He's not honoring Odin's wishes. I was explaining why Loki was allowed back into Asgard all those other times. Thor, as I said, let Loki back in because the slate is effectively wiped clean and this is a fresh start for all of Asgard. Thor's a legislator as well as a warrior now, and he's made it law that there's a de facto amnesty for the past. In order to honor that, all he can judge Loki on is what he knows Loki's done now, which is nothing.
Then, quite frankly, absolving Asgard's #1 threat and criminal on nothing more than a verbal promise, which Loki has broken virtually every time he has ever made one, shows a lot of inexperience and naivety at the least. It's the Blind Hope Theory; oh, sure, every single time they've given their word, they betray it, but THIS time will be different. Oh, yes, it will be.
Or not. And then the cycle continues, and they wonder why they wasted their time.
Would Thor be so quick to embrace the Wrecker as an ally and key advisor if he promised to never commit crimes with his enchantments again?
No, but then, they've never been Asgardian citizens. Loki is a member of the Asgardian community and falls under that general amnesty I spoke of.
So if you're a beastie, you get no second, third, or 100th chance. I mean, hey, maybe some orcs decide not to be evil anymore, or something.
Not such overt hypocrisy, especially in a culture like Asgard's, which values honor and nobility.
But Loki has never shown such honor. He has used such culture aspects to his advantage every single time. At the very least, Thor should be aware of that and not simply allow Loki free reign over everything. Lord knows if some former enemy of mine promised to reform, I would at LEAST keep an eye on him or her, and tell all my key allies, "remember, this fellow DID try to kill us all a dozen times by now."
Because again, as far as Thor knows, Loki's being honest this time and he's honor-bound to keep his word that the Asgardians are getting a fresh start. I'm sure he suspects Loki will betray him again, but he can't prove it, and that sort of burden is on his shoulders as the king of his people. If he casts Loki out just 'cause after he's already declared an amnesty on his past crimes, he's essentially inviting others to follow his example, which would be detrimental to his society. That's the nature of leadership: Thor's actions set the tone for all of Asgard now. If he reveals himself to be dishonest by casting Loki out for past sins when the past is supposed to be dead and buried, he's essentially a liar and no better than Loki himself.
But when...not IF, not WHEN, Loki betrays them all, and does some horrible scheme, the other Asgardians might be a little miffed at Thor for putting so much trust in his old enemy, and even Thor himself will probably go, "Twas foolish to see a sparkle of honor and hope in such a trickster" or something similar, and everyone in the audience will roll their eyes because Thor asked for it. That's the elephant in the room for me.
Yeah, and that's where the drama comes from. We all know Loki's already working against Thor, but Thor can't prove it so he's honor-bound to respect the laws he's put out there and leave Loki alone. You're effectively asking the characters to overcome dramatic irony here.
No. I am asking the writer to come up with a story where we can have drama without the characters seeming like naive, overtrusting toddlers. When your main characters make a decision that every single member of your audience knows is the wrong one and will lead to suffering, you need a very, very good reason to not make it seem like utter stupidity or gullibility. JMS hasn't done that for me. Believing so much in honor rules that you allow yourself to be perennially set up by scoundrels IS gullibility.
But Thor doesn't know that.
But Thor can't tie that to Loki in any meaningful way.
Thor doesn't know that, either.
It is inevitable that he will, and then there will be a "oh, why did I/we trust Loki again after everything!?" and I'll roll my eyes.
They should and probably are, but Loki's covered his tracks well enough that nobody can prove anything. That's why criminals are so dangerous: the burden of proof is on the law. Punishing people for crimes you can't prove is a clear sign of an unjust, corrupt society, which isn't what Thor is after here.
I disagree with the notion that Thor should have offered a complete, unconditional amnesty to Asgard's #1 enemy with no restrictions or even a probationary exercise. Now if we eventually find out that one was in place, perhaps it will be how Thor figures some of this out, then that could work.
And Thor would be the equivalent of an Asgardian Vic Mackey if he just tossed Loki out on his ass on mere suspicion.
Thor at the very least should have been more cautious and not just allow Loki free reign, especially since he is away from Asgard a lot of the time to "do his works" on Earth (which is usually talking to locals or healing people as Donald Blake). He's literally having the fox watch the hen-house. And then we are all supposed to take it seriously when Thor can't see this stuff coming?
The X-Men did accept that Magneto had reformed and even allowed him to teach children, and that was just a bunch of normal people with a personal feud. They don't have the burden of being the example for an entire society of people on their shoulders like Thor does.
I know the X-Men did; I should note that Xavier partly lied to the New Mutants about this by claiming Magneto was "Michael Xavier" when he was teaching them. I used that X-Men example precisely because I always thought it was a bit ludicrous. Like, gee, you fellas REALLY were surprised when he tried to teach the New Mutants to be more militant against humanity? SERIOUSLY!?
Balder did hesitate. He denied and denied and denied Loki at first. Then Loki suggested that Balder was Odin's illegitimate son and Thor confirmed it. That's the key to the current predicament Balder finds himself in. He loves Thor and wants to believe in him, but he sees truth in what Loki's saying because he's too intelligent and noble not to, and he already knows Thor lied to him about one majorly important matter. That's bound to rock his faith in Thor a bit, and that tiny bit of doubt is all that Loki needs to plant more seeds. So, in reality, it's like if a dark secret about the US president were revealed by the Red Skull and Captain America shrugged it off until the president himself admitted it. The situation's not so clear-cut in that case, is it?
But would Cap then immediately make the Red Skull his key and only confidant and adviser? Would he then believe every next word Red Skull said? If one cover-up makes Thor the equal to the ex-fiend Loki in Balder's eyes, then I guess breasts really are distracting.
I don't see Balder as conflicted. I seem him as agreeing with everything Loki has said to him after that exchange. He's no better than when Emma Frost used to lead Cyclops around like a dog on a leash for years, no matter how rough she was being with the Academy X kids or whatever. If anything, I see Balder as gullible, and Thor as being naive and reckless for allowing his #1 enemy so much room and influence, as well as opportunity.
I mean, c'mon man, we know where all this is going. Loki becomes Balder's key adviser and manipulates him, and through him, Asgard, into some sort of trouble or other. It's Saturday Morning TV logic, and while that's fine for X-MEN: FIRST CLASS, I expect a bit more from JMS.
I suppose the case could've been strengthened with body swaps or other contrivances, but Heimdall would probably be able to see through that. Sif's his sister, so if Loki f***ed with her, he'd probably kill him himself.
Yeah, I was only rattling off alternatives.
Regardless, I'm sure it could've been handled differently, but what we got, if you really examine it logically from the gods' perspective without the constant "Loki is evil and everything he says is a lie, period" bias, there's a pretty strong story being presented here. A very deep, subtle layer of intrigue and doubt has been laid over Asgard's seemingly utopian veneer, and I think you're dismissing it too quickly in black-and-white terms that the characters simply can't use. Loki, as far as Thor or Balder or anyone else in Asgard knows right now, is clean. His past sins are meant to be forgotten, although we've seen that that doesn't mean much to some people, and he's not "violating his parole," essentially, in any way that any of the other Asgardians can see.
But it isn't a bias; Loki is evil and everything he/she does say is a lie, a half truth, or merely serves his own agenda. It's like when Reed trusts something Dr. Doom says for some reason or another and the rest of the Four just shake their heads and make some snide comment, and wait for Doom to show his treachery, and he always does. After a while on the merry-go-round, I want something different.
Loki has no parole to violate. Thor in no way has restricted Loki's access or affairs in Asgard. Thor's allowed him to do whatever he wants.
Now, of course, if the climax of this story turns out to be Thor saying something like, "I knew you couldn't change, Loki, so I left you enough rope to hang thyself, and it is a shame on yourself that you are so predictable and wasted this opportunity" or something, that would be fine. Although, again, it is potentially reckless for setting up Asgard for such danger in the first place, especially with the gods being more "mortal" on Earth. If Thor truly believes Loki can change, then he's just stupidly naive. Even Superman has learned to stop trusting Lex Luthor, and it only took about 75 years.
It sort of reminds me of Checkmate, in fact. Amanda Waller was appointed as the White Queen but turned out to be the villain--which we all knew she would based on her past misdeeds--but none of the other Checkmate royals could prove anything about her actions at the time, so they were powerless to move against her. That same sort of political intrigue is playing out amongst the gods, which brings a really interesting dimension to them that they lacked before.
I like political intrigue to a degree, but I just figured a story where the key players didn't look like they were naively trusting Loki to change was at the root of it. Thor accepted Loki back on nothing more than a promise, with no probation, no "test of honor " or something to fulfill, zippo. Balder has so much "love" for Thor, but dismisses him after one exposed secret and turns to his deadliest enemy of the past. Don't confuse JMS taking 4 issues to get to every predictable plot point to mean it is more complex than it is. It isn't.
I find it hard to suspend disbelief when characters who should know better don't. CHECKMATE is based in real rules and laws; Thor's Asgard basically has whatever rules he wants (Thor of course wants to run a good Asgard and all that). Had Thor put Loki on some sort of leash, some sort of probation or a simple test of honor or something before all this, maybe during a lot of those wasted, meandering issues, I might be able to swallow this better. But right now the execution is spotty. I get where JMS wants to go, but he hasn't convinced me that Thor & Balder aren't being gullible.
And the issues are taking 2 to 3 times longer than they need to to be released--on this point, at least, we can definitely agree.
Indeed.
Although it is curious that when Thor does come out, Marvel likes to be sure we get 3 comics within a month of him. Overcompensate, much?
