Best Comic Book movie of the summer?

[Visualiza]

Thats you though. I could say same thing about The Wolverine.

Once again, I don't think we understand one another, as whatever it is you're trying to say isn't relevant to what was quoted. You said once that you haven't been reading my posts in their entirety, and I get the feeling that this is what's happening here as well. If you're not going to extend the courtesy of taking me seriously in a discussion, then I can't give you the benefit of the doubt either. Don't reply to my posts if you're not going to make any effort to understand them. Again, if I'm unclear, please say so, but if you don't care enough to read, don't bother responding in the first place.

'That's you' doesn't apply, as it has nothing to do with me; we were talking about audience reception and whether or not the box office was hype. The Wolverine? Not as divisive, not as big, not as controversial, not in any way similar. Once again, doesn't apply.

With Iron Man 3/Man of Steel, I have met and heard from people (friends/relatives) that they didn't like the movie. And those people aren't part of the fan community.

Ok. And? How does that in any way relate to what I said? Kahran was suggesting that the Iron Man BO take was mostly hype, therefore the audience was largely dissatisfied with it. I disagreed. What point are you trying to make?

 

[psylockolussus]

Forgive me for quoting your entire post. Obviously I should highlight which sentence from you that I was trying to answer.

That comment of mine was a response to this:

To this day I haven't met a human being that didn't enjoy IM3.

 

[Visualiza]

Of course The Wolverine wasn't gonna fully showcase Japan's culture and tourist sites but Aveitwithjamon was right though.

We saw Wolverine in a new environment, I don't think there has been a live-action American CB movie set in Japan. Also, the film showcased some of Japan's culture like samurai swords, ninjas, technology and even using a chopstick. They even used Japan's own language. It just feels different from the other CB movies out there.

Like I said, I think the claim is blown out of proportion, and your post only furthers this. Swords, ninjas, chopsticks, and the language? Let's be honest here, those are very stereotypical tropes and cliches, and there is far more depth and wonder to the Japanese culture than that. Those sort of things shouldn't even impress the layperson, as it's nothing any of us haven't seen or heard of before.

Being set in a particular location is one thing, but depending upon how it's depicted makes the difference between an intriguing locale and just another setting. In this movie, it was just another setting, as there was nothing noteworthy or distinguishing about what was featured. This is like giving Bourne kudos for showcasing France and Switzerland, and while I love those films, cultural emphasis is not one of its strong suits.

Love the film all you want, I won't nor will I ever try to dispute or deny someone of that, but don't make it out to be something it isn't, that's all I'm saying.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

The Wolverine may not have delved deep into the foreign settings culture, but it did more than probably any other CBM on that front.

 

[psylockolussus]

Like I said, I think the claim is blown out of proportion, and your post only furthers this. Swords, ninjas, chopsticks, and the language? Let's be honest here, those are very stereotypical tropes and cliches, and there is far more depth and wonder to the Japanese culture than that. Those sort of things shouldn't even impress the layperson, as it's nothing any of us haven't seen or heard of before.

Being set in a particular location is one thing, but depending upon how it's depicted makes the difference between an intriguing locale and just another setting. In this movie, it was just another setting, as there was nothing noteworthy or distinguishing about what was featured. This is like giving Bourne kudos for showcasing France and Switzerland, and while I love those films, cultural emphasis is not one of its strong suits.

Love the film all you want, I won't nor will I ever try to dispute or deny someone of that, but don't make it out to be something it isn't, that's all I'm saying.

Well it is the best CB movie of the summer and the majority of the voters think it is.

And I don't get your issue with the film being praised by using Japan's culture. I haven't seen a lot of reviews praising The Wolverine about that. Japan being the setting for the film was a plus and it made the film refreshing and more interesting compare to other CB movies out there.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Ok. And? How does that in any way relate to what I said? Kahran was suggesting that the Iron Man BO take was mostly hype, therefore the audience was largely dissatisfied with it. I disagreed.

No I wasn't, which I clearly said in two other posts. I said that box office gross is no indication of quality. There are good movies with great box office takes (ex. Iron Man 3, The Avengers) and there are also bad movies with great box offices takes (ex. Transformers, The Phantom Menace).

Iron Man 3 WAS a well-liked film, but it wasn't the gross alone that tells us this.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

I don't like IM3, however when i first saw it i came out pumped and rated it an 8/10. As the days passed and the movie seasoned in my mind i found to like it less and downgrade my rating to 6/10

I'd love to see ratings and reviews for all these movies.... A week after people saw them.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I think you're blowing this out of proportion. There wasn't much adapting to a new culture at all. What did he really learn? None of the language, that's for sure. If anything, that's out of character for Wolverine. Customs and culture? Outside of chopsticks, not much. There wasn't much he did or learned that was distinctly relevant to Japanese culture, and getting chased by the Yakuza and ninjas certainly doesn't apply.

I get that some of you like this film, but lets not make it out to be something that it isn't.

He learned a little bit, basically what was necessary for the movie, but he regained his honour and will to live and fight through Japanese culture and Japanese people in the movie, he came out a different character at the end than he was at the start, through going to Japan.

Of course The Wolverine wasn't gonna fully showcase Japan's culture and tourist sites but Aveitwithjamon was right though.

We saw Wolverine in a new environment, I don't think there has been a live-action American CB movie set in Japan. Also, the film showcased some of Japan's culture like samurai swords, ninjas, technology and even using a chopstick. They even used Japan's own language. It just feels different from the other CB movies out there.

Exactly, and seeing Wolverine adapt and learn to live with all that gave the movie an interesting feel, and as I said above, through going to Japan he re-gained his will to live and fight.

I don't like IM3, however when i first saw it i came out pumped and rated it an 8/10. As the days passed and the movie seasoned in my mind i found to like it less and downgrade my rating to 6/10

I'd love to see ratings and reviews for all these movies.... A week after people saw them.

I am the same, when I first saw IM3, I gave it a 9/10, then the movie seasoned in my mind and I have watched it 2 more times and that has gone down to an 8/10, I think the more I watch it the more that rating will go down.

 

[Visualiza]

No I wasn't, which I clearly said in two other posts. I said that box office gross is no indication of quality. There are good movies with great box office takes (ex. Iron Man 3, The Avengers) and there are also bad movies with great box offices takes (ex. Transformers, The Phantom Menace).

Iron Man 3 WAS a well-liked film, but it wasn't the gross alone that tells us this.

My mistake; sorry for the misunderstanding.

Well it is the best CB movie of the summer and the majority of the voters think it is.

And I don't get your issue with the film being praised by using Japan's culture. I haven't seen a lot of reviews praising The Wolverine about that. Japan being the setting for the film was a plus and it made the film refreshing and more interesting compare to other CB movies out there.

I don't get how you don't get it, as I've explained myself multiple times now. Now this comments is a bit more sensible. If you think Japan being the setting was refreshing and new...got it. But based on what happened in the film, I don't see how anyone can say with a clear conscience that he learned so much about Japan, and that the film featured a diverse cultural exploration. It was all very cursory and cliche; nothing any of us haven't seen before.

He learned a little bit, basically what was necessary for the movie, but he regained his honour and will to live and fight through Japanese culture and Japanese people in the movie, he came out a different character at the end than he was at the start, through going to Japan.

You're grasping at straws. He didn't experience enough of the culture to insinuate anything of the sort; he was always either on the run, hiding, or fighting people. To say this would be to say that Jason Bourne 'found himself' and became free of his past demons simply by going to France and Switzerland. I've never heard that. Oh and let's not forget that his German girlfriend made an cultural impact on him because of where she's from as well.

Him being aided by a woman who happens to be Japanese does not in any way mean that he's been impacted by the culture. There is a distinct difference, and that's my point. This story was so generic and broad that it could have been adapted to any modern, developed region of the world. Train scene? check. Chase through a big city? check. Hiding in a rural area? check. Hotel scene? check. There was nothing distinctly Japanese that had a significant impact on the narrative, the character, or the film itself. There's just no logic to this whole idea...and I really find it quite bizarre that some of you are insisting that this film is culturally significant when it's rife with cliches and tropes. Again, I get that you love this movie, but you can't call it Gran Torino when it isn't. There's no shame in that.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

His time there shaped his character. That is not directly tied to his surroundings, except that him putting past mistakes and hiding from his true nature and now embracing life is tied to his surroundings as evidenced in the numerous Soldier/Ronin dialogue between Yashida, Logan and Mariko

 

[kedrell]

Other than getting over his funk due to killing Jean at the end of X3, how did his character change in any way?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

You're grasping at straws. He didn't experience enough of the culture to insinuate anything of the sort; he was always either on the run, hiding, or fighting people. To say this would be to say that Jason Bourne 'found himself' and became free of his past demons simply by going to France and Switzerland. I've never heard that. Oh and let's not forget that his German girlfriend made an cultural impact on him because of where she's from as well.

Him being aided by a woman who happens to be Japanese does not in any way mean that he's been impacted by the culture. There is a distinct difference, and that's my point. This story was so generic and broad that it could have been adapted to any modern, developed region of the world. Train scene? check. Chase through a big city? check. Hiding in a rural area? check. Hotel scene? check. There was nothing distinctly Japanese that had a significant impact on the narrative, the character, or the film itself. There's just no logic to this whole idea...and I really find it quite bizarre that some of you are insisting that this film is culturally significant when it's rife with cliches and tropes. Again, I get that you love this movie, but you can't call it Gran Torino when it isn't. There's no shame in that.

See below.

His time there shaped his character. That is not directly tied to his surroundings, except that him putting past mistakes and hiding from his true nature and now embracing life is tied to his surroundings as evidenced in the numerous Soldier/Ronin dialogue between Yashida, Logan and Mariko

Exactly, the whole movie is about Logan re-discovering his will to live and fight on, even when the worst has happened (Jean dying). Had he not gone to Japan and met the people he did and go through the experiences he did this wouldnt have happened. He would still be in the woods doing nothing.

Other than getting over his funk due to killing Jean at the end of X3, how did his character change in any way?

At the start of the movie he wants to die, he has left the X-Men, is isolated from the world and just wants to die so his past stops haunting him. By the end of the movie he wants the opposite, he wants to live and fight again and learns some humility and honour along the way.

He also learns that being 'The Wolverine' is a gift not a curse, just because you have a long life doesnt mean you should waste it. Its probably the most Logan has changed in a movie since X-Men 2.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

And him helping Mariko made him realise that he can do good with his powers, have a purpose, be a soldier. Rather than wander aimlessly

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Well it is the best CB movie of the summer and the majority of the voters think it is.

No they don't. Less than 50% voted for it.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Still more than the others on the list.

 

[marvelrobbins]

And more people here like The wolverine and man of steel over Iron Man 3.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

And him helping Mariko made him realise that he can do good with his powers, have a purpose, be a soldier. Rather than wander aimlessly

Yep, I forgot that, that happened as well, him waking up with his claws out and Mariko not being scared was a big factor in that. He realised at that point he wasnt a monster, and could be a hero again.

 

[psylockolussus]

No they don't. Less than 50% voted for it.

Majority doesn't mean 50%

Especially when this poll has 4 options!

The Wolverine got the most majority votes.

And TW started off with a higher burden of difficulty simply in it's setting. It becomes even more of a chore to keep with the story when it's set in a foreign land with a culture I have zero familiarity with and a bunch of characters with strange names that'll require extra effort to keep straight as to who's who.

Then good luck watching GOTG. You probably haven't been into a different planet and haven't seen their culture and the characters are not well known, unless you already read the comics.

Do you know you are criticizing the movie simply because you don't know the characters (except for the characters we already saw before) and you haven't been into Japan before you saw the movie. That criticism of yours is really silly and it really deserves a face palm.

 

[kedrell]

Majority doesn't mean 50%

Especially when this poll has 4 options!

The Wolverine got the most majority votes.

Umm, actually it does. Well, anything over 50%. What you're talking about is a plurality.

Then good luck watching GOTG. You probably haven't been into a different planet and haven't seen their culture and the characters are not well known, unless you already read the comics.

If they do as mediocre a job of acclimating the audience to whatever new world they are presenting us with as TW did then I'm sure that'll be true. But GOTG being a MS film, I suspect it'll be much better about that kind of stuff.

Do you know you are criticizing the movie simply because you don't know the characters (except for the characters we already saw before) and you haven't been into Japan before you saw the movie. That criticism of yours is really silly and it really deserves a face palm.

My criticism is that doing that kind of unfamiliar setting requires the filmmakers to guide us through the introduction and familiarization to all these new things. TW seemed to basically ASSUME that all that stuff was familiar from the get go. Unless you are Japanese or a Japanophile...it isn't and I suspect most people in the USA are that way.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Really surprising to see Iron Man 3 so low. I thought it was amazing. The Mandarin stuff bothered me before i saw the movie, and when I saw how it was done, i was cool with it.

Man of Steel is a solid movie and I was completely satisfied as a huge Superman fan, but I feel like there was something missing that kept it from being a great film, and not just a pretty good one. I loved it mostly because I love the characters, and it was just a really fun film .

Wolverine is one of my favorite Marvel characters, I just found the film to be disappointingly boring though, the only character I cared about was Wolverine. Hugh Jackman was AWESOME in The Wolverine, but I feel like he was one of the only AWESOME things about the movie.

I probably enjoyed Man of Steel more than Iron Man 3 (not an IM fan outside of the comics,but I'm a massive Superman fan), but i believe IM3 to be the better, more well crafted film.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

My criticism is that doing that kind of unfamiliar setting requires the filmmakers to guide us through the introduction and familiarization to all these new things. TW seemed to basically ASSUME that all that stuff was familiar from the get go. Unless you are Japanese or a Japanophile...it isn't and I suspect most people in the USA are that way.

You telling us you've never seen a movie or tv show or read a book or comic or seen a news story about Japan?

Even so, they weren't wearing shoes on their heads and hats on their feet, their culture isn't that different from our own.

Then good luck watching GOTG. You probably haven't been into a different planet and haven't seen their culture and the characters are not well known, unless you already read the comics.

Or Asgard in THOR, they jumped straight into that. No introduction and familiarization of the people or culture just straight into the Royal family and companions. And the setting is central to the main characters in that movie, whereas it wasn't to Logan.

 

[Heretic]

The Amazing Adventures of the Living Corpse came out on DVD this summer...and was so bad that I couldn't even get a third of the way through it.

Regarding the whole of 2013...I still haven't seen R.I.P.D., 2 Guns, The Wolverine, Red 2, Smurfs 2, Bullet to the Head or Kick-Ass 2. I hated Man of Steel and while I did not like Iron Man 3, it was at least a fun watch...so I'm sticking with that until I see the other comic book films.

 

[psylockolussus]

If they do as mediocre a job of acclimating the audience to whatever new world they are presenting us with as TW did then I'm sure that'll be true. But GOTG being a MS film, I suspect it'll be much better about that kind of stuff.

I will quote what CyclopsWasRight posted:

Or Asgard in THOR, they jumped straight into that. No introduction and familiarization of the people or culture just straight into the Royal family and companions. And the setting is central to the main characters in that movie, whereas it wasn't to Logan.

Yeah Marvel Studios is not really much better when it comes to introduction of unfamiliar places.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Woah, MOS has suddenly taken the lead again, wasnt expecting that, but yeah, people may want to stop voting soon as when Thor 2 comes out a new poll will be put up.

 

[batfreakforever]

I personally don't give a rats about gross. That should only matter to the people/studio's that make the film(s). If the movie flops and I still like it just means that I might not get to see further films in that series but it wil still end up on my shelf at home, And if it makes a decent amount of money means that there is a good chance that I will see further films in that series and it will end up on my shelf at home. Reviews don't mean anything to me either. If I like it, that's all that matters. Still, the Transformers films got ****ted on in the reviews and made a boat load of money so more movies will continue to be made. The movie business is a money making business. Reviews are second fiddle. Money is first, well quilty of the film should come first but that is up to the individual to decide if that film meets their standards.