Body Modification is a strange thing

[jaguarr]

I think serious body mods often have serious health risks, I don't think things like scrotal implants and six inch screw on horns are just self expression. Sorry mate but that's my opinion.

- Whirly

Hmmm....people in our society do things every single day that carry some significant health risks and yet no one considers them to be abnormal, self-loathing or mentally ill. People smoke like there's no tomorrow (and for many of them, there isn't one. ), drink in excess, consume processed foods like gluttons, and drive recklessly. Hell, there are even some bodybuilders who inject themselves with anabolic steroids, knowing full well that there are risks associated with doing so (usually, anyway). So, I don't see how someone putting implants under their skin is any different from those people, to be honest with you.

jag

 

[Danalys]

just because people aren't thinking about those things, doesn't make them not a problem. remember what i said about the insane asylum earlier.

 

[jaguarr]

just because people aren't thinking about those things, doesn't make them not a problem.

Sure, they're a problem, but they're also an accepted part of our culture far more than someone with giant earlobes and a big tattoo on their neck is.

jag

 

[Lurk]

Interesting I said many and numerous reasons to which you were just rude and made the comment

May I politely answer your post with the statement "learn to comprehend many reasons means more than one".



Yeah, you are so very polite

We've already established there are many reasons people body-mod. That isn't up for debate. You, on the other hand, continue to press the point that it *isn't* self-expression.

I think serious body mods often have serious health risks, I don't think things like scrotal implants and six inch screw on horns are just self expression. Sorry mate but that's my opinion.

- Whirly

I have a question for you do you consider this normal self expression to put syringes and baby dolls in your hair? Please explain it as "art" because I personally think it's a poor attempt to shock.

http://www.bodymod.org/BMO-Wallpapers/Lola.jpg[/IMG0

- Whirly[/quote]
I could give a crap what people to their hair. She likes it, she feels it expresses however she wants the world the view, so f-ing what?

 

[Whirlysplat]

Hmmm....people in our society do things every single day that carry some significant health risks and yet no one considers them to be abnormal, self-loathing or mentally ill. People smoke like there's no tomorrow (and for many of them, there isn't one. ), drink in excess, consume processed foods like gluttons, and drive recklessly. Hell, there are even some bodybuilders who inject themselves with anabolic steroids, knowing full well that there are risks associated with doing so (usually, anyway). So, I don't see how someone putting implants under their skin is any different from those people, to be honest with you.

jag

Yes and we have discussed my past steroid abuse It was, I would say an act that at the time seemed rational and I justified with it was to be the best I could be in my chosen sport. On reflection I think it was perhaps a mild temporary psychosis. Because unless huge financial gain is a possibility, most steroids are a step to far. That said it was in least part to shock in the same way bodymods are.

- Whirly

 

[Danalys]

Sure, they're a problem, but they're also an accepted part of our culture far more than someone with giant earlobes and a big tattoo on their neck is.

jag

i don't accept them. also i don't mind tattoo so much. they don't do much harm at all. just masks what skin colour was there. and you can still see if the skin is in good condition. structural changes bother me far more.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Yeah, you are so very polite

I know I am polite and you still haven't answered my question.

We've already established there are many reasons people body-mod. That isn't up for debate.

Yes I started it early in this thread for everyone.

You, on the other hand, continue to press the point that it *isn't* self-expression.

I don't think much of it is, but that's my opinion. You have yours it doen't mean I will insult you. Many psychologists and posters in this thread agree with my statements. You don't. Here's another word for you "subjective" let's add a third "observation".

Interesting I said many and numerous reasons to which you were just rude and made the comment

May I politely answer your post with the statement "learn to comprehend many reasons means more than one".

I could give a crap what people to their hair. She likes it, she feels it expresses however she wants the world the view, so f-ing what?

What a charming edit.

- Whirly

 

[Daisy]

I have a question for you do you consider this normal self expression to put syringes and baby dolls in your hair? Please explain it as "art" because I personally think it's a poor attempt to shock.

- Whirly

Except that it's likely not all that 'shocking' to the people she associates with. It's a picture posted on a body modification site. The intended audience isn't your average John or Jane.

Furthermore, the syringes and baby dolls are removable. Most of what's on her face isn't permanent - it's make up. You don't know that she runs around looking like that all the time. Yes, she likely leaves her piercing in, and has some things that make a number of people look twice (although it's possible she takes them out and dresses very conservatively and goes to work all buttoned up as a bank executive during the week - possible, but I'll admit not probable), but you don't know whether or not what you're seeing there is how she presents herself as she walks down 'Main Street' or if it's how she dresses up to go out with like-minded friends.

 

[jaguarr]

Yes and we have discussed my past steroid abuse It was I would say an act that at the time seemed rational and I justified with it was to be the best I could be in my chosen sport. On reflection I think it was perhaps a mild temporary psychosis. Because unless huge financial gain is a possibility most steroids are a step to far. That said it was in least part to shock in the same way bodymods are.

- Whirly

Ahhh, but not all bodymods are intended to shock, even some of the quite extreme ones. They really are done for self-expression a large percentage of the time, man. I have friends with Maori tribal tattooing on their faces, and whether anyone believes them or not about it, they really did do it as an expression of who they are and what they are about. Same goes for my friends with implants under their skin or that are nearly covered from head to toe in tattoo work. I *DO* know people who have tattoos or body mods because they wanted to be trendy or shock people or because they were unhappy individuals when they got them. They exist, yes. However, some of those people found a peace in their own body modifications that they never were able to achieve prior to that, and they've come to embrace it as self-expression rather than a way to lash out and use that to find some semblance of zen on this crazy planet. We all evolve and grow, after all.

jag

 

[jaguarr]

i don't accept them. also i don't mind tattoo so much. they don't do much harm at all. just masks what skin colour was there. and you can still see if the skin is in good condition. structural changes bother me far more.

So let me ask you a question I asked before that you never answered: Do you feel the same way about cross-dressers or transgendered people?

jag

 

[Danalys]

depends on the reasons but it would be hard to go cross dressing if everyone was naked. transgender or the "fixing" of it is cosmetic surgery and i'm against that. not bothered to remember the exact definition of transgendered right now. going out soon anyway.

 

[jaguarr]

Many psychologists and posters in this thread agree with my statements.

But here's the rub: there are equally as many psychologists who don't agree with those suppositions and subscribe body-modification more to self-expression than they do self-abuse. I just want to be sure that we're clear that, even as there are differing opinions on this here on this forum, the same holds true in the psychological and anthropological communities.

jag

 

[jaguarr]

depends on the reasons but it would be hard to go cross dressing if everyone was naked. transgender is cosmetic surgury and i'm against that.

Well, everyone's not naked and that's never going to happen unless you go and join a nudist colony. To make sure I understand this, though, you're against all cosmetic surgery?

jag

 

[Danalys]

yep. reconstructive is different.

 

[Daisy]

yep. reconstructive is different.

What if it's deconstructive?

 

[Lurk]

I know I am polite and you still haven't answered my question.

It's too bad you don't recognize your own rude abrasiveness. Good luck with that. (If you actually need an example, just review the last sentence of this post - here's a word for ya, "condescension".)

And what question haven't I answered?

Yes I started it early in this thread for everyone.

Um, no, you started the thread pointing out how bizzare you think body-modding is. Others came in to defend it and explain the various reasons people do it.

And even if you say you do, you don't seem to believe there are many reasons when you keep bringing up things like horns or implants, insisting they aren't self-expressive.

I don't think much of it is, but that's my opinion. You have yours it doen't mean I will insult you. Many psychologists and posters in this thread agree with my statements. You don't. Here's another word for you "subjective" let's add a third "observation".

- Whirly

 

[Whirlysplat]

Except that it's likely not all that 'shocking' to the people she associates with. It's a picture posted on a body modification site. The intended audience isn't your average John or Jane.

Furthermore, the syringes and baby dolls are removable. Most of what's on her face isn't permanent - it's make up. You don't know that she runs around looking like that all the time. Yes, she likely leaves her piercing in, and has some things that make a number of people look twice (although it's possible she takes them out and dresses very conservatively and goes to work all buttoned up as a bank executive during the week - possible, but I'll admit not probable), but you don't know whether or not what you're seeing there is how she presents herself as she walks down 'Main Street' or if it's how she dresses up to go out with like-minded friends.

The people on the site are not her main targets they could be considered part of the problem in that some psychosis spread through vindictaion from a small number of "peers". I agree with you it's unlikely she works in a bank.

Ahhh, but not all bodymods are intended to shock, even some of the quite extreme ones. They really are done for self-expression a large percentage of the time, man. I have friends with Maori tribal tattooing on their faces, and whether anyone believes them or not about it, they really did do it as an expression of who they are and what they are about. Same goes for my friends with implants under their skin or that are nearly covered from head to toe in tattoo work. I *DO* know people who have tattoos or body mods because they wanted to be trendy or shock people or because they were unhappy individuals when they got them. They exist, yes. However, some of those people found a peace in their own body modifications that they never were able to achieve prior to that, and they've come to embrace it as self-expression rather than a way to lash out and use that to find some semblance of zen on this crazy planet. We all evolve and grow, after all.

jag

I disagree I think most body mods are done to shock.

So let me ask you a question I asked before that you never answered: Do you feel the same way about cross-dressers or transgendered people?

jag

I know it's not aimed at me but this is an interesting question and leads us to the body modification/mutilation fetish debate

But here's the rub: there are equally as many psychologists who don't agree with those suppositions and subscribe body-modification more to self-expression than they do self-abuse. I just want to be sure that we're clear that, even as there are differing opinions on this here on this forum, the same holds true in the psychological and anthropological communities.

jag

Again I disagree I think many more psychologists would argue that in our culture body mods are to shock or a cry for attention or help more often than not. As I stated earlier these are not the only reasons.

- Whirly

 

[Danalys]

you'll have to explain the concept behind what you are calling deconstructive surgery. but i'd have to answer much later anyway. bye for now.

 

[jaguarr]

What if it's deconstructive?

Or just constructive?

Again, as with other types of body modification, why would anyone care whether someone has cosmetic surgery or not? It affects them as individuals in no way shape or form, really. The only exception I can think of is if you marry someone who's had extensive cosmetic surgery and you have children who look like trolls thanks to that parent's genes and true physical features, and then it really comes down to an ethics question of disclosure more than anything else. Otherwise, it doesn't affect anyone but the person who has it done.

jag

 

[Whirlysplat]

It's too bad you don't recognize your own rude abrasiveness. Good luck with that. (If you actually need an example, just review the last sentence of this post - here's a word for ya, "condescension".)

And what a good word it is, you obviously looked up the other ones and did a bit of reading. Well done.



Off to do some bodymodification at the gym now. No horns or pins needed except the pins in the lat pull down machine.

- Whirly

 

[Lurk]

Damn, I was totally wrong, this is the most polite guy on earth.

 

[Daisy]

you'll have to explain the concept behind what you are calling deconstructive surgery. but i'd have to answer much later anyway. bye for now.

Well...

breast reduction
wart/mole removal
removing eyelid folds
removing sixth fingers or toes or third nipples

none of those are what I would call "reconstructive"

 

[jaguarr]

I disagree I think most body mods are done to shock.

Well, I'm sure you'll forgive me for putting the opinions of the MANY people I know with body modifications over your own, then.

I know it's not aimed at me but this is an interesting question and leads us to the body modification/mutilation fetish debate

See, where transgendered people are concerned, I put this discussion more in the gender identity issue category than I would one around body mod and mutilation fetishes. Two separate issues as far as I'm concerned.

Again I disagree I think many more psychologists would argue that in our culture body mods are to shock or a cry for attention or hepl more often than not. As I stated earlier these are not the only reasons.

- Whirly

No, they're not the only reasons, but the psychology community is pretty well divided on this issue, to be honest with you.

jag

 

[jaguarr]

And what a good word it is, you obviously looked up the other ones and did a bit of reading. Well done.



Off to do some bodymodification at the gym now. No horns or pins needed except the pins in the lat pull down machine.

- Whirly

You're not still doing Test-E pins, are you?

jag

 

[Whirlysplat]

You're not still doing Test-E pins, are you?

jag

Nope.



We'll talk about transgenderism and fetishism in the context of this thread later mate.

Damn, I was totally wrong, this is the most polite guy on earth.

have a good evening mate.

You to Daisy and Dana this has been fun.

- Whirly