Big Brother 18 - Part 1

[Matt]

There was no strategic value in telling Natalie in his goodbye message that he lost his respect for her. It's also likely that Natalie got to see his speech where he was mocking her and saying she took James for a ride on the jury DVDs. He talked about Natalie behind her back a lot, and then when she asks about it in her jury question, he just says "lol it was all in good fun".

Yeah, I agree. The Natalie message was poorly conceptualized (though I cannot help if there was some editing at play as all of his other good bye messages were almost out-of-character gracious). I think the taking James for a ride line would probably be perceived with humor since that was the tone of the speech, but you may be right. Natalie was very sensitive about that stuff (probably because it is true). And I do agree that he should've answered that question a bit more frankly. I'm not sure he could've won Natalie over at that point, but perhaps if he just owned it as strategic...maybe.

 

[Matt]

At any rate, I am officially out on OTT. I was considering subscribing to watch, but now that details have been revealed, I'll pass.

America selecting the winner (and having a voice in the eviction) guarantees a lackluster season filled with Jameses, who are so worried about mugging for the camera that they don't play the game. Plus, the lack of a jury eliminates consequence for evictions.

Not to mention, we've been down this road before. It was Big Brother 1. It sucked.

 

[Sawyer]

My ideal winner tonight was ANYBODY BUT JAMES and I got that, so you won't hear any complaints from me. I feel like Paul performed better in the closing arguments, whereas Nicole was mostly "Ummm I'm so glad to be here blah blah blah I forgot what I was going to say!" But let's be real, Nicole was a target from day 1 and went 95% of the game without being put on the block. She was a returning player and yet here she was, sitting in the final two. You could say that's due to the stupidity of those she was playing with, but hey.

The AFP... eh. I was irked to read it was Victor, but then I watched the show and found out one of the finalists was James and I'm relieved that s*** didn't happen twice in a row.

As for OTT.... asking us to choose between Cartoonish BB Gay Number 1 and Cartoonish BB Gay Number 2? Pass. I wasn't all that interested in an All Access season of the show anyway. But if those are the go-to returnees? Gurl please.

 

[Sawyer]

And the thing about Paul taking Nicole over James... I get it. Look at the game James played. I mean, he really didn't, but he was friendly and inoffensive. Paul was a self-proclaimed a**hole. There's no telling the level of bitterness the jury might harbor. In his shoes, I'd certainly be hesitant to sit next to someone with that many friends on the jury. Sitting next to the snake, it's a bit more evenly matched, and if he loses, at least he does so opposite someone that actually played.

 

[Sawyer]

Ugh x 10000000000000000

 

[Matt]

Ugh x 10000000000000000

You want to talk "ugh?" Natalie in her post-show interview with Rob Cesternino: "I voted for Nicole because I wanted a woman to win."

Good to know that his season came down not to good game play or strategy but rather what sexual organs each finalist was born with.

 

[WereCoyote]

Who did Bridgette vote for, wasn't hers Nicole too? I'm pretty sure both Natalie and Bridgette said in entry interviews as well as many times in the house they were voting for a woman no matter what. Of course Paulie voted for Nicole because she played to his ego all the time, and Corey is his lover. As bad as James is, at least he voted correctly.

 

[Matt]

Bridgette voted for Paul.

Votes for Nicole were Paulie, Z, Corey, Natalie and Da'vonne.

Votes for Paul were Bridgette, Meech, Victor and James.

 

[Primal Slayer]

You want to talk "ugh?" Natalie in her post-show interview with Rob Cesternino: "I voted for Nicole because I wanted a woman to win."

Good to know that his season came down not to good game play or strategy but rather what sexual organs each finalist was born with.

Sexual organs was always the main thing in this game. The guys always targeted the girls because they had boobs and a vagina. So i think it's great that a girl finally won againsta guy, do i wish it was someone other then Nicole? Yeah but in the end she played a decent game, she won comps, and vetos so i cant be 100% mad.

 

[Havok83]

Im glad Victor got AMF. It was either he or Day for me as they were my two faves in that house.

Hated Paul early on but he won me over. He must be kicking himself and he should be. Not sure if he necesarily would have won over James but he had a better shot for sure. Hate that Nicole won but I cant say she was undeserving bc she did play a relatively decent game and outplayed everyone

 

[Matt]

Sexual organs was always the main thing in this game. The guys always targeted the girls because they had boobs and a vagina. So i think it's great that a girl finally won againsta guy, do i wish it was someone other then Nicole? Yeah but in the end she played a decent game, she won comps, and vetos so i cant be 100% mad.

Personally, I like to see the better player win regardless of gender, race, whatever. Just as I was pissed off that Vanessa did not win last year, after playing the best game, I am pissed off that Paul did not win this year. His path was rougher, he handled adversity better than Nicole, and his game was all around stronger. Nicole attempted the Andy Herren strategy, but she didn't do it well. And it's true that it is hard to hold it against her too much. But at the end of the day, she was largely benefited by production interference and James's stupidity. Again, it's hard to hold that against her too much as she exploited his stupidity. But the fact is, she went into the house with a pre-made alliance (I don't believe they had a final two deal but they are friends outside of the house and there is no doubt they allied well before the game started)...so I cannot credit her for it much either. I definitely think she is a bottom tier winner and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth about the season as a whole.

 

[Matt]

Im glad Victor got AMF. It was either he or Day for me as they were my two faves in that house.

Hated Paul early on but he won me over. He must be kicking himself and he should be. Not sure if he necesarily would have won over James but he had a better shot for sure. Hate that Nicole won but I cant say she was undeserving bc she did play a relatively decent game and outplayed everyone

I really do disagree with the assessment that she outplayed anyone. She was there. She was a number. I'm not sure she orchestrated anything. As Meech pointed out in post-game interviews, her "big move" of flipping Natalie wasn't a big move. It was simply pointing out (the relatively well known fact) that Paul and Victor wanted to take out James. As for "manipulating Meech" there was no manipulation. Meech had no choice but to work with James and Nat as she did not have the numbers to take a shot at Nicorey without them. It wasn't the strategic coup de grace Nicole presented. And that sums up Nicole's game in a nutshell. She was there. When opportunity knocked at her door, she didn't turn it away (like Da'Vonne did when Paulie, Z, Corey and Nicole tried to form a final 5 deal with her). But I wouldn't call such passive, responsive gameplay to be "outplaying" anyone.

But you are right that Paul should only be PISSED at himself. I get that he didn't respect James and didn't want to award him 50k...but I'd rather have 500k and give 50 to someone I don't respect than be the one who takes the 50k and loses 450. It was bad jury management on his part. Especially considering all of the jurors (even Natalie) have said in their post show interview that he would've won over James in a landslide.

 

[WereCoyote]

Hate that Nicole won but I cant say she was undeserving bc she did play a relatively decent game and outplayed everyone

On this we shall have to disagree.

 

[Sawyer]

OMG Meech...

 

[Sawyer]

You want to talk "ugh?" Natalie in her post-show interview with Rob Cesternino: "I voted for Nicole because I wanted a woman to win."

Good to know that his season came down not to good game play or strategy but rather what sexual organs each finalist was born with.

I don't give a rat's ass. As far as I'm concerned, there isn't exactly a wide gulf between the quality of Paul's game and the quality of Nicole's, so if that was Nat's deciding factor, I'm fine with it. She gave Paul a chance during the Q&A when she asked about his disrespectful attitude and he said little more than "Hey, that's just who I am, babe *wink wink*", so he can go ahead and blame himself for that vote.

If James had made it to the end and she gave him a vote on account of the showmance, then I'd be pissed. This show has been an avalanche of boy's club bulls*** for so long, if someone is going to vote for a girl based on gender, I say

 

[kvz5]

While I admire him getting that far, I'd soured on Paul so yeah it doesn't matter that much to me that Nicole won. At least it wasn't James. I take comfort with the fact that he's probably thinking that he should've gone on a showmance with Natalie and she 'stole' some of his AFP votes.

I don't give a rat's ass. As far as I'm concerned, there isn't exactly a wide gulf between the quality of Paul's game and the quality of Nicole's, so if that was Nat's deciding factor, I'm fine with it. She gave Paul a chance during the Q&A when she asked about his disrespectful attitude and he said little more than "Hey, that's just who I am, babe *wink wink*", so he can go ahead and blame himself for that vote.

If James had made it to the end and she gave him a vote on account of the showmance, then I'd be pissed. This show has been an avalanche of boy's club bulls*** for so long, if someone is going to vote for a girl based on gender, I say

Yeah I'd agree with this.

 

[Harry_Lime02]

I don't want more female winners if they're female winners like Nicole. Her game does nothing to encourage other women to play the game hard. If anything, it'll do the opposite. The only lesson here is to get into a showmance, spend the first 8 weeks doing nothing but lying in bed with them, then hope to get lucky right at the end and you too can one day be standing on the BB stage saying "Oh my gaawsh, how did I win?"

 

[BestGirl]

^That's the thing that alarms me about Nicole's win. That, and the fact that production was clearly rigging the season for her.

I can only take comfort in the facts that James didn't win AFP and Victor did.

 

[Matt]

Agreed entirely. It's especially problematic when Tiffany was targeted simply because she was related to a woman who actually played a strong game. Meanwhile, Paulie who openly bragged about being related to one of two members of one of the strongest alliances in the game's history and being tutored by a top-5 player was allowed to run the first half of the game.

 

[Matt]

In other words, it is telling that Vanessa is perceived, within the context of the game, as a manipulator, liar, and all around bad person and her sister must be punished for the connection. Meanwhile, Derrick and Cody are perceived as heroes, despite very similar games. If anything, the latter two were more manipulative than Vanessa. So when a woman plays that game, she is crucified. But when a woman plays Nicole's non-existent game of hiding behind the big strong men, she is a hero and deserves to win? Nicole's win furthers the gender gap in Big Brother and places value in weak, subservient, submissive gameplay from females.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Nicole waited a long time to play the game physically but she won plenty of comps and did manage to manipulate bts with getting certain people out.

 

[BestGirl]

Agreed entirely. It's especially problematic when Tiffany was targeted simply because she was related to a woman who actually played a strong game. Meanwhile, Paulie who openly bragged about being related to one of two members of one of the strongest alliances in the game's history and being tutored by a top-5 player was allowed to run the first half of the game.

Yes, although some of that I think was Tiffany isolating herself from the group. Once the other HGs smelled blood in the water they all piled on her and began to contrive reasons to get rid of her. If she hadn't put such a massive target on herself she might have been able to sail through the early part of the game a la Paulie.

 

[BestGirl]

Nicole waited a long time to play the game physically but she won plenty of comps and did manage to manipulate bts with getting certain people out.

How much of that was Nicole, and how much was production is my question.

 

[Harry_Lime02]

In other words, it is telling that Vanessa is perceived, within the context of the game, as a manipulator, liar, and all around bad person and her sister must be punished for the connection. Meanwhile, Derrick and Cody are perceived as heroes, despite very similar games. If anything, the latter two were more manipulative than Vanessa. So when a woman plays that game, she is crucified. But when a woman plays Nicole's non-existent game of hiding behind the big strong men, she is a hero and deserves to win? Nicole's win furthers the gender gap in Big Brother and places value in weak, subservient, submissive gameplay from females.

Yeah, there has been some serious revisionism about Vanessa being this crazy untrustworthy backstabber. Let's look at the facts: her week 1 allies were Liz, Austin and Steve. She got all of them to the final 5, largely because she was the only one that had the guts to attack the other side. The only real betrayal she made was when she made that alliance with Jason the week she backdoored him, but she did that out of loyalty to her original allies. Several times she stuck her neck out for people who wouldn't do the same for her, and only voted out her true allies when there was no-one else left.

 

[Sawyer]

Considering CBS cut out 99% of everything Zakiyah ever did in that house, I can buy this.