Black Panther User Review Thread - Tag Spoilers

[JtheDreamer]

Just got back from seeing this.

Unfortunately I'm going to be the voice of dissent. There's a better movie that could have been made in the hands of a more seasoned director with the material that was trying to be produced here. This film was stuffed with too many characters, under-cooked motivations, CGI-abuse, and misplaced race/political/societal messages. Some of the latter reminded me of the Facebook poster who one-shots political messages, but then doesn't want to endure an actual discussion.

Before I continue, I'll start with the positives. The Dora Milaje owned this film for the most part. They were a pleasure to watch both in combat and their nature in general. I couldn't get enough of the costume designs for most of the Wakandan civilians. They were so vibrant and oozing culture. While many prefer Killemonger, I thought Serkis' Klaue was a treat. He reminded me of Hugo Weaving's Red Skull in how fun the villain could be. That crack about [BLACKOUT]his mixtape on Soundcloud[/BLACKOUT] had me laughing. I also really liked the fight scene in the South Korean gambling hall and the look of the falls during the ritual fights.

IMO this movie suffered from the same problems with the Thor franchise before Ragnarok - T'Challa was outshined by other characters, namely the Dora Milaje. It's not good when I'd prefer to watch Okoye over the lead. Speaking of which, I found Chadwick Boseman extremely flat. I understand the nobility he was trying to present, but it came off stiff and some of that I suspect was due to the accent he was trying to be consistent with.

Killemonger's plight is actually a really great element to this story. I just thought that execution of it was lackluster. Michael B. Jordan is too one-note in his presentation - the angry black militant. There needed to be more transition from the father-less kid to the vengeful threat to the Wakandan throne. Towards the end there, I felt like I was just watching a swaggerific stereotype moreso than a fully developed antagonist. After listening to interviews, the character was more Coogler's sensibilities than anything else.

Other complaints:

- The first half of the film is marred by serious pacing issues which disrupts its rhythm
- The notion of what Vibranium can do is played with too loosely
- There should have only been one ritual fight scene - the one with Killemonger. They could've handled the M'Baku dynamic separately.
- The CGI was abused (especially in the third act). Too many bendy looking sequences with Black Panther, rather than utilizing a stunt double in practical suit.
- The line was crossed between a highly advanced nation into sci-fi. Too much "well wouldn't it be cool if we had this" going on in this movie.

Overall, I felt T'Challa was written/presented better in Civil War. This isn't a bad entry and a good start for such an important character in the pantheon of CBM's. Just too many half-baked, partially-executed ideas. IMO it's being over-hyped because of the starvation for the first afro-centric superhero movie in the golden age of CBM's - very similar to the effect Woman Woman saw at the BO. Sure it's great to some right now, but better movies will be made down the road.

6.5/10

 

[MbJ]

I actually feel more sorry for Antman and The Wasp. There isn’t all that much hype going for it and it has to follow two huge blockbusters. On top of that there are now some accusations against Douglas. It might not bode well.

It'll probably be another sleeper hit. Ant-Man 1 did a solid but not spectacular 500 million, so given Ant-Man will likely have a bump in viewers due to his presence in Civil War, I'm guessing a cool 750 million or so for the sequel.

Plus having a female hero as the co-lead is something I'm sure Marvel will heavily emphasize in the marketing to draw more interest.

As for Black Panther, I was blown away. Aside from some minor nitpicks (bad rubbery CGI in the final fight and pacing issues in Act 1), I loved it. Also holy crap I think Shuri is gonna be another breakout.

 

[Loki882]

I REALLY liked this movie:

-The cast are all fantastic, with Shuri, Killmonger, and Nakia being particular standouts.
-The female characters, with one exception, were all great overall.
-The worldbuilding here is some of the best that the MCU has to offer, and the world of Wakanda itself is fascinating.
-The action is mostly solid.
-Killmonger gives Loki and Vulture a run for their money as the best/most interesting MCU villain to date.
-Klaw is amazingly entertaining.
-Etc.

My complaints are relatively minor:

Spoiler

-I kind of wish that they hadn't have killed off Killmonger and Klaw by the end. Both because I wanted to see more of them in the future and because that's arguably BP's two most well-known villains offed in the first film.
-The transition between Klaw and Killmonger as the main villain felt kind of rushed and a bit clunky, and the former's death felt, unnecessary.
-Some of the CGI wasn't great.
-Ramonda was good, but a bit underused imo.
-It seemed like they were setting up Killmonger's partner/GF to be a more important character, but then they just cast her aside without much fanfare. It was, odd, especially in a movie that does really well by it's female characters otherwise.
-Etc.

But still, I'd easily give it a 9/10, maybe a 9.5.

 

[Mr.T]

I saw it last night and really enjoyed it. The movie definitely has deep themes and obvious social commentary that separates it from any Marvel movie. This alone made it a very unique movie for me.
With that said, some of the CGI lacked a little in scenes and the action was hard to make out in others. I do feel like BP was outshined in his own movie.
Overall, Coogler did a great job with the story & direction. Killmonger & Klau were an awesome one two punch to the story.
8/10

 

[Smilodon]

Saw it last night in a packed house and really enjoyed it! Definitely not a masterpiece, but still one of the best of the MCU!

I had really good vibes about the film when MBJ talked about Michael Fassbender's Magneto in terms of inspiration, and he absolutely nailed it. (I kinda scoff when anyone mentions Heath - that's just an impossible bar to top, so I'm glad he looked at other more comic book-y villains) He, like Tom Hiddleston, definitely made a stronger impact than the main hero. Hemsworth and Boseman are definitely not James McAvoy in that regard, but Boseman still did great in the role.

There isn't a lot more to be said that hasn't already been said besides a few wonky CGI bits, but Coogler has really made a successful leap into blockbusters and given a fantastic world/characters that people will be chomping at the bits for more. 4/5!

 

[JtheDreamer]

Well ...

6.5/10

Being a HUGE Marvel fan, this movie has me torn. The nobility of the character and his supporting characters comes across wonderfully and does justice to the source material in that regard. It’s a well written and acted film no question about it. Yet, judging it on two different fronts it is extremely lacking.

In terms of pure entertainment, it’s on the EXACT same level as Iron Man 2. (And I found IM2 to be the MCU’s weakest effort) Like IM2, Black Panther features very weak action and a “universe building” narrative held together by interesting characters and dialogue. The fight scenes are atrociously shot and almost inept. They are choppy and disjointed and in the larger scenes very cartoonish.

Then, there’s judging it on its political social commentary. That’s where it gets tricky and is where most movie critics fear to speak ill of it. Bottom line is the movie takes a stance that anyone not black is or has been an oppressor. Black Panther agrees but thinks that Wakanda should be better than the enemy and not sink to their level. Killmonger is pure black militant thinking every African descendant everywhere should be armed and violently destroy anyone of a different race. THAT is the tone of the film. In an era of divisiveness, this movie sure seems to want to bring gasoline to the fire. It’s not blatant and tries to hide it in comic book sci-fi visuals and story but it really isn’t all that subtle. The irony is that with all the pandering to today’s “victim blacks” the movie ends up tripping on its own message. Embracing African culture means having everyone dancing around like bush natives but with 23rd century technology. The assumptions it makes is insulting if you think about it. They CAN’T get ahead in modern civilization WITHOUT a “magic metal” that puts them hundreds of years ahead of the rest of the world. The message is that without Vibranium they would have no ability to prosper as a culture??? It seems this movie is less about showing pride in African culture and more about trying to perpetuate the myth that everyone of non-African decent is on some level evil. That certainly has an audience in this era whether you buy in to the white guilt propaganda or are angry at society or your place in society in general.

Does all that make a great film? The answer here is clearly NO but it doesn’t make for a bad film either.

Eloquently stated. It's also the impression I got as the movie wore on and started to erode my ability to enjoy the film a bit.

 

[KevTravels]

For sure Boseman is a better actor than Hemsworth

 

[Coffee]

Well ...

6.5/10

Being a HUGE Marvel fan, this movie has me torn. The nobility of the character and his supporting characters comes across wonderfully and does justice to the source material in that regard. It’s a well written and acted film no question about it. Yet, judging it on two different fronts it is extremely lacking.

In terms of pure entertainment, it’s on the EXACT same level as Iron Man 2. (And I found IM2 to be the MCU’s weakest effort) Like IM2, Black Panther features very weak action and a “universe building” narrative held together by interesting characters and dialogue. The fight scenes are atrociously shot and almost inept. They are choppy and disjointed and in the larger scenes very cartoonish.

Then, there’s judging it on its political social commentary. That’s where it gets tricky and is where most movie critics fear to speak ill of it. Bottom line is the movie takes a stance that anyone not black is or has been an oppressor. Black Panther agrees but thinks that Wakanda should be better than the enemy and not sink to their level. Killmonger is pure black militant thinking every African descendant everywhere should be armed and violently destroy anyone of a different race. THAT is the tone of the film. In an era of divisiveness, this movie sure seems to want to bring gasoline to the fire. It’s not blatant and tries to hide it in comic book sci-fi visuals and story but it really isn’t all that subtle. The irony is that with all the pandering to today’s “victim blacks” the movie ends up tripping on its own message. Embracing African culture means having everyone dancing around like bush natives but with 23rd century technology. The assumptions it makes is insulting if you think about it. They CAN’T get ahead in modern civilization WITHOUT a “magic metal” that puts them hundreds of years ahead of the rest of the world. The message is that without Vibranium they would have no ability to prosper as a culture??? It seems this movie is less about showing pride in African culture and more about trying to perpetuate the myth that everyone of non-African decent is on some level evil. That certainly has an audience in this era whether you buy in to the white guilt propaganda or are angry at society or your place in society in general.

Does all that make a great film? The answer here is clearly NO but it doesn’t make for a bad film either.

That's why this movie was always going to be polarizing, no matter how they proceeded. I feel like issues like this are going to taint this film....whether people feel they are justified or not. Because personal opinions will come into the equation.

I actually didn't get that from the film....at all. With the exception of Kilmonger (who is the villain) no other character pushed forth that narrative that "everyone of non African decent is evil".

In terms of the Vibranium tech incorporated with the tribal traditions.....well, that's what Stan Lee & Jack Kirby created. It's simply apart of the fictional characters backstory & the world that was created (much like Star Wars incorporates light sabers, space ships & tech, on worlds that look underdeveloped).

I don't think there's an underlying message there. In the universe of comic book based worlds, there has to be a sense of disbelief.

The "white guilt propaganda" is something that I'm honestly not seeing, but I feel like it's going to be brought up again. And I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling like that. An opinion is simply that. Mine isn't any more valid than yours....

I just personally feel like that some people are viewing this film under a microscope.....Every line will be dissected.....( like the much discussed & criticized "colonizer" line. ) I, personally, thought it was a joke & my theater laughed loud.

I didn't see it as any different than Ed Norton's messing up speaking Spanish in TIH, or Stark's Shakespeare in the park line in Avengers (would if we applied the same logic....any of those could offend someone)

Anyway, just a different perspective I guess. I didn't feel any sense of guilt whatsoever, lol.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

It seems this movie is less about showing pride in African culture and more about trying to perpetuate the myth that everyone of non-African decent is on some level evil. That certainly has an audience in this era whether you buy in to the white guilt propaganda or are angry at society or your place in society in general.

Spoiler

It's about neither, the movie is really about Wakandian culture more than anyone else, and why it should remain a solo state not sharing its fortunes with other nations.

Nakia wants to share the true beauty of her nation with refugees from within the continent, W'Kabi wants their country to be purified and not bring in troubles of outside nations, that's why he declines the ideas of refugees. Although he joins N'Jadaka in his idea for conquest later, cause if they should share their wealth and ideals with the outside world, it's better to be in charge of them while they're out there instead of bringing them in.

N'Jadaka is bitter for all he's seen, all the killings he committed, and especially for losing his father at the hands of his uncle the king.

And then there are white boys commentary sprinkled in when dealing with Bilbo Baggins, but it's not that important to the story.

 

[Mistah K88]

That's why this movie was always going to be polarizing, no matter how they proceeded. I feel like issues like this are going to taint this film....whether people feel they are justified or not. Because personal opinions will come into the equation.

I actually didn't get that from the film....at all. With the exception of Kilmonger (who is the villain) no other character pushed forth that narrative that "everyone of non African decent is evil".

In terms of the Vibranium tech incorporated with the tribal traditions.....well, that's what Stan Lee & Jack Kirby created. It's simply apart of the fictional characters backstory & the world that was created (much like Star Wars incorporates light sabers, space ships & tech, on worlds that look underdeveloped).

I don't think there's an underlying message there. In the universe of comic book based worlds, there has to be a sense of disbelief.

The "white guilt propaganda" is something that I'm honestly not seeing, but I feel like it's going to be brought up again. And I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling like that. An opinion is simply that. Mine isn't any more valid than yours....

I just personally feel like that some people are viewing this film under a microscope.....Every line will be dissected.....( like the much discussed & criticized "colonizer" line. ) I, personally, thought it was a joke & my theater laughed loud.

I didn't see it as any different than Ed Norton's messing up speaking Spanish in TIH, or Stark's Shakespeare in the park line in Avengers (would if we applied the same logic....any of those could offend someone)

Anyway, just a different perspective I guess. I didn't feel any sense of guilt whatsoever, lol.

To tell you the truth, I agree with you. I feel that the people of non African descent were such a non factor in this movie that I didn’t see what others are seeing. I’ve heard people expressing they felt that there were African vs African American undertones in the film and I can see where they would get THAT from even though we have to mention that once again Killmonger is THE VILLAIN, so everything he does/says shouldn’t be taken as an extreme.

 

[FunkMiller]

It seems this movie is less about showing pride in African culture and more about trying to perpetuate the myth that everyone of non-African decent is on some level evil. .

Eh. I'm more than comfortable with that. I'm British, and for years Americans were making us the villains in their movies over and over again. Nothing wrong with being framed as the bad guy once in a while.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Yeah, so this was great. Better than I thought it was going to be which I feared it would just feel like another Marvel film. But when I saw that shot of the kids playing basketball I could tell this was in the hands of a director who's personal and unique style came through and wasn't watered down. Things that are typically forgettable in a Marvel movie aren't here. The soundtrack being another example and Killmonger who is the third best Marvel villain. This movie was still on my mind, which is saying something considering most movies I see I don't give much thought to the next day.

9/10

 

[chaseter]

This movie had way too much cgi, they made Black Panther pretty much indestructible in his new suit

Spoiler

(unless on a vibranium train track),

they made no mention of the Wakandan tech except for the gizmos (like how their ships are powered by sound waves), they made vibranium a solution for everything, and a lot of the acting outside the main group felt wooden, and they decided to throw in racial digs...because we all want to watch a movie that is heavy in racial history hand slapping. People are way over romanticizing this film. The action was short and frantic.

Visuals were nice, Killmonger was well developed, Boseman is great.

I would say it was an ok film. Definitely not the best Marvel film.

The most annoying was when they had the king battle on the waterfall, everyone on the mountain a) looked like terrible cgi placement and b) they were all doing this

7/10

 

[Incredible Hans]

It was good, really good... but not great.

What's to like:
- The visuals were stunning (and that's still an understatement)
- Acting was good
- Strong main villain

What's not to like:
- At some times the plot was very, very predictable
- Some CGI
- Oversimplification of complex political issues

 

[onDgrind]

One of my best cinema experience. First movie i have seen with applause at the end by the crowd. Everything just clicked , Mbaku was funny and it wasnt even forced. The movie flowed with no drag. The music was fantastic , loved it. 9.5/10

 

[Chris B]

I loved the film and it will certainly join the ranks of my personal favorite MCU films.

I know it is going to sound hyperbolic, but I'm really tempted to give to rate this as 10/10. That may change on a second viewing, but I'm struggling to think of anything ATM that I really had a major problem with. I guess if there was one thing that I would've preferred done differently it would be [BLACKOUT]at least one of Killmonger or Klaw surviving and being available to for use in the sequels[/BLACKOUT] but that not being the case wasn't a huge deal for me.

 

[DeadStroke]

"The movie finished, and I looked over at Ryan, I said, 'that's the best movie we've ever made,'" Feige said. You can check out the entire interview in the video above.

http://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/02/...e-kevin-feige/

After seeing it a 2nd time I think I might agree.

 

[TheVileOne]

http://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/02/...e-kevin-feige/

After seeing it a 2nd time I think I might agree.

Reminds me of this about Iron Man 3.

….We have what I think is the biggest, you know, most action packed finale we’ve had. I showed the film to Joss Whedon who is our writer-director of Avengers, is currently working on Avengers 2, and he saw the finale of this and he goes, now what am I supposed to do now? What am I going to do in Avengers 2?

 

[DeadStroke]

Reminds me of this about Iron Man 3.

I think there's more validity in his recent comment than this.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think there's more validity in his recent comment than this.

I would say it's a better movie than Iron Man 3

 

[DeadStroke]

I would say it's a better movie than Iron Man 3

Feige might point to the 97% on RT and 88 metacritic to vouch for him not being so crazy.

 

[rashad]

This was a really good movie. A bit overhyped though.

8/10

 

[zephyrinthesky]

Just came back from an IMAX screening and working through the subsequent pounding headache, but overall I think I'll give this one a 7.5/10. To jot down a few points:

The good:

• Chadwick Boseman is fantastic as T'Challa and I'm really excited to see him as an undisputed and more confident king in Infinity War.
• Killmonger is a great villain.
• The production and costume designers knocked it out of the park creating Wakanda.
• Shuri, Okoye and Nakia were formidable characters of their own.
• I really liked how grounded the movie was in real-world, contemporary politics.
• The humor was well-done and used in moderation for the most part.

The bad:

• I have to say.....there were a lot of familiar Marvel origin story elements at work here, from how the three acts played out and how the villain's powers mirrored the hero's.
• [BLACKOUT]T'Challa surviving that fall from the waterfall was a stretch that screamed plot armour.[/BLACKOUT]
• The VFX ranged from passable to really bad (considering the film's budget), with some obvious backgrounds, the final fight on the train track, and the rhinos.
• Aside from the waterfall duels and the car chase, the action scenes were kind of meh.
• M'Baku's humor and [BLACKOUT]change of heart at the end[/BLACKOUT] were kind of head-scratchers for me. [BLACKOUT]I'm still confused as to what compelled him to change his mind and bring his army to the final fight.[/BLACKOUT]

Overall, BP did a lot of things differently than other Marvel films which was awesome, but also had a lot of familiar origin-story elements that killed any sense of mystery of how I felt the movie was going to go. I think the critical hype is a bit overblown in part because of the film's cast, African-centric setting and box office. A very good movie that I think is one of the strongest MCU entries, but is held back by a familiar narrative structure.

 

[Incredible Hans]

Yes, there were definitely some plot points where I thought "We've seen that before, right?"

So, let's take a look at Black Panther and Spider-Man 3...

[BLACKOUT]- Black Panther: "I need your help, M'Baku. I cannot fight Killmonger and his army alone."
- Spider-Man: "I need your help, Harry. I cannot fight Venom and the Sandman alone."

- M'Baku: "No!"
- Harry Osborn: "No!"

- But then, later in the battle, when all seems lost, M'Baku comes to Panther's aid because... he changed his mind for no apparent reason.
- But then, later in the battle, when all seems lost, Harry comes to Spider-Man's aid because.... he changed his mind for no apparent reason.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Blade X]

How many fight scenes were in this film and how long were they?