Bone claws!?

[WeaponXProject]

I feel differently, the bone claws keep the sense that Wolverine was always an animal in some ways. His rage, his ability to track a scent, his hearing, and his look. The bone claws kinda keep that animal in him so it seems like he was animal even before the Weapon X procedure.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Bone claws are logical. Why? Because before bone claws, Wolverine's claws were merely an "accident" of his adamantium grafting process. And frankly, that's even dumber then the bone claws explanation. Why?

Well, I could buy it that somehow the claws form inside his body, but if they're an accident, then he still wouldn't have any of the muscles in his arm required to move the claws. If the claws weren't already a part of him, they would be useless.

For the claws to work and not be a part of him, weapon X would have had to implant some kind of switchblade mechanisim that Wolverine could also somehow initiate mentally. Which would be extremely tough. But the problem with that was, they didn't. Before bone claws the explanation was simply "they were an accident, a side effect."

And like I said, by that explanation, Wolverine wouldn't be able to move the friggin things because he has no muscles in his arm that could move the claws. So Bone claws are the most logical things for Wolverine.

Not only that, Bone claws allow for the best recent Wolverine story to be told (even if only in breif flashbacks) which would be Origin. Bone claws played a big factor in that story.

 

[Ultimate Movie-Man]

I think if they just have it that was his mutation along with his healing abilities (think about it, otherwise him just having healing abilities is a bit iffy).
Having him have bone claws BEFORE the adamantium claws would make sense, if your opinion is the bone isn't as strong as adamantium...well, it goes without saying.

Do you get me? Like, Stryker just makes him more powerful sort of thing. I'd buy that.

 

[Sturmwolf]

Bone claws are logical. Why? Because before bone claws, Wolverine's claws were merely an "accident" of his adamantium grafting process. And frankly, that's even dumber then the bone claws explanation. Why?

Did I miss something?
"Accident"?
Correct me if I'm wrong.
But the old story (before bone claws) was that they were cybernatically implanted adamantium blades with a muscle triggered switchblademechanism, like in the Shadowrun RPG.
The new story was that he always had the claws as a part of his natural skeleton, so that he can trigger them with his natural muscles, like every other animal with retracable claws and they were covered with adamantium during the weapon X project.
Right?
In either way, the trigger is explained.
What's your frickin point, man??

 

[ICXCNIKA]

What kind of nonesense your talking about?
Useless?
With a healing factor like Logans?
With a martial arts training?
Special tactics training?
Assassinationskills?
Enhanced senses?
Clawy essential?
Why?
Because he had them since his first appearance in the comic book?
That because he had a background before.
Why would he be weakend?
If the movie Logan never gets de-adamantionized it's without any intrest.
The Originstory wouldn't be hurt if the claws become cybernatical implants again.
In fact...i think a lot of fans would be pleased, escacially me, if the boneclawgarbage is drop out of the canon.
They always lead to useless arguments.
Some dc-style-crisis should get rid of the boneclawsubject.
And the stupid writer who invented them in the first place should be beaten with a wet towel!

O.K. If a Wolverine/X-Men film never brings up the subject of why Wolverine has claws, and Magneto never rips the adamantium from Wolverine's skeleton (which will probably never happen on film, thank goodness), then fine, leave the bone claws story out. But the odds are, at some point in a Wolverine/X-Men film, the issue of why exactly Wolverine has claws will be brought up, and if they make it whereby he was born without bone claws, when so many will expect the bone claws idea to be included, it will destroy the character. Back in the day, when the idea of Wolverine losing his adamantium skeleton was inconceivable, and the idea of Wolverine's origin being revealed was inconceivable, then fine, the idea of bone claws was useless. Eventually, however, Wolverine did lose his adamantium skeleton, and his origin was revealed, and his having bone claws is now canon, and a great improvement on the character.

And yes, the Origin storyline used in a movie will have to be left out completely if movie Wolveine doesn't have natural bone claws. They're the most important part of Origin!

And yes, when up against a powerful mutant foe like Sabretooth, Apocalypse, or Omega Red, etc., Wolverine, without claws, I'm sorry to say, is useless, or near useless! His healing factor and samurai training will just keep him alive a little longer before he gets utterly slaugtered! Can you imagine Wolverine and the X-Men going into battle against Apocalype, and all Wolverine has is his instantaneous healing factor, temper, hightened animal senses, martial arts training, and a non-adamantium samurai sword?! What's he gonna do?! He'll be the first X-Man to die, and not to mention be the least superhero-looking of all the characters! It's awesome when Wolverine pops his claws, adamantium or bone! It's expected! It freaks the villains out, not to mention any onlookers! It makes Wolverine all the more animal-like! It's an iconic image! Plus, what if Wolverine drops this samurai sword, or it breaks?! What an utterly inconvenient weapon! At least if he has bone claws, he has six of them, and can keep going even if a few get broken. Not to mention he can't drop them. Plus, Wolverine looks awesome fighting with all broken bone claws, anyway! Wolveine without bone claws can't even defeat Sabretooth!

Wolverine having natural bone claws was one of the greatest comic book ideas ever!

Think of it this way: If you were Wolverine, wouldn't you want natural bone claws?! Or if you were Spider-Man, wouldn't you want organic webbing?! How can a person be opposed to superheroes having these awesome extra powers?!

 

[ICXCNIKA]

Bone claws are logical. Why? Because before bone claws, Wolverine's claws were merely an "accident" of his adamantium grafting process. And frankly, that's even dumber then the bone claws explanation. Why?

Well, I could buy it that somehow the claws form inside his body, but if they're an accident, then he still wouldn't have any of the muscles in his arm required to move the claws. If the claws weren't already a part of him, they would be useless.

For the claws to work and not be a part of him, weapon X would have had to implant some kind of switchblade mechanisim that Wolverine could also somehow initiate mentally. Which would be extremely tough. But the problem with that was, they didn't. Before bone claws the explanation was simply "they were an accident, a side effect."

And like I said, by that explanation, Wolverine wouldn't be able to move the friggin things because he has no muscles in his arm that could move the claws. So Bone claws are the most logical things for Wolverine.

Not only that, Bone claws allow for the best recent Wolverine story to be told (even if only in breif flashbacks) which would be Origin. Bone claws played a big factor in that story.

I agree with you, completely! I love bone claws, too! My question is, in the comics, was it really an "accident" that Wolverine had adamantium claws?! The Weapon X technicians couldn't possibly be that stupid--but being that Wolverine trashed the facility, I guess they were, or were unprepared for the violence Logan was actually capable of, particularly with adamantium claws! I believe, as with the X-Men/Wolverine films, the Weapon X technicians/Stryker saw the bone claws and grafted the adamantium on top of them, and just let Wolverine think they were an accident of the experiment, or as in the case with Stryker, there intentionally. I'm sure that's the case in the movies, as it should be in the comics.

However, it looks like Wolverine killed some Weapon X people in the movies. But I guess they lost control of him. Or, Stryker let him do that. The guy's evil, anyway. Those Weapon X guys Wolverine killed could even have been cyborgs--who knows?!

Bone claws rule, though, and are an essential part of the character!t:

 

[ICXCNIKA]

I feel differently, the bone claws keep the sense that Wolverine was always an animal in some ways. His rage, his ability to track a scent, his hearing, and his look. The bone claws kinda keep that animal in him so it seems like he was animal even before the Weapon X procedure.

Exactly!

 

[ICXCNIKA]

I think the bone claws are sort of pointless, especially in the films. X2 definitively establishes this line from Stryker: "You were an animal then and you're an animal now. I just gave you claws." Retconning things so that they fit the newest plot to be had in the films gives us another X3, which this film seriously needs to avoid if it hopes to have replay value of any kind.

From the script leak it would seem they're just going to go ahead with the bone claws anyway, so it really doesn't matter what we think. I still think it's not a good idea, though. I never really found the bone claws interesting and purposeless outside of giving him something to do when he doesn't have adamantium grafted to his skeleton. Unless they can explore early on what makes him become the gruff, wary individual he is through the claws and get rid of them quick enough I'd rather not see them. I'd rather they explore a Logan with a high healing factor and a metahuman level of strength who is cursed with the claws due to the project he had to endure.

I appreciate your thoughts, but in regards to the Stryker line, he could easily have been lying.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Did I miss something?
"Accident"?
Correct me if I'm wrong.
But the old story (before bone claws) was that they were cybernatically implanted adamantium blades with a muscle triggered switchblademechanism, like in the Shadowrun RPG.
The new story was that he always had the claws as a part of his natural skeleton, so that he can trigger them with his natural muscles, like every other animal with retracable claws and they were covered with adamantium during the weapon X project.
Right?
In either way, the trigger is explained.
What's your frickin point, man??

No, the explanation, as given in the Barry Windsor Smith Weapon X storyline was that the claws were an accident the scientists didn't forsee. They were surprised by the emergence of his claws and thought they were a side effect of the transformation process.

Not only that, even with a switchblade explanation, how would he have been able to activate it? It would have had to respond to him mentally, because he can't move a random muscle in his arm to activate it, or else it might go off accidentally.

And my point was, the only explanation for Wolverine's claws that make sense is that the claws were natural, not put in him. That was the point of my entire post.

 

[Sturmwolf]

...
and a great improvement on the character.
...
They're the most important part of Origin!

And yes, when up against a powerful mutant foe like Sabretooth, Apocalypse, or Omega Red, etc., Wolverine, without claws, I'm sorry to say, is useless, or near useless! ...Can you imagine Wolverine and the X-Men going into battle against Apocalype, and all Wolverine has is his instantaneous healing factor, temper, hightened animal senses, martial arts training, and a non-adamantium samurai sword?! ...

Wolverine having natural bone claws was one of the greatest comic book ideas ever!
...

Hold your fire man...
I do realize that you are pretty amazed by the bone claw thing...
but you just talking trash anyway.
The bone claws are NO improvement.
What for?
Just in case he get deadamantiumnized?
After they trashed the story with the first appearance of them, they HAD to mention them into the origin story.
They just tried to make sense into it anyhow.
If they had him left without claws after the Magneto rip out, they wouldn't be mentioned in the origin story.
(My god...are my gramatical times correct?!)
And nobody would have ever missed them!

About uselessness...enhanced senses, reflexes, strength, durability, combattraining....??
Sounds like, Daredevil...Captain America...Spider Man...or a dozend other full fledged heros of the marvel universe.
And a lot of them fight major villains.
And none of them has a healing factor compareable to Wolverines or an unbreakable skeleton.
In a hundred fights Wolverine was forced NOT to use his claws by his teammates, was he useless then?

Sorry, but I can't agree you.
Bone claws were one of the most stupid comic book ideas ever!

 

[Sturmwolf]

No, the explanation, as given in the Barry Windsor Smith Weapon X storyline was that the claws were an accident the scientists didn't forsee. They were surprised by the emergence of his claws and thought they were a side effect of the transformation process.

Not only that, even with a switchblade explanation, how would he have been able to activate it? It would have had to respond to him mentally, because he can't move a random muscle in his arm to activate it, or else it might go off accidentally.

And my point was, the only explanation for Wolverine's claws that make sense is that the claws were natural, not put in him. That was the point of my entire post.

Okok....I never read that.^^
But it sound so funny to me.
Funny...not in an entertaining way...but more like blooper funnny.
The scientist "didn't forsee it"?
They missed to notice that their subject has a lot of extrabones in his arms?
Couldn't Wolverine use them before?

And the "only" explanation point thing...
what makes the cyber claws explanation impossible in your mind?
And why does it have to be "mentally" activated?
It is a trained muscle activation.
Nobody said that the claws are easy to use.^^

 

[Infinity9999x]

Okok....I never read that.^^
But it sound so funny to me.
Funny...not in an entertaining way...but more like blooper funnny.
The scientist "didn't forsee it"?
They missed to notice that their subject has a lot of extrabones in his arms?
Couldn't Wolverine use them before?

And the "only" explanation point thing...
what makes the cyber claws explanation impossible in your mind?
And why does it have to be "mentally" activated?
It is a trained muscle activation.
Nobody said that the claws are easy to use.^^

Yeah, I thought the accident solution was a bad explanation too.

Well, the problem I saw with cyber claws was always, what muscle in his arm did they teach to activate his claws? The human body doesn't have a muscle in it's arm that can do that, and with the cyber claw explanation neither does Wolverine. Did they somehow train another muscle in his arm to do that? And if they did, how did they rework his anatomy that way? Which is why I always thought that if it were cyber, they would have had to connected the claws to his brain in a way he could mentally activate them.

The bone claws always seemed the most logical explanation to me.

 

[Sturmwolf]

Yeah, I thought the accident solution was a bad explanation too.

Well, the problem I saw with cyber claws was always, what muscle in his arm did they teach to activate his claws? The human body doesn't have a muscle in it's arm that can do that, and with the cyber claw explanation neither does Wolverine. Did they somehow train another muscle in his arm to do that? And if they did, how did they rework his anatomy that way? Which is why I always thought that if it were cyber, they would have had to connected the claws to his brain in a way he could mentally activate them.

The bone claws always seemed the most logical explanation to me.

First of all...we're talking about comics...and you ask which muscle exactly trigger the switchblademechanism??
We accept that a spiderbite could rearrange a persons DNA but debate about the muscle to trigger the claws??

And what difference would bone claw make?
They have to be triggern 2?

 

[ICXCNIKA]

Hold your fire man...
I do realize that you are pretty amazed by the bone claw thing...
but you just talking trash anyway.
The bone claws are NO improvement.
What for?
Just in case he get deadamantiumnized?
After they trashed the story with the first appearance of them, they HAD to mention them into the origin story.
They just tried to make sense into it anyhow.
If they had him left without claws after the Magneto rip out, they wouldn't be mentioned in the origin story.
(My god...are my gramatical times correct?!)
And nobody would have ever missed them!

About uselessness...enhanced senses, reflexes, strength, durability, combattraining....??
Sounds like, Daredevil...Captain America...Spider Man...or a dozend other full fledged heros of the marvel universe.
And a lot of them fight major villains.
And none of them has a healing factor compareable to Wolverines or an unbreakable skeleton.
In a hundred fights Wolverine was forced NOT to use his claws by his teammates, was he useless then?

Sorry, but I can't agree you.
Bone claws were one of the most stupid comic book ideas ever!

First of all, Wolverine's my favorite superhero, and I'm not talking trash. Second of all, claws, bone or adamantium, make the character! That's the whole point of Wolverine! Do you think that after Wolverine got his adamantium pulled out, and the writer's decided to have him clawless, his popularity would be the same as if he had claws?! No! The character would lose readers fast, and then the writer's would have to give him back mechanical claws.

I know Wolverine's still tough with or without his claws. There's no debating that. But who cares?! I agree; he's not exactly useless without his claws, but he's a boring character to watch and/or to read about without his claws! His having claws, bone or adamantium, hidden in his forearms, that he extracts like switchblades when going into battle, is the fun part of the character!

Look, if Wolverine never got his adamantium pulled out, and the story of his bone claws was never created, then yes, I agree, it's a great idea that his claws were purely mechanical and given to him in the Weapon X project, and that he considers them a "curse," more or less, and that with or without them, he's the best and toughest character ever. Although this still doesn't explain how the Weapon X technicians could create a mental trigger to activate the claws. But nevertheless, the writers eventually gave us the bone claws story. And quite frankly, I think it was a better and more efficient idea than Logan having purely mechanical claws.

Again, if you were Wolverine, wouldn't you want natural bone claws, too?! I sure would. Like Kevin Smith discussed, it's the convenience of Wolverine's weapons that's so awesome.

 

[Infinity9999x]

First of all...we're talking about comics...and you ask which muscle exactly trigger the switchblademechanism??
We accept that a spiderbite could rearrange a persons DNA but debate about the muscle to trigger the claws??

And what difference would bone claw make?
They have to be triggern 2?

Well you see, if the claws were natural, as the bone claws are, then he would always have a extra muscle group in his arm that would allow him to extract/retract his claws, as do all animals born with claws.

The mechanical explanation just wasn't as logical, and the one offered in the comics wasn't at all (the whole accident thing.) Though, if they had kept his claws purely added, and used the explanation you said, I probably wouldn't question it. But since we got a crap explanation in the comics instead, and then they changed it to him having bone claws, I've just always thought the bone claws more logical. And I really like the origin story, so I think he should keep the bone claws.

So really, bone claws weren't one of the stupidest comic ideas ever. They were logical, because they made more sense then the explanation offered before they were introduced. Making Spider-man get his powers from a "spider-god" and having Gwen Stacy boink Norman Osborn.....those are some of the dumbest ideas ever.

But you also have a point, arguing the logic in a comic is a silly thing to do, but then, if we didn't, we would have much to talk about would we? t:

 

[ICXCNIKA]

No, the explanation, as given in the Barry Windsor Smith Weapon X storyline was that the claws were an accident the scientists didn't forsee. They were surprised by the emergence of his claws and thought they were a side effect of the transformation process.

Not only that, even with a switchblade explanation, how would he have been able to activate it? It would have had to respond to him mentally, because he can't move a random muscle in his arm to activate it, or else it might go off accidentally.

And my point was, the only explanation for Wolverine's claws that make sense is that the claws were natural, not put in him. That was the point of my entire post.

Totally!

 

[Sturmwolf]

@ICXCNIKA
If u reduce Wolverine to just all about having claws, ur right.
But I think u miss 90% of the charachter.
And most fans wouldn't.
There are hundreds of comic and movie heroes with a steady fanbase.
But anyway...I thing you downgrad the character that way.
And asking to having bone claws or not, when I have adamantiom claws nonetheless is pointless.
That's no argument.
It's a choice about having claws or not.
That would be yes.
And if i have the choice...gimme the adamantium thingys.^^
Coz in the old story, at least they had been keen edged, not like the horny things nowadays.

@Infinity9999x
Please read some Cyberpunkstuff...
and talking logic...no natural claws come out at the knuckles or are rested in the forearm.
They are nailextentions.
So...no logic about that.
Artifical claws of that design a much more plausible.
And concidering the real life modern prosthesis the trigger would be the least problem.

btw...we still debate about the garbage the deadamantium story forced on us.
Can't we just agree on beating up the writer who came up with this ***** if me ever meet him?

(Bone claws not the stupidest comic idea ever...but close.)

 

[Infinity9999x]

@Infinity9999x
Please read some Cyberpunkstuff...
and talking logic...no natural claws come out at the knuckles or are rested in the forearm.
They are nailextentions.
So...no logic about that.
Artifical claws of that design a much more plausible.
And concidering the real life modern prosthesis the trigger would be the least problem.

btw...we still debate about the garbage the deadamantium story forced on us.
Can't we just agree on beating up the writer who came up with this ***** if me ever meet him?

(Bone claws not the stupidest comic idea ever...but close.)

Question, what's Cyberpunkstuff and why should I read it? J/W, because I really don't see what it has to do with the whole claw thing.

And no, no claws are housed in the forearms, but saying he's a mutant with natural claws still makes more sense then the explanation offered in the comics before that, which was that the claws were accidental. And what about the real life prosthesis, I still don't see how he could trigger the claws, if they were added into his skeleton, without it having to be mental, which in a comic wouldn't be that out there of an explanation, and still would have made more sense then the "accident" one they gave us, but I'm just saying.

I really never minded bone claws, like I said, they made more sense then the offered explanation in the oomics. Now, if the comics had gone with the explanation you offered, with the claws being cyborg like with somekind of advanced triggering mechanisim, then I would have thought the bone claws stupid, because that would have been throwing out a perfectly plausible explanation.

 

[Sturmwolf]

Question, what's Cyberpunkstuff and why should I read it? J/W, because I really don't see what it has to do with the whole claw thing.

Because cyberclaws like Wolverines (or other implanted weaponry) have been a pretty common motive in this genre.
Retractable razorblades under the fingernails, etc.
See movies like Johnny Mnemonic or read books like Neuromancer.
Perhaps the concept of artifical claws comes easier to you.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Because cyberclaws like Wolverines (or other implanted weaponry) have been a pretty common motive in this genre.
Retractable razorblades under the fingernails, etc.
See movies like Johnny Mnemonic or read books like Neuromancer.
Perhaps the concept of artifical claws comes easier to you.

Oh ok. I haven't seen Johnny Mnemonic or read Neuromancer, maybe I'll check them out.

And Like I said before, the whole cyber claws thing really wouldn't have been a bad explanation for his claws, actually it would have been a better one then what was first given. That was the only reason I said bone claws made more sense, because they made more sense then the first "accident" explanation.

 

[Turtle-Man]

He already has claws. Good enough. We don't want the spin-off movie to be about "how he got his claws". We want it to be a continuation of the story. We've already discovered his claws, now let's get to the plot.

OMG! 'X' YEARS OF HYPE AND WE GOT A MOVIE ABOUT WOLVERINE'S HAND! WAAH!

 

[D-day]

Holy cow!! I started thie Topic last summer and havent been back since and its still going strong.... nice one guys!!

 

[Ultimate Movie-Man]

 

[ICXCNIKA]

He already has claws. Good enough. We don't want the spin-off movie to be about "how he got his claws". We want it to be a continuation of the story. We've already discovered his claws, now let's get to the plot.

You know the movie's a prequel, right? So, "how he got his claws," may play an important role in the story.

 

[ICXCNIKA]

Oh ok. I haven't seen Johnny Mnemonic or read Neuromancer, maybe I'll check them out.

And Like I said before, the whole cyber claws thing really wouldn't have been a bad explanation for his claws, actually it would have been a better one then what was first given. That was the only reason I said bone claws made more sense, because they made more sense then the first "accident" explanation.

Yes, the cyber claws idea would have been better than the initial "accident" explanation. But still, I don't see how anyone can hate the idea of bone claws. It makes far more sense than either the "accident" or cyber claws ideas, and makes the character even more ferocious and animal-like! If bone claws are not incorporated into movie Wolverine's character, then movie Wolverine will have a completely different origin than his comic book counterpart. Do you people want the X-Men movies to deviate farther from the comic books than they already have?!!