movies as an adult, not as a youth, probably feel different if I did, nostalgia reasons.

9. Sebastian Stan - Winter Soldier: Not technically a villain, because he's a brainwashed super soldier but I thought his silent relentless determination to finish his mission made him the most menacing MCU villain to date in Captain America: Winter Soldier.

10. Tom Hiddleston - Loki: He's really good in the role, a perfect fit. He's just a bit whiny sometimes and too much of a whipping boy for me to rank him any higher. Wish he was played more like his scene with Black Window on the Battleship in The Avengers more often, that was his major highlight for me.

11. Brian Cox - William Stryker: Tough to put him this low, because he is really great in this role but he's still played as more of a side villain to Magneto. Brain Cox is just a really great actor though, this role was no exception.

12. Liam Neeson - Ra's Al Ghul: Great actor, good performance. There was just something missing from it that makes me rank it lower. He just never felt like enough of a threat, lack of a truly good final showdown fight is part of that. Still very good, I mean, it's Neeson.

13. Aaron Eckhart - Two-Face: Obviously he was given much more to do as Harvey Dent and nailed that side of the role perfectly, but was still very good in his short turn as Two-Face.

14. Hugo Weaving - Red Skull: Could have been much higher on this list, but simply wasn't given alot to work with. Thought he was really good with what mediocre arch he was given.

15. Lee Pace - Ronan: Another one I think is really underrated. But I'm also a sucker for a villain that's ruthless just because he's an evil SOB. Thought he was pretty good until the dance off, where they literally made him stop right as he was about to win for a pretty ridiculous scene, anti-climatic, though I agree with the fact it did fit the tone of the movie.

 

[Iceman]

The Dark Knight version of the Joker is simply the best.

Runner ups:
Kingpin (Netflix)
Kilgrave (Netflix)
Magneto (Either one)
Doc Ock
Loki

My list would be exactly the same.

 

[Flint Marko]

I second that.