The Dark Knight Biggest Disappointment

[Travesty]

The joy buzzer scene was more disturbing than anything in TDK IMO. And no not because it had a cartoony burnt corpse. But because of the way Joker was talking to him, real disturbing like.

The joy buzzer scene was 100% pure-Joker.

-"I'm glad you're dead! HAhahahahHAHhHAhah...I'm glad you're dead, I'm glad you're dead? HAhaHAhHAahHHAhAHHHAAhaaaaa"

 

[Ace of Knaves]

"What's that? Grease em now? You always were a vicious bastard Rotelli..."

And are we forgetting the acid scarred face of Jerry Hall? That was pretty ****ed up.

 

[Bat-Mite]

-And you talk about the bank scene? How the hell was that violent? In fact, when the bank manager got shot in the GUT and there was not one single drop of blood it took me out of the scene. Or when the guy got shot with the shot gun...no blood at all? C'mon you could get away with that "violence" on TV before the watershed.

And I ain't one of these blood and guts fanatics. But it just took me out of the scene. **** Indiana Jones is more violent than TDK.

Hell even Star Wars: A New Hope had blood in it when Ben cut that guys arm off in the bar.

So why was there not one single drop of blood in this film?

Look up "violence" in the dictionary. Blood isn't and never has been a prerequisite. I also bet that Nolan had to keep blood to a minimum in this film for the sake of a PG-13 rating. Remember how leaked images showed the fake Batman with a knife holding the card to his chest? Yet in the actual movie, it's just a pin holding it there. There's a reason for that change. Also, there were drops of blood on Two-Face's pillow in his hospital room, and I seem to recall it being present in a couple of other places as well, but I'd have to watch the movie again to say for sure.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

What I'm saying is, TDK didn't push the bounderies for violence in a PG13 film I don't think.

For intensity and disturbing scenes? Sure. But not for actual violence.

 

[returntovoid]

The joy buzzer scene was more disturbing than anything in TDK IMO. And no not because it had a cartoony burnt corpse. But because of the way Joker was talking to him, real disturbing like.

And you talk about the bank scene? How the hell was that violent? In fact, when the bank manager got shot in the GUT and there was not one single drop of blood it took me out of the scene. Or when the guy got shot with the shot gun...no blood at all? C'mon you could get away with that "violence" on TV before the watershed.

And I ain't one of these blood and guts fanatics. But it just took me out of the scene. **** Indiana Jones is more violent than TDK.

Hell even Star Wars: A New Hope had blood in it when Ben cut that guys arm off in the bar.

So why was there not one single drop of blood in this film?

What I'm saying is, TDK didn't push the bounderies for violence in a PG13 film I don't think.

For intensity and disturbing scenes? Sure. But not for actual violence.

Exactly! I completely agree.

 

[The Joker]

There wasn't a backlash about it because the times have changed. Some people let their children watch shows like True Blood and things like that these days. Hell, I remember some overly religious types taking their 6 year old children to see Passion of the Christ when it came out, even though it was more gory than any horror movie I've ever seen. I also don't remember anyone objecting to Kate Winslet's nude body being shown in a PG-13 movie, and that was over ten years ago.Showing a man screaming in agony as his body burns (immediately after his girlfriend is murdered, no less) and then showing the after effects isn't violent? Showing a bunch of thugs shooting each other to death and running one over with a bus? A man getting a pencil impaled through his eye? Car bombs, drinking acid, three corpses with grins carved into their faces, a man being sat on fire while he sits atop a pile of money? Citizens trying to assassinate Reese due to Joker's threats against their loved ones? Batman breaking Maroni's leg? Two-Face holding a gun to a child's head? None of this is violent?

If anything, it was far more extreme than what happened in Burton's films. His films had Joker shooting people, gassing them, and an extremely cartoony joybuzzer scene. The second one had Catwoman scratching someone, stabbing Batman with her claws, Penguin biting a man's nose, Batman setting a guy on fire, and him strapping a bomb to a man's chest. While these acts were no doubt violent, they still were more often than not portrayed in a cartoony manner, and weren't nearly as extreme as what TDK showed, IMO.

Also, from what I remember, the protests against BR were largely due to sexuality. Penguin made several sexual remarks towards Catwoman. Catwoman made various references to Batman's anatomy and dressed in an S&M costume (complete with a whip!) and licked him while sitting on top of him. TDK didn't have anything remotely sexual, from what I recall.

Well said

 

[Panthro]

So now we're criticizing the film for not having enough blood? I just rewatched the film and there was some blood when the guy got shot in the gut, it just wasn't splattering the camera.

 

[returntovoid]

So now we're criticizing the film for not having enough blood?

Not exactly, it's much more off-topic than that.

We're criticizing people for making this exaggerated point that TDK pushed the boundaries of the PG-13 rating.

No one's complaining that they want an R rating.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea I'm not criticizing the film per say...just saying I think it's foolish when people claim TDK pushed the bounderies of PG13.

 

[lzzy]

It probably pushed it as a 'Superhero' film. People have notions of cartoony action in them, nothing severe. Batman hasn't been this dark since 1992, so it was probably a shock to the system.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea I understand that.

But I mean, was a guy getting his head splattered in Raiders of the Lost Ark cartoony? Or guy getting chopped up by an airplane propellers? That was PG.

I don't think TDK pushes the boundaries. I just think people these days are more sensitive. TOO sensitive.

 

[The Joker]

I still think Returns is the darkest Batman movie to date. But TDK is a close second.

 

[Anita18]

Not exactly, it's much more off-topic than that.

We're criticizing people for making this exaggerated point that TDK pushed the boundaries of the PG-13 rating.

No one's complaining that they want an R rating.

There were actually multiple newspaper critic's reviews that expressed surprised TDK didn't get an R for Two-Face alone.

And I dunno, there's a difference between PG-13 attitudes and R attitudes. TDK's conflict was mature and realistic enough that I could easily see how it could have gotten an R if the MPAA deemed it so, even without lack of violence or cursing. Name any other PG-13 action/adventure movies akin to the realistic darkness and maturity TDK had.

Transformers or POTC? Hell no. Titanic? Mature but not as grimly dark throughout. Same with Forrest Gump. LOTR was a fantasy, not really in the same genre, the attitudes don't exactly resonate in the same fashion.

I think TDK is the only recent movie that has skirted the PG-13/R rating as closely as it did, and lack of blood and lack of putting-gun-to-child's-head (yay for clever editing) somehow convinced the MPAA to keep it PG-13.

 

[Anita18]

Yea I understand that.

But I mean, was a guy getting his head splattered in Raiders of the Lost Ark cartoony? Or guy getting chopped up by an airplane propellers? That was PG.

I don't think TDK pushes the boundaries. I just think people these days are more sensitive. TOO sensitive.

PG-13 didn't even EXIST then. The first movie released with a PG-13 rating was Red Dawn, in 1984. Ratings mean different things from then and now.

I was shocked that they showed Alfred Molina impaled multiple times through the face in the opening, because I wasn't expecting that level of violence on screen. For more recent movies, you have a better gauge of what's allowed.

 

[david icke]

Yea I understand that.

But I mean, was a guy getting his head splattered in Raiders of the Lost Ark cartoony? Or guy getting chopped up by an airplane propellers? That was PG.

I don't think TDK pushes the boundaries. I just think people these days are more sensitive. TOO sensitive.

No, I think it did push the boudaries, with stuff like the Joker talking about taking his time with a knife? Not exactly kid's movie material.

And it isn't all about how much blood is allowed, it's also to do with how the filmaker wants to present the scene. I imagine Nolan was more concerned with getting good takes than setting up the squidgee blood packs to go off during shooting scenes.

Someone has come into the thread and said that the bank manager did have some blood showing. It's just that it's not at the splatter Sam Pekinpah levels. Those Indy Jones scenes needed the blood in them, the DK scenes did not need that kind of thing at all to be effective.

RE: the Joker burnt corpse scene, I watched that again the other night and laughed a lot, it's menat to be funny, JN is great in it.
But i didn't laugh during the scene where Ledger talks about slowly killing people with a knife, that's real life disturbing, that's the scarier scene to me.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

@Anita.

Oh yea ****! That was pretty sickening.

But Indy was PG.

I just think it's more to do with people and censors being more sensitive these days.

If TDK was released in the 90s no one would be saying it pushed the boundaries I don't think.

 

[Anita18]

Oh yea ****! That was pretty sickening.

But Indy was PG.

I just think it's more to do with people and censors being more sensitive these days.

If TDK was released in the 90s no one would be saying it pushed the boundaries I don't think.

Indy was PG because PG-13 didn't exist then! I bet if it were released today, it would be PG-13 with some editing.

It's not that people are more sensitive, I think it's mostly that directors like Spielberg were making fun blockbusters that weren't really for kids (PG), nor were they geared toward adults (R), so they had to make something in between.

From MPAA's site, it says, "In July of 1984 the PG category was split into two groups- PG and PG-13. PG-13 meant a higher level of intensity than was to be found in a film rated PG."

For a film like Transformers or POTC, I can see how PG-13 is a higher level of intensity from PG. The violence is not very realistic and the conflict isn't that mature from a PG movie. But for TDK, I feel that its PG-13 is a lower intensity from an R, mostly for the maturity of its conflict. Do you feel that difference?

 

[returntovoid]

with stuff like the Joker talking about taking his time with a knife?

Implying/referencing violence does not equal to an R rating. Showing vast amount of blood or graphic violence does.

 

[Anita18]

Implying/referencing violence does not equal to an R rating. Showing vast amount of blood or graphic violence does.

It doesn't have to be graphic. Slumdog Millionaire got an R despite lack of blood and cursing, because it depicted torture (not directly on screen) and violence against children (not directly on screen). TDK managed to get away with it because the torture (Joker surely physically tortured Brian Douglass) didn't happen on screen at all, nor is the audience sure what exactly happens. That and Two-Face never points a gun directly at a child's head. The MPAA is a funny lot.

 

[The Joker]

Oh the Brian Douglas scene. That was intense.

"Look at me......LOOK AT ME!!!!!"

 

[[A]]

"I'll look at you when the script demands it!!!"

 

[returntovoid]

"I'll look at you when the script demands it!!!"

 

[mothy]

Oh the Brian Douglas scene. That was intense.

"Look at me......LOOK AT ME!!!!!"

indeed. from playful to dead serious in the blink of an eye. oh, and that close-up joker laugh at the end is the best. ever.

 

[The Joker]

indeed. from playful to dead serious in the blink of an eye. oh, and that close-up joker laugh at the end is the best. ever.

Yep, loved it. The fact that no music was used in the scene made it even more effective.

 

[DarKJediKnight]

Oh the Brian Douglas scene. That was intense.

"Look at me......LOOK AT ME!!!!!"

One of my favorite Joker scenes... and his face wasn't even shown. Makes me want to see TDK again, but later, I'm at work .