Bought/Thought 3/26

[Darthphere]

Of course I can. It's art, just like anything else. Artists use all kinds of materials, including photos, to make something new. If that's his schtick, I'm allright with it. I don't think it makes for good comic art, but as far as "art" goes, I'm allright with it.

Do any of you know whether or not he has permission from the magazine to have used this. Because, if he does, it's all a moot point.

Actually, rumor has it that legal action from the magazine is what prompted the cover change.

 

[Darthphere]

If you like books like that, you should check out (if you don't already) Invincible, Firebreather and Dynamo 5.

Blue Beetle is better than all 3 of those titles.

 

[Egotastic]

Very possible. I mean, we're talking about a percentage point of all his works. Now, if you want to go through all his work, every single page or panel he's ever drawn and try to find swipes, go ahead. But for the most part, he's a still a talented artist who has done something really below his talent level for what I don't know. To meet a deadline? He got lazy? Didn't care enough? Doesn't matter, I'm not condoning swiping, it's stupid, lazy and irresponsible in some cases. If we can all forgive OJ, then I can forgive David Mack.

So you're assuming that because no one's been able to find actual proof that other panels are also swipes, then the ones that are swipes must be the only ones?

You're also assuming that this is the only time he's done this, when you offer up that it was done to meet a deadline. If that's the case, then he's had a serious problem with deadlines his entire career.

I never was or tried to justify it, all I said was I support David Mack. Does he deserve the **** storm on him right now? Sure. But I'll still buy one of his comics.

What exactly are you supporting, then? I mean, if you don't condone the actions and you think he deserves all the negative attention and ruined reputation, then what exactly are in support of?

Of course I can. It's art, just like anything else. Artists use all kinds of materials, including photos, to make something new. If that's his schtick, I'm allright with it. I don't think it makes for good comic art, but as far as "art" goes, I'm allright with it.

Do any of you know whether or not he has permission from the magazine to have used this. Because, if he does, it's all a moot point.

He doesn't.

 

[Egotastic]

Blue Beetle is better than all 3 of those titles.

Which, like all opinions, is debatable. I was just offering up other titles that play the fun, colorful superheroic type stories like Blue Beetle does.

 

[iloveclones]

Well then, screw him.

 

[Darthphere]

So you're assuming that because no one's been able to find actual proof that other panels are also swipes, then the ones that are swipes must be the only ones?

You're also assuming that this is the only time he's done this, when you offer up that it was done to meet a deadline. If that's the case, then he's had a serious problem with deadlines his entire career.

Actually he has, that's nothing new. He has never been good with deadlines. In general, people don't start off their careers swiping people like crazy. Look at all the infamous swipers, all late into their careers once they hit it big. And yes, I would say I am assuming that, but you're also assuming that he has been swiping left and right his whole career.

What exactly are you supporting, then? I mean, if you don't condone the actions and you think he deserves all the negative attention and ruined reputation, then what exactly are in support of? .

The man himself? I still think his art is great, and is a great painter. All he has to do is move to using his own models and photographs and none of this would matter. Be like Tim Bradstreet. I guess it's just sad how fast fans will turn on a guy when they feel they have some moral authority over the medium.

 

[Red]

Shameless.

 

[Egotastic]

Actually he has, that's nothing new. He has never been good with deadlines. In general, people don't start off their careers swiping people like crazy. Look at all the infamous swipers, all late into their careers once they hit it big. And yes, I would say I am assuming that, but you're also assuming that he has been swiping left and right his whole career.

That's incorrect. Mack did in fact start out swiping early on in his career. That's kind of why this is as big a deal as it is. He was swiping from Alan Davis and Frank Miller.

Secondly, I'm not assuming anything. I'm not assuming that he's been swiping left and right his entire career. He has been swiping left and right his entire career. You're the one making assumptions.

The man himself? I still think his art is great, and is a great painter. All he has to do is move to using his own models and photographs and none of this would matter. Be like Tim Bradstreet. I guess it's just sad how fast fans will turn on a guy when they feel they have some moral authority over the medium.

You would think Mack would realize this. You would think that, as an artist, Mack would want to use his own models and photographs.

 

[Darthphere]

That's incorrect. Mack did in fact start out swiping early on in his career. That's kind of why this is as big a deal as it is. He was swiping from Alan Davis and Frank Miller.

Secondly, I'm not assuming anything. I'm not assuming that he's been swiping left and right his entire career. He has been swiping left and right his entire career. You're the one making assumptions.

I need to see more than 5 examples to believe that. We're talking about facts right? If he really was swiping this rampantly throughout his career, it would be real easy to find 10, 15, 20 hell maybe 50 examples of him swiping right? I can't assume either way without any actual proof and I'm not going to sit here and go through every Mack comic to prove to everyone he didn't swipe all the time. So yeah, you're right, I'm going to sit here and assume he hasn't swiped his all career and these examples are just isolated instances.

You would think Mack would realize this. You would think that, as an artist, Mack would want to use his own models and photographs.

You know what, you're right again. But I think we need to make clear the difference between using a reference and a swipe. That line is getting to be really blurred in this day and age.

And to be perfectly honest, and you'll find this hard to believe, I'm not a David Mack fan at all. I don't read kabuki, I hated his Echo arc on Daredevil and only really liked him when he was doing covers on Alias, and some of those weren't that hot either.

 

[Egotastic]

I need to see more than 5 examples to believe that. We're talking about facts right? If he really was swiping this rampantly throughout his career, it would be real easy to find 10, 15, 20 hell maybe 50 examples of him swiping right? I can't assume either way without any actual proof and I'm not going to sit here and go through every Mack comic to prove to everyone he didn't swipe all the time. So yeah, you're right, I'm going to sit here and assume he hasn't swiped his all career and these examples are just isolated instances.

We never did find those WMD's in Iraq. I guess you still assume they're still there?

All it takes is a couple of swipes from early on in his career to tell me that he's not above that. That makes me wonder what else is a swipe. And when you see cases of him swiping from all points of his career, it casts a shadow of doubt over everything he does. I use two things to come up with this. One is logic. The other is reason. If someone steals money from me once, that's one thing. Twice, it's something else. Three times and now that person is labeled a thief. I'm not going to trust that person with my money ever again. All of his past and future actions will be called into question.

Do you see how that works?

You know what, you're right again. But I think we need to make clear the difference between using a reference and a swipe. That line is getting to be really blurred in this day and age.

And to be perfectly honest, and you'll find this hard to believe, I'm not a David Mack fan at all. I don't read kabuki, I hated his Echo arc on Daredevil and only really liked him when he was doing covers on Alias, and some of those weren't that hot either.

You take your own pictures, use your own models and you can trace the hell of them for all I care. It's still art in my book, because it was created fully by a single person with a single objective.

It's when you start involving other people's works without their permission, there become problems.

 

[Darthphere]

Dude, I said you were right in both quotes, you can stop now.

 

[Egotastic]

I know I'm right. I'm always right. You just seemed to have a little trouble understanding just how right I am.

 

[Darthphere]

I know I'm right. I'm always right. You just seemed to have a little trouble understanding just how right I am.

Now you're assuming things.

Also that WMD analogy was weak, since we know for a fact that they were never there.

 

[fifthfiend]

I can't assume either way without any actual proof

Oh you want actual proof. As opposed to the, like, five totally undeniable pieces of what I'm assuming are not-actual proof you've already been given?

Could you define "actual"? Cause you're apparently working with some definition of that word which I've never heard before.

If he really was swiping this rampantly throughout his career, it would be real easy to find 10, 15, 20 hell maybe 50 examples of him swiping right?

Seriously? That's your argument? That because some people only took the time to comb through enough of a guy's career's-worth of drawings and however many related magazines and other comic books to find five examples, that we're supposed to throw all that out, because they didn't take the totally enormous expense of personal time it would take to find fifty ****in' examples?

I mean that actually sounds reasonable to you, when you're saying it?

 

[Darthphere]

Oh you want actual proof. As opposed to the, like, five totally undeniable pieces of what I'm assuming are not-actual proof you've already been given?

Could you define "actual"? Cause you're apparently working with some definition of that word which I've never heard before.



Seriously? That's your argument? That because some people only took the time to comb through enough of a guy's career's-worth of drawings and however many related magazines and other comic books to find five examples, that we're supposed to throw all that out, because they didn't take the totally enormous expense of personal time it would take to find fifty ****in' examples?

I mean that actually sounds reasonable to you, when you're saying it?

I love how you always arrive in a debate a day late and a dollar short. We moved on.

Also, people who find swipes are usually losers with a lot of time on their hands. I mean, I have never read a comic and been like "Wow, that's a swipe, I've seen that before!" NEVER.

 

[fifthfiend]

I love how you always arrive in a debate a day late and a dollar short.

You mean "a day late" like 15 minutes ago? This is like ****ty-definitions day for you, isn't it?

 

[Darthphere]

You mean "a day late" like 15 minutes ago? This is like stupid-definitions day for you, isn't it?

Do you understand what a saying is?

And on the internet 15 minutes is a lifetime.

 

[Egotastic]

Now you're assuming things.

Also that WMD analogy was weak, since we know for a fact that they were never there.

And yet some people believe otherwise.

Anyway, I had to pick something that would be understandable to the lowest common denominator, because well, I was addressing you.

 

[fifthfiend]

Do you understand what a saying is?

I understand when a saying totally fails to describe a given situation, which is more than can be said for you.

 

[Darthphere]

And yet some people believe otherwise.

Anyway, I had to pick something that would be understandable to the lowest common denominator, because well, I was addressing you.

But them Arabs got dem missiles.

 

[Darthphere]

I understand when a saying totally fails to describe a given situation, which is more than can be said for you.

Except the saying does, stop being a little ***** about it because you caught feelings. Jesus. Take a midol.

 

[Red]

Cheese.

 

[Egotastic]

But them Arabs got dem missiles.

Exactly.

 

[iloveclones]

Wow, some of the above stuff is just swipetastic. I don't know why I was even defending the guy, I've never liked his art. Now I know why: it was never his. It was always just some bulimic primadonna.

 

[Egotastic]

David Mack is bulimic?