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Best Comic Book Movie of 2013?

Best Comic Book Movie of 2013?

  • G.I Joe: Retaliation

  • Iron Man 3

  • Man Of Steel

  • The Wolverine

  • Red 2

  • Kick-Ass 2

  • R.I.P.D

  • Thor: The Dark World

  • Other, apologies if I missed any


Results are only viewable after voting.
Really dont get that comment.

As for the rest, I cant agree, the comedy really hurt Iron Man 3 at essential times, like then Tony makes a joke 3 mins after Pepper supposedly dies, the woman who apparently is the most important thing in the world according to him. There were other moments as well and moments that should have been given more importance, like the arc reactor removal and Rhodey's role was one big joke.

MOS had Superman having to accept mankind and earth as his home and his people ahead of the race that gave birth to him. A few times he has to choose between remnants of his home world and his adopted one and he has to think about it every time. He earns the trust and faith of a whole planet by fighting for it with all his might.

Then there is the question as a child as to his nature and who he will grow up to be and how the Kents try and steer that in the right direction and then also finding out his parentage and choosing to stand proud in front of the human race despite their initial fear of them.

Making the choice of destroying any chance of Krypton being re-born to save humanity at the is the culmination of all this. MOS has a lot more substance than people give it credit for. It knew the importance of its emotional scenes as well by not throwing in a joke 3 mins after them.

I think the problem most people, including myself, have with Man of Steel is not that they don't understand what it was going for (essentially, what you just described) but rather that it failed to make any of these things work on a dramatic or interesting level.

The problem with trying to hang the story on Clark's choice between Earth and Krypton is that the film does a terrible job of convincing anyone that the choice would be difficult. This is partly because the choice isn't Earth or Krypton, it's genocide or a brand new Krypton alongside eugenics hungry criminals. The film makes the choice asinine by highlighting at every point that Clark always saves lives, even of people he doesn't like (unless they choose otherwise). Always, that's just what he does. Therefore, the critical moment in the film that's supposed to define the character as Superman arrives, and it's not remotely cathartic, exciting or interesting. It's a rote conclusion.

It may have been possible to convince an audience Clark would be into genocide if the film had offered a compelling reason that he feels alienated. All the film can muster though is 'because he has superpowers'. That's about as shallow a conflict as it gets, in this case. The film shows us he has loving relationships with at least his parents so he's clearly capable of finding them. If the film had explored any reasons why Clark couldn't form any worthwhile attachment to Earth, then it might mean something when he chose Earth.

These are pretty crippling flaws on their own, and that's not even getting into the mess that was Kryptonian society, the codex and all that predestination vagueness. People say Man of Steel lacks substance because it fails to make any of the (few) choices Clark make matter.
 
I've enjoyed MOS the more I watch, but the one thing that gets worse everytime is Pa Kent Vs Tornado. Can't stand the set piece or the execution of that scene dramatically.

Overall I enjoyed most these flicks more with multiple views with the exception of GI Joe and Red 2. Not a bad year, just no Dark Knight or Avenger level ones going on.
 
I think the problem most people, including myself, have with Man of Steel is not that they don't understand what it was going for (essentially, what you just described) but rather that it failed to make any of these things work on a dramatic or interesting level.

The problem with trying to hang the story on Clark's choice between Earth and Krypton is that the film does a terrible job of convincing anyone that the choice would be difficult. This is partly because the choice isn't Earth or Krypton, it's genocide or a brand new Krypton alongside eugenics hungry criminals. The film makes the choice asinine by highlighting at every point that Clark always saves lives, even of people he doesn't like (unless they choose otherwise). Always, that's just what he does. Therefore, the critical moment in the film that's supposed to define the character as Superman arrives, and it's not remotely cathartic, exciting or interesting. It's a rote conclusion.

It may have been possible to convince an audience Clark would be into genocide if the film had offered a compelling reason that he feels alienated. All the film can muster though is 'because he has superpowers'. That's about as shallow a conflict as it gets, in this case. The film shows us he has loving relationships with at least his parents so he's clearly capable of finding them. If the film had explored any reasons why Clark couldn't form any worthwhile attachment to Earth, then it might mean something when he chose Earth.

These are pretty crippling flaws on their own, and that's not even getting into the mess that was Kryptonian society, the codex and all that predestination vagueness. People say Man of Steel lacks substance because it fails to make any of the (few) choices Clark make matter.

If most people had all these problems that you talk about regarding MOS why is MOS far ahead on this poll?
 
If most people had all these problems that you talk about regarding MOS why is MOS far ahead on this poll?
That's irrelevant, but I'm fairly certain that Lorus was speaking in the context of people who didn't like the movie in the first place. Needless to say, people who do like it wouldn't find it unconvincing.
 
That's irrelevant, but I'm fairly certain that Lorus was speaking in the context of people who didn't like the movie in the first place. Needless to say, people who do like it wouldn't find it unconvincing.

Tru dat !

Lorus has some points there. I loved MOS, and still have to admit there are some flaws in the writing which could have been tightened up. Maybe Superman's choice could have been made more difficult, or Zod a more sympathetic character. But was that really necessary ?


The real story of the film is in two parts 1) Clark discovering who he is, and then 2) deciding who he's going to be

for the first part the key moment is the Flight sequence. That's when Clark really comes to terms with his identity. It's reflected in the scene when he comes home to Smallville, to tell Martha that he's finally discovered his origins, and as a result he's a changed man.


part 2) The choice between Earth and Krypton is part of this, but Lorus is right. It's not Krypton, but a bunch of eugenics-crazed mutinists. In fact, they represent everything that was wrong with Krypton, while Jor El was hoping that Kal would grow up to embody everything that had been great about it. The underlying point is that Krypton is dead, Jor El's AI says as much to Zod, when he's begging him to stop his genocidal madness (he might be pleading for Zod's life, not for humanity's as he knows that Kal will stop Zod, one way or another).

As for the choice. Really, we already know what choice Superman is going to make. If you know anything about Superman, you know that before you walk in the cinema door. Does the movie need to even bother to try and convince us it's a hard choice ?

The movie sets up Kal/Clark's character that he's a good guy who tries to help out, we know he's not going to go along with genocide.

In fact, I think that choice is made when Kal meets Jor El for the last time, on Zod's ship. When Jor El tells him that his original plan was for him to be a bridge between two worlds, the way he says it suggests that that's no longer an option. And when Jor El says "You can save all of them" he's referring to humanity. That's when the choice is made. From that point on Superman does nothing but oppose Zod.

The imagery was a bit heavy handed (e.g. in the mind-probe sequence the world engine specifically destroys Clark's home in Kansas to recreate Krypton, that could have been more balanced, perhaps if it had shown alongside the skulls, the majestic towers of a Krypton reborn -might have made the choice a little more balanced).

As an audience we do ask ourselves why Zod couldn't be reasonable - like go off and terraform Mars, or the Moon, or somewhere else ? But that's the point about his character, he can only see things one way, which was the fatal flaw in Kryptonian society and its eugenics program - the very thing Jor El was trying to avoid, via Kal's natural birth. The reason Superman says "Krypton had it's chance" before frying the scoutship controls (effectively removing Zod's chance of repopulating the Earth with Kryptonians) is that he's acknowledging that Krypton is dead and gone (as Jor El said). Even if Zod could restore it, it would only collapse on itself in time, as the original Krypton did, because of its flawed social engineering.
Well, that's my take on it anyway.

Maybe the choice isn't whether to abandon Earth for Krypton, but whether Krypton even should live again, having destroyed itself once already.
That's a key element of MOS, unlike the Donner films, the destruction of Krypton was a direct result of mistakes by the Kryptonian people (rather than a natural disaster).


And after all this, you might not be convinced. It still might not be logical or psychologically complex, or interesting for you. However, rote conclusion it might be, but IMHO it's still exciting as hell.

This is a Superman film, not Shakespeare, so that choice probably doesn't need the degree of psychological complexity or plotting that Lorus is ascribing to it. With respect, that's reminiscent of Ang Lee's Hulk (which I liked ) but MOS still works without it.

None of the analysis I've done is necessary. To be honest, we don't go to superhero films to have our intellects challenged. The Dark KNight is about as psychologically complex and challenging as super-hero films get anything more than that and you're in a different genre ( sorry, can't get past my dislike of IM 3, no disrespect to Visualiza or those who liked it).
If this aspect of MOS was so troubling for Lorus, he must have hated Avengers, because there's zero character depth, development or even a particularly deep story. Yet still it's tremendous fun, you just get swept away with the sheer good time feel of it.

I can accept people not liking MOS, that's fine. Particularly amongst Superman fans. I also freely admit it's not without its flaws, not so much in overall execution, but a couple of scenes stand out as being poorly written/thought out.

Visualiza and I had an epic discussion about IM3, and I'm still not convinced, despite very well reasoned and logical arguments against my criticisms. Still, sooner or later I'm going to see it again, and I'll keep all that in mind, who knows I might change my opinion (no argument that Sir Ben was flat out hilarious as Trevor, that was great !). BTW Visualiza, an unforgivable gripe about IM3, no ACDC, come on man, in IM it really helped with the feel of the film, and when IM shows up and blasts Loki in Avengers, with ACDC blasting out in the background, that's simply one of the coolest super-hero entrances ever (on a par with Batman's gun-bending entrance, but certainly more flashy). Sorry, off on a tangent there.

However, in respect of MOS, I think that Lorus' particular criticism is a bit like complaining that a sushi bar doesn't sell hot dogs. You're looking for something that's just not going to be there, and never has been, and the fact you're looking there means you're in the wrong restaurant in the first place. No disrespect, if you didn't like it, that's cool, I just disagree with your criticism on this particular aspect of the film.

:super:
 
That's irrelevant, but I'm fairly certain that Lorus was speaking in the context of people who didn't like the movie in the first place. Needless to say, people who do like it wouldn't find it unconvincing.

Its not irrelevant. To say people found alot of flaws in a film is like saying people like to eat. All films have flaws. But for some reason people like man of steel more overall than all the other cbm of this year at least on this pole. And actually many others as well. I could break down every comic book movie this year and find multiple flaws all over the place. Hell I could do that to every cbm ever made. But in the big picture its all about what people enjoyed more. And in this case it seems at least on this board people like mos the best. And really its not even close.
 
If most people had all these problems that you talk about regarding MOS why is MOS far ahead on this poll?

Simple: Marvel fans split their votes between 2 films, the X-Men subgroup split their vote among 3 films, and all DC fans vote for MoS.

I enjoyed Man of Steel a lot, but I do think it was by far the weakest of the big 4 superhero films.
 
Simple: Marvel fans split their votes between 2 films, the X-Men subgroup split their vote among 3 films, and all DC fans vote for MoS.

I enjoyed Man of Steel a lot, but I do think it was by far the weakest of the big 4 superhero films.

I dont think its that simple. If thats the case Green Lantern would have been voted best superhero movie in 2011.
 
I dont think its that simple. If thats the case Green Lantern would have been voted best superhero movie in 2011.

GL is an exception because that was by and large awful. But in these polls, people do tend to favor their selected hero's movie. Always happens. At least if their hero's movie was good on any level.
 
GL is an exception because that was by and large awful. But in these polls, people do tend to favor their selected hero's movie. Always happens. At least if their hero's movie was good on any level.

BY that logic are those that voted for wolverine bias against marvel studio movies? And if wolverine was not made are you saying all those who voted for wolverine would have voted for another marvel movie instead? I dont know about that.
 
BY that logic are those that voted for wolverine bias against marvel studio movies? And if wolverine was not made are you saying all those who voted for wolverine would have voted for another marvel movie instead? I dont know about that.

I'm saying everyone is biased. In Marvel Studios polls, Cap fans will vote TFA as best solo. Iron Man ones Iron Man. Thor ones Thor.

X-Men fans vote X-Men. DC fans vote DC. This comes with being a FAN of something: there is a degree of blind loyalty. Likewise, disappointed fans will harp on a movie that may not be as bad as advertised. It's how fans work in any type of fandom. Everyone wants their "team" to be the best. This is why I don't really pay attention to polls. I have my own voice and opinions. I value them over polls that deal with degrees of bias.
 
Also that logic says those that voted for IM3 or Thor are biased against Wolverine and MOS.

The worst Marvel studios thread has no votes for Iron Man, that would seem to indicate that there are only iron man fans voting.
 
Considering The Wolverine and Man of Steel were neck and neck in the earlier poll before Thor 2 came out, and in this poll if you add Wolverine's and Thor's votes together they are within 7 votes of Man of Steel as of this post, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what happened.
 
Also that logic says those that voted for IM3 or Thor are biased against Wolverine and MOS.

The worst Marvel studios thread has no votes for Iron Man, that would seem to indicate that there are only iron man fans voting.

Fans of Marvel Studios vote in that poll. Look at how many votes IM3 has, yet it won several people's choice awards. What does that say? If MoS was everyone's favorite, why did IM3 win the people's choice award? All polls are popularity contests that honestly are somewhat skewed. I think it is fairly obvious.
 
I'm saying everyone is biased. In Marvel Studios polls, Cap fans will vote TFA as best solo. Iron Man ones Iron Man. Thor ones Thor.

X-Men fans vote X-Men. DC fans vote DC. This comes with being a FAN of something: there is a degree of blind loyalty. Likewise, disappointed fans will harp on a movie that may not be as bad as advertised. It's how fans work in any type of fandom. Everyone wants their "team" to be the best. This is why I don't really pay attention to polls. I have my own voice and opinions. I value them over polls that deal with degrees of bias.


But you are projecting wolverine fans if no wolverine movie was made as voting for IM3 or Thor. I dont know how you can project that.
 
But you are projecting wolverine fans if no wolverine movie was made as voting for IM3 or Thor. I dont know how you can project that.

Not all of them would, but I guarantee many of them would. Because X-Men fans are more likely to have a Marvel bias, since X-Men are Marvel. Not complicated. Sure, some of those votes would go MoS. But, I guarantee most would swing Marvel.
 
Not all of them would, but I guarantee many of them would. Because X-Men fans are more likely to have a Marvel bias, since X-Men are Marvel. Not complicated. Sure, some of those votes would go MoS. But, I guarantee most would swing Marvel.

So you are saying that if only Thor 2 and MOS were made that Thor 2 would win this poll? I really doubt that. Bias and all I just have to disagree.
 
So you are saying that if only Thor 2 and MOS were made that Thor 2 would win this poll? I really doubt that. Bias and all I just have to disagree.

NOT what I am saying. What I am saying is, Marvel fans would mostly vote Thor 2. DC fans would mostly vote MoS. This is how polling works, even at the government level. This is why polls mostly suck. In threads like this, I tend to like the discussion and see what people have to say, and I ignore the poll. Polls have high degrees of bias.

Honestly, it also doesn't matter to me which movie wins these polls. I have my own opinion and I can defend it. I don't need validation for my team.
 
NOT what I am saying. What I am saying is, Marvel fans would mostly vote Thor 2. DC fans would mostly vote MoS. This is how polling works, even at the government level. This is why polls mostly suck. In threads like this, I tend to like the discussion and see what people have to say, and I ignore the poll. Polls have high degrees of bias.

Honestly, it also doesn't matter to me which movie wins these polls. I have my own opinion and I can defend it. I don't need validation for my team.

Well I dont want to be a smart ass but it is kind of what you are saying. You are saying that marvel fans will just vote marvel and vice versa. So you are saying if only THor 2 and MOS were made Thor 2 would win because no one who voted for IM3 or wolverine would vote for MOS. So either they would not vote or just vote the marvel movie. I have more faith in comic book fans than that. THere is a bias built in but like I said if it was that bias Green Lantern would have won in 2011.

Also just to expand on your politics part. It is akin to saying well Bill Clinton really didnt win the election in 1992 because more people didnt vote for him than did. If you combine Bush and Perots vote they surpass what Bill got. But only one guy walked into the white house that year.
 
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Well I dont want to be a smart ass but it is kind of what you are saying. You are saying that marvel fans will just vote marvel and vice versa. So you are saying if only THor 2 and MOS were made Thor 2 would win because no one who voted for IM3 or wolverine would vote for MOS. So either they would not vote or just vote the marvel movie. I have more faith in comic book fans than that. THere is a bias built in but like I said if it was that bias Green Lantern would have won in 2011.

As noted before, Green Lantern has the opposite effect. Green Lantern fans were disappointed in mass, much like Spidey fans with SM3 and X-Men fans with X3 & Origins. So, instead of those movies having blind loyalty movies normally get, they get bashed ENDLESSLY by the fan base. IM3 gets this to some degree due to the Mandarin twist, but the film itself was good enough to not get the backlash SM3, X3, etc got.

Since by and large, the fan bases enjoyed the movies this year to some varying degree, the scramble for team support will be in full effect on each side. There is no "Green Lantern" in this poll. Once again, if MoS was clearly the best CBM of last year, why did the general audience give this honor to Iron Man 3, despite many fans whining about the Mandarin "sucking"? It's because these polls are popularity contests that ultimately don't decide anything. Hence why I favor actual discussion and back and forth.
 
As noted before, Green Lantern has the opposite effect. Green Lantern fans were disappointed in mass, much like Spidey fans with SM3 and X-Men fans with X3 & Origins. So, instead of those movies having blind loyalty movies normally get, they get bashed ENDLESSLY by the fan base. IM3 gets this to some degree due to the Mandarin twist, but the film itself was good enough to not get the backlash SM3, X3, etc got.

Since by and large, the fan bases enjoyed the movies this year to some varying degree, the scramble for team support will be in full effect on each side. There is no "Green Lantern" in this poll. Once again, if MoS was clearly the best CBM of last year, why did the general audience give this honor to Iron Man 3, despite many fans whining about the Mandarin "sucking"? It's because these polls are popularity contests that ultimately don't decide anything. Hence why I favor actual discussion and back and forth.

So with your theory in full effect who wins this poll next year? Will bias x-men fans vote more or will bias spidey fans. Maybe bias marvel studio film fans will vote more but theirs will be split between GOTG and Cap. And I think you kind of stereotype people who dislike IM3 only because of the twist. There were alot of reason not to like that movie. The twist was just one aspect of it. I read plenty of views on that movie and people tear it apart left and right and then talk about the twist. People who liked IM3 always say ohhhh you just didnt like it because of the twist to fans who disliked it. I dont think thats the case.
 
So with your theory in full effect who wins this poll next year? Will bias x-men fans vote more or will bias spidey fans. Maybe bias marvel studio film fans will vote more but theirs will be split between GOTG and Cap. And I think you kind of stereotype people who dislike IM3 only because of the twist. There were alot of reason not to like that movie. The twist was just one aspect of it. I read plenty of views on that movie and people tear it apart left and right and then talk about the twist. People who liked IM3 always say ohhhh you just didnt like it because of the twist to fans who disliked it. I dont think thats the case.

And yet, Iron Man 3 won the PEOPLE'S Choice Award. Chosen by the general audience. Once again...why? If it was as hated as you make it out to be, why did the PEOPLE vote for it? You are avoiding my question.

As for next year's poll, more than likely DoFP wins. It has the most hype. If it lives up to the hype, it will win. The movie with the most interest in general wins.

This past year, IM3 had the most interest, but it won't win HERE because of the twist. Comic fans hated the twist. The general public didn't care and loved it. It is rather simple.
 
Unless ASM2 is complete donkey crap, it will win this poll next year just on the basis it is Spider-Man and there is no Avengers or Batman movie to go up against.

That's how I think it will go anyways.
 
And yet, Iron Man 3 won the PEOPLE'S Choice Award. Chosen by the general audience. Once again...why? If it was as hated as you make it out to be, why did the PEOPLE vote for it? You are avoiding my question.

As for next year's poll, more than likely DoFP wins. It has the most hype. If it lives up to the hype, it will win. The movie with the most interest in general wins.

This past year, IM3 had the most interest, but it won't win HERE because of the twist. Comic fans hated the twist. The general public didn't care and loved it. It is rather simple.

So you are saying DOFP will win and the other guy is saying spidey will win. I will laugh my butt off if cap wins. The whole nature of this poll is comic book fans opinions. The idea that next year there is no DC movie to test your idea is interesting. So all the bias spidey fans will be voting for spidey. All the bias x-men fans will be voting for x-men ect. What you dont take into account is many spidey fans and x-men fans want those movies to be a certain way and if its not they freak and hate the movie. MOS is a perfect example. Of course there are bias superman fans who voted for MOS. But I would argue there are crazy superman fans who didnt vote MOS because of him killing ZOD among other things. They want superman one way and if they dont get it well MOS doesnt get their vote. It all equals out.
 
So you are saying DOFP will win and the other guy is saying spidey will win. I will laugh my butt off if cap wins. The whole nature of this poll is comic book fans opinions. The idea that next year there is no DC movie to test your idea is interesting. So all the bias spidey fans will be voting for spidey. All the bias x-men fans will be voting for x-men ect. What you dont take into account is many spidey fans and x-men fans want those movies to be a certain way and if its not they freak and hate the movie. MOS is a perfect example. Of course there are bias superman fans who voted for MOS. But I would argue there are crazy superman fans who didnt vote MOS because of him killing ZOD among other things. They want superman one way and if they dont get it well MOS doesnt get their vote. It all equals out.

Nice reply to my IM3 point :up:

I do take that into account, but fact is less fans will say it didn't happen that way it sucked than they will say it didn't happen that way but I still like it. So no, it doesn't equal out. Most fans want to love the next movie starring their favorite character. Less want to hate the movie. More people will be able to get over their preconceived notions of what they wanted than they are to bash the movie. Unless, it is Green Lantern or FF bad. That is different.
 

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