Birds of Prey Birds of Prey General Discussion and Speculation

[misslane38]

Where is this Cassandra only has a "few words" rumor coming from?

As far as I know, it's not so much a rumor that she will be a girl of few words but a preference that she be a girl who doesn't speak at all because that's how she is characterized in the source material. The issue, then, is that some are upset that Cass appears to not have this canonical limitation in the film. At present, I'm not sure it's clear yet how much and how well Cass with communicate in the movie.

 

[DlAMONDZ]

I don't mind some of the changes. Expected given WB is letting directors do what they want

 

[Scarlet Spider]

 

[jmc]

It's a combination of already existing movie tropes, which is why I said in some of my posts that it looks derivative concept. Angry girl as side kick ? Hit girl and X-23 in Logan are examples of that, while I admit, X-23 in Logan was not mute but she had few lines of dialogue. Then you have numerous examples of young Asian girls shown as expert in fighting skills and they are often depicted as antagonists. Comic book accurate Cassandra Cain would have been a combination of all that.

Can you provide actual examples? I certainly can't think of any well known mute Asian girls characters off the top of my head coming from Hollywood at least. Unless you're talking specifically about Asian cinema. But honestly this seems to be a troupe that's being made up out of some misguided idea that it's somehow common in Hollywood movies. And I'd argue not only is it not common, it's virtually non-existent.

 

[Kane52630]

Where is this Cassandra only has a "few words" rumor coming from?

It's called comics.

 

[Micromind]

The whole season of Defenders takes place in a fairly short time period and that picture is from when all 4 end up in the same place by accident and things suddenly escalate. Daredevil gets into his suit in the finale.

Looking at the behind the scenes photos and Officially released photos of Birds of Prey I believe that the story shown in this movie also takes place in a short duration of time maybe within a day or two.

 

[Predator jp]

she doesn't have to be mute or struggle with speech but at the very least she has to be a martial arts expert, that's her "superpower" so to speak. if you strip even that away from her i just don't see the point of calling her Cass. it's like calling a black lady who can't not summon animal abilities Vixen.

she maybe a martial arts expert in the actual movie who knows tho.

 

[Yowza]

Bobby Batalon (playing Ned Leeds in Spider-Man movies) would like to play the Hobgoblin according to recent interview . Uh no...

Cassandra Cain is another oddball casting I just am going to pretend is not the character in the comics but someone else and I'll be ok with it.

Going back to earlier conversation regarding humor:

I think my main issue with the trailer is that Harley is just not very funny in it and her lines are not witty at all. The Suicide Squad trailers made her seem like genuinely unique aND funny character- here she just seems annoying

Yeah, I'm still going to have to see the movie to make a judgement. At least 1 joke and perhaps a few general depictions have been altered in post-production as indicated after recent screenings took place.

The score for the movie is currently being made so that may help. I thought Harley kind of grated in the trailer at first but then the score kicked in and things seemed to gel together. The dialogue needs to be sharp though and hopefully it is.

The Cassandra Cain character does kind of drag things down a bit it seems in the trailer. Perhaps she's put in for young females to identify with I suppose and give a lens to view things through but the character seems annoying. I can just see her being used to make a slow attempt at a humorous line at the end of the movie giving some slow pun about something to sort of establish her as being "in" the edgy girl gang as movie ends that just wouldn't gel right.

 

[jmc]

she doesn't have to be mute or struggle with speech but at the very least she has to be a martial arts expert, that's her "superpower" so to speak. if you strip even that away from her i just don't see the point of calling her Cass. it's like calling a black lady who can't not summon animal abilities Vixen.

she maybe a martial arts expert in the actual movie who knows tho.

This my inherent problem with choices being made for these movies nowadays. They are using existing characters as a template in order to create someone else. The people making these movies are not actually interested in bringing characters from the comics to life, they are interested it playing with them like action figures just like Snyder did. There is no respect towards the characters they are handling, whether through design or characterisation.

 

[harlequinade]

I see there is a lot of guys online who already have the problem with this movie and can't even articulate what the problem is lol

Why must they be like this every time women get a female-led flick, jesus christ

 

[Madam-Shogun]

This my inherent problem with choices being made for these movies nowadays. They are using existing characters as a template in order to create someone else..

That's always been my issue with adaptations in general. People always need to shoehorn in their own ideas. Most just want an IP to exploit. Most adaptations aren't even pragmatic let a lone acurate. Just look what happened to World War Z.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

I see there is a lot of guys online who already have the problem with this movie and can't even articulate what the problem is lol

Why must they be like this every time women get a female-led flick, jesus christ

It's not like male lead comic flicks don't get it.

 

[Micromind]

Harley Quinn is mostly same as her comic book / animated series Harley Quinn, she's just having different costumes. (She's even having a pet Hyena)
Renee Montoya is working as detective in GCPD, they have just written her story to fit the movie otherwise her back story is mostly same.
Helena Bertinelli (Huntress) mostly will have the same back story as in comics, and since this is origins of the Huntress, she's not wearing comic book accurate costume.
Black Mask is still a mob boss/ crime lord, and Victor Zsasz is still a killer.

So, only characters that have changes to some degree are Black Canary (who will still have canary cry) and Cassandra Cain (who may have some fighting skills). So, I don't know why people are so worked up over this. Nolan did far more changes to "Robin" in TDKR.

 

[harlequinade]

It's not like male lead comic flicks don't get it.

They don't. I don't see women ****ting all over male lead comic flicks at every opportunity they get.

But whatever, I'll see it, have fun and they can just be pissed off lol we saw how much impact that has with CM and that is ZERO

 

[fan4stic]

Harley Quinn is mostly same as her comic book / animated series Harley Quinn, she's just having different costumes. (She's even having a pet Hyena)
Renee Montoya is working as detective in GCPD, they have just written her story to fit the movie otherwise her back story is mostly same.
Helena Bertinelli (Huntress) mostly will have the same back story as in comics, and since this is origins of the Huntress, she's not wearing comic book accurate costume.
Black Mask is still a mob boss/ crime lord, and Victor Zsasz is still a killer.

So, only characters that have changes to some degree are Black Canary (who will still have canary cry) and Cassandra Cain (who may have some fighting skills). So, I don't know why people are so worked up over this. Nolan did far more changes to "Robin" in TDKR.

Nolan's movie was more or less using an amalgamation I think and I think that's not a movie or situation to think it would do a direct Robin adaptation. I don't think this world has that similar reasoning.

Harley isn't leading the Birds Of Prey in comics.

I don't think Montoya is in her older age in comics.

What is Huntress' origin in this?

Roman wears a black mask.

Having the canary cry isn't what makes BC BC. Same for fighting skills for Cain.

 

[fan4stic]

I see there is a lot of guys online who already have the problem with this movie and can't even articulate what the problem is lol

Why must they be like this every time women get a female-led flick, jesus christ

It's not just guys.

But lets not pretend there aren't still people taking issue with MCU's Spider-Man, me among them, taking issue with MOS/BvS/JL's depiction of Superman, Batman, Flash, and taking issue with the Suicide Squad movie, while also giving adulation to the Wonder Woman movie, a female led movie.

 

[Predator jp]

Nolan's movie was more or less using an amalgamation I think and I think that's not a movie or situation to think it would do a direct Robin adaptation. I don't think this world has that similar reasoning.

Harley isn't leading the Birds Of Prey in comics.

I don't think Montoya is in her older age in comics.

What is Huntress' origin in this?

Roman wears a black mask.

Having the canary cry isn't what makes BC BC. Same for fighting skills for Cain.

personally i don't have any problems with any of them other than Cass. at least i can identify who they are. but Cass? not so much.

 

[Micromind]

Nolan's movie was more or less using an amalgamation I think and I think that's not a movie or situation to think it would do a direct Robin adaptation. I don't think this world has that similar reasoning.

In movies, director is not supposed to follow some imaginary set of rules, they can have different types of interpretations.

Harley isn't leading the Birds Of Prey in comics.

But this movie is not an adaptation of "Birds of Prey" comic, it's an ensemble movie whose title has both BoP and Harley Quinn.

I don't think Montoya is in her older age in comics.

Age of characters tends to vary, for example - Aunt May played by Rosemary Harris was 75 years old when she appeared in Spider-Man (2002) now compare her with another version of Aunt May played by Marisa Tomei, who was 52 at the time of release of Spider-Man homecoming.

And, Rosie Perez is 55 years old, if I'm not mistaken, Cops in US can be in service till 65 years, so she's nowhere that old.

What is Huntress' origin in this?

Her family is assassinated (see trailer for hints)
Huntress (Helena Bertinelli) - Wikipedia

Roman wears a black mask.

I think he will wear the Mask at some point in the movie.

Having the canary cry isn't what makes BC BC. Same for fighting skills for Cain.

But that's the major part of character for Black Canary.

 

[fan4stic]

In movies, director is not supposed to follow some imaginary set of rules, they can have different types of interpretations.

I could argue that by that perception, adapting anything might as well not be done if they're not following the characters they're adapting, with it fitting the world that story's in.

But this movie is not an adaptation of "Birds of Prey" comic, it's an ensemble movie whose title has both BoP and Harley Quinn.

I could argue that by doing that the movie isn't abiding by the source material.

Age of characters tends to vary, for example - Aunt May played by Rosemary Harris was 75 years old when she appeared in Spider-Man (2002) now compare her with another version of Aunt May played by Marisa Tomei, who was 52 at the time of release of Spider-Man homecoming.

And, Rosie Perez is 55 years old, if I'm not mistaken, Cops in US can be in service till 65 years, so she's nowhere that old.

May always stays in older age. We haven't gotten Mary Elizabeth Winstead as Aunt May.

Her family is assassinated (see trailer for hints)
Huntress (Helena Bertinelli) - Wikipedia

We'll see if they do it.

I think he will wear the Mask at some point in the movie.

I think of it as similar to saying that we'll see Joker have a white face at some point in a Batman movie where the Joker's the villain.

But that's the major part of character for Black Canary.

I see it as a bell and whistle. And saying it's a major part, enough to potentially define the character, I think is like saying if you gave the canary cry to Alfred would make him majorly BC.

 

[Boom]

It looks OK. We all knew it was coming, but the blatant focus and prioritization on Harley Quinn is a bit aggravating. We've joked about this being called "Harley and Friends." This trailer didn't help.

 

[Micromind]

There were some on locations pics where Black Mask was seen wearing some type of mask. If people don't want to believe it, what can I do.

 

[Micromind]

The big problem going forward (which nobody is talking about) is complete absence of Batman in DCEU, he's not in BoP or The SS or any other DCEU movie, compared to that, costumes of BoP, Cassandra Cain not being mute, or the title of this movie are minor problems.

Matt Reeves "The Batman" may not be in DCEU.

 

[jmc]

It's not just guys.

But lets not pretend there aren't still people taking issue with MCU's Spider-Man, me among them, taking issue with MOS/BvS/JL's depiction of Superman, Batman, Flash, and taking issue with the Suicide Squad movie, while also giving adulation to the Wonder Woman movie, a female led movie.

This is what bugs me about the modern conversation around these films. Someone will point to a small section of people as some type of proof there's this massive anti-female thing against a movie, whilst at the same time ignore films like Wonder Woman that are universally praised. It's 100% completely dishonest to make act like any dislike towards this trailer is entirely down to it being female led. A small minority of people are not even worth bringing into the discussion.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

As for her look, it kind of reminds me of this panel from the new Shadow of the Batgirl book.

Why is she drawn to look like a 12 years old boy?

 

[UncleSam1776]

I see the "If you criticize anything about a movie with a female lead it must mean you hate women" crowd has shown up. Which means it's time to get the hell away from this thread. Enjoy the movie folks.