BOUGHT/THOUGHT for Wednesday, February 14th

you're really good at taking things out of context and putting words in people's mouthes, aren't you?

i know what multiple earths are. i don't like them. i think it's a half-assed way of explaining things. if you think differently, fine.

and "agreeing to disagree" means that i'm tired of trading posts with someone if it's not going anywhere. not your fault. not my fault.

is that okay? or do i have to sink to your level a snarkiness and petty?

"Guys, don't you think it was a mistake to let the mutant thing get out of hand?"
"Yeah, the X-Men are no longer a minority that's hunted and hated!:o"
"No, it's never a mistake! It's...uh...it'll be a cool event!"
"Yeah!"
"YEAH!! (Double !'s are teh awesome!!)"
"We'll make AN ALTERNATE EARTH and get rid of them!:up:"
"Dude, but that's lame ass city half assed excuse thing DC does!:rolleyes:"
"No, no, no, because it's THIS Earth that...Wanda made in an alternate reality.It's not, like, an alternate Earth, it's an alternate REALITY!"
"Oooooooh!!!:wow:"
"And then she says: "NO MORE MUTANTS!" and it all goes back to what it was before except with ONLY 666 mutants to signify that they're seen as evil again!"
"Brilliant."
"BRILLIANT!!"
*clink of dark beer mugs*
"Yeah, this is nothing like that Counter Earth Heroes Reborn crap. What a mistake that was!!:o"
**And everyone lives happily ever after...;)**
 
Sorry Photo...explain the MC2 verse, Newuniverse, Ultimate Universe, Nextwave, etc etc etc.

Marvel is crappy with their continuity and multiverses these days. Hell, the Exiles is ALL ABOUT multiverses.

DON'T get me wrong, I love multiverse theory and stories, I just hate horrifyingly awful continuity, which Marvel is FAR worse at than DC these days. I would have said the opposite 10 years ago. I WISH Marvel would use their multiverse to tell stories like the garbage they've been feeding down our throats with their big titles these days.
 
Sorry Photo...explain the MC2 verse, Newuniverse, Ultimate Universe, Nextwave, etc etc etc.

Marvel is crappy with their continuity and multiverses these days. Hell, the Exiles is ALL ABOUT multiverses.

DON'T get me wrong, I love multiverse theory and stories, I just hate horrifyingly awful continuity, which Marvel is FAR worse at than DC these days. I would have said the opposite 10 years ago. I WISH Marvel would use their multiverse to tell stories like the garbage they've been feeding down our throats with their big titles these days.

well, that's your opinion. i obviously disagree, but thanks for stating it without getting ****ty like LittleWilly.

anyway, my whole point was basically this:

with spider-man, x-men, avengers, dr. strange, daredevil, captain america, iron man, hulk, thor and the ff (among others), there is ONE universe. the 616 universe. always has been, always will be. now, there have been stories that go outside this universe. and that's fine.

but there are no earth-2 spider-mans or hulks. no crossing over from universe to universe. FOR THE MOST PART. there are exceptions which some people have loved to point out.

and when it comes down to it, i prefer one superhero. one superman, over like 3 existing at the same time.

like how there's really no "official world" in the dc universe, while 616 is considered the main, canon universe. i prefer one canon universe.

that's it. it's just my preference.

i don't know why it's so hard for some people to not take that personally.

now you can go back to saying how there are so many multi-verses in the marvel universe.
 
I think it's kind of cool to see three different Supermen all existing at once, but then I LOVE multiversal theory. I could talk about it for hours.

And technically, Earth 1 is the primary DC verse, FYI.
 
I think it's kind of cool to see three different Supermen all existing at once, but then I LOVE multiversal theory. I could talk about it for hours.

And technically, Earth 1 is the primary DC verse, FYI.

i'm the other way around.

earth-1 is the main one? what about earth-2? that's the one with all the golden and silver age stories, isn't it?
 
I think it's kind of cool to see three different Supermen all existing at once, but then I LOVE multiversal theory. I could talk about it for hours.

And technically, Earth 1 is the primary DC verse, FYI.

Really? What do you believe a multiverse to follow?
 
The primary canon universe is obviously the one that nearly every single DC comic takes place in, because nearly every single DC comic takes place in that universe. Is this supposedly to be complicated?...I'm honestly curious. Call it Earth-1, or New Earth, or the DCU, or what have you...it's the one that matters. You never wonder if the MC2 universe is all of a sudden the main universe over 616 just because it exists, why is there a question when it comes to DC? And the golden age stories were enfolded into the history of this current Earth...it's what the original Crisis was for in the first place, and it's been that way for more than twenty years now...the multiverse hasn't even been referred to until the past two years, it's why it came as such a hot topic during Infinite Crisis at all. I'm not trying to be snarky, but this this is exactly why I wonder and ask if you actually know what the multiple Earths are in the first place, with these claims that there's no official universe in DC or something. What the heck? Of course there is!

I don't care much about the multiverse, but it pretty much never factors into the world anyway. And on the rare blue moon that it does, they make sure to make it significant and not slapdash. No one reads Green Arrow or Teen Titans wondering what alternate earths are all of a sudden going to pop up and affect the story; that'd be ridiculous. It's a completely superficial excuse to dislike the DCU, one that doesn't stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever, and yet people -- usually the ones with a heavy Marvel bias, it has to be said -- continue to complain about it.

It'd literally be like me saying, "The Clone Saga is why I hate the Marvel universe."

"But...what? The Clone Saga happened helluva while ago and doesn't affect stories today unless it's very important that it does. You've probably never even read it, have you?"

"Yeah whatever, I just don't like it. It's my opinion."
 
Two things:

1. Why did Marvel solict Civil War #6 as a "New" book?

2. Why the %$#@$% did I buy a copy this week when I already bought one when it first came out?
 
Zemo: Born Better #1, was by far the best book I read all week.
 
Hate to get off topic, but when I read Marvel, let's say Spider-man or captain america or Iron man or the avengers, I can read each one of those books from issue 1 - now with some, but at least managable confusion. With DC it won't work because the Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, JLA of today are not the same ones, of even the same universes as the ones from the begining. That's usually the problem myself and other readers face when we want to get into DC characters.
 
It'd literally be like me saying, "The Clone Saga is why I hate the Marvel universe."

"But...what? The Clone Saga happened helluva while ago and doesn't affect stories today unless it's very important that it does. You've probably never even read it, have you?"

"Yeah whatever, I just don't like it. It's my opinion."

You see your argument was holding up till this point. You can't compare crisis on infinite earths with the clone saga. One was a massive crossover that encompassed every character in the DCU(multiple version of each due top the multiverse), rewrote or simply erased HUGE chunks of history, killed off vast numbers of characters and completely changed the layout and organisation of the DCU.

The clone saga on the other hand only had any real impact on spider-man titles. Yes it was overlong and contrived at times but it simply cannot be compared to an event like crisis.

They are both events that were massively confusing to new readers, but, in the case of crisis this impact was felt across ALL of the DCU's characters. It resulted in HUNDREDS of comics suddenly being declared out of continuity
It resulted in super-girl simply being erased from history. When marvel retcons it'll sort out an arc or two at most. DC on the other hand seemed to take some of their fans and slap them round the face by telling them half the comics they've bought throughout their lives are no longer relevant. That they were a waste of money. You cannot compare this on any level to the clone saga.
 
The primary canon universe is obviously the one that nearly every single DC comic takes place in, because nearly every single DC comic takes place in that universe. Is this supposedly to be complicated?...I'm honestly curious. Call it Earth-1, or New Earth, or the DCU, or what have you...it's the one that matters. You never wonder if the MC2 universe is all of a sudden the main universe over 616 just because it exists, why is there a question when it comes to DC? And the golden age stories were enfolded into the history of this current Earth...it's what the original Crisis was for in the first place, and it's been that way for more than twenty years now...the multiverse hasn't even been referred to until the past two years, it's why it came as such a hot topic during Infinite Crisis at all. I'm not trying to be snarky, but this this is exactly why I wonder and ask if you actually know what the multiple Earths are in the first place, with these claims that there's no official universe in DC or something. What the heck? Of course there is!

why are you even continuing to bring this up? other posters on this board have posted about dc being less reader friendly than marvel, just as other posters have stated that they share your opinion.

i mean, my God, man. let. it. go.

if you love the dcu, and it works for you, than more power to you. you get to enojoy twice the amount of stories that i do. my experience has been different.

my introduction to batman (comic wise) was "year one". loved it. dkr, dksa...loved them. too bad they take place in there own universe, which is not canon.

now you'll say, "you're going to take 3 batman stories out of the thousands that are out there and make a case for batman being confusing??"

yes. these are 3 of the most popular storylines, and they are what a lot of people think of when they think of batman. there are others, to be sure.

that's when i kinda fell out of dc.

i think the problem here is this (read the following slowly, LittleWilly, so you can understand it):

everytime i explain my views on the dcu, you come back to counter it with a comparison to the marvel universe, saying they're alike.

instead of accepting that PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT, and people come away from all kinds of life's experiences with DIFFERENT OUTLOOKS, you would have us believe that the only outlook or viewpoint that's worth a damn is your own.

what you could do, the next time someone talk about an experience (even something as trivial as reading comic books), that differs from your own, you could say, "well, i see what you're saying, but i think otherwise".

instead of "no, you are wrong".

do you see what i'm saying? can i make it any clearer?


and while i'm at it, have you actually read the other posts since this started?

if so you'll see that people agree with you, but do so without coming off like an asshat. people have also posted remarks ABOUT you acting like an asshat. and people have posted comments that in agreement to mine. does that have ANY effect on you??
 
Hate to get off topic, but when I read Marvel, let's say Spider-man or captain america or Iron man or the avengers, I can read each one of those books from issue 1 - now with some, but at least managable confusion. With DC it won't work because the Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, JLA of today are not the same ones, of even the same universes as the ones from the begining. That's usually the problem myself and other readers face when we want to get into DC characters.

Spider-Man hasn't been the same person all the time. Ben Reilly.
Captain America hasn't been the same person all the time. Buncha guys. Alternate ID's for Cap.
Iron Man hasn't.....do you see a pattern here?
Are you seriously using Avengers as an example?:whatever:

Like I said before, geeks like us over-complicate matters by "having to know" everything from the beginning, which is ludicrous. You don't HAVE to, the stories don't require you to do so. I have been through 4 versions of the Legion of Superheroes and I can tell you that you can pick up each version from #1 and it doesn't matter that you didn't read the previous versions.
 
Holy crap,this argument about photojones' bad taste is still going on?Yikes.
 
DC IS less new-reader friendly. When I read Supergirl #12 they had this shocking new Terra introduced in the book. That's great. Who the hell is Terra? DC approaches things like you SHOULD know EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER they ever created, not just the big guys. I myself only know the ones from the cartoons. Anyone else, anythin' else, I'm just scratchin' my head.

However, Marvel's quickly fallin' away on the reader friendly scale, but they still have the recap pages in most books. Other books, don't have that nor the first page in-story recap like the classic ones did. Basically, these days, if ya miss an issue, yer screwed.
 
^I agree, also All-star Superman is so unapproachble as a new reader its insane.
 
Not Jake and Brianwilly

I am prepared to eat crow. Astonishing X-Men #20 was fantastic. I also must applaud Joss for writing Wolverine's powers as they should be, he either didnt get the Guggenheim memo or chose to ignore it, but all good ineed. I am prepared to give this comics a 5/5, 10/10
 
I'm not denying number 2. I've tried that tactic too many times in the past and failed.

But...

My LCS had it with a "NEW" card behind it and it was on the Diamond list here for this week. I'm just dumb enough to fall for tricks like that.

They are "new" in the sense that they are reprints without the e-music ad in which many people said damaged their copy. Hence it is, in very rough terms, a new book :up:
 
i didn't say anything about knowing everything about a character. i'm talking about picking up a book and being able to follow along.

like i said in my original post on this topic, i said that marvel was better at creating jumping on points between arcs. it's true.

I'd have to agree with that. When I returned to comics a couple of years ago I jumped back into titles like ASM, DD, Punisher et al and although I did actually go back and got caught up with the history, I didn't really have to....I may have had a question here or there but for the most part no problems....

...I've only started reading DC the past year and it's been anything but seamless......hell I had to write up a "who's Flash" step chart just to get through....Aquaman totally lost me (to the point I dropped it) and I found myself constantly going to Wikipedia to find out who in blazes Robin or Batman are referencing and don't get me started on JLA

That's not to say I don't enjoy my DC comics, but as it pertains to "jump on" points...Marvel was hands down better from my perspective at least!
 
Spider-Man hasn't been the same person all the time. Ben Reilly.
Captain America hasn't been the same person all the time. Buncha guys. Alternate ID's for Cap.
Iron Man hasn't.....do you see a pattern here?
Are you seriously using Avengers as an example?:whatever:

Like I said before, geeks like us over-complicate matters by "having to know" everything from the beginning, which is ludicrous. You don't HAVE to, the stories don't require you to do so. I have been through 4 versions of the Legion of Superheroes and I can tell you that you can pick up each version from #1 and it doesn't matter that you didn't read the previous versions.
I know peter wasn't the only Spider-man, I know there was more than one cap, and yes I'm using Avengers. My point is that from 1939 - 1986 of the DCU is completely pointless to me and maybe others because Yes, 1939 Superman=Clark Kent and Today Superman=Clark Kent, but they are not the same person in actually.

And comic fans don't have to know about the past, duh, but I WANT to know. I wanna Know how my favorite character started and how they hold up today. I, myself, want to know the history of the characters and comicbooks as a whole. Why do you think I started? You may not know, but it was for research so I could learn how to create my own. I cannot learn, without much trouble, anything about DC's characters the way I can with Marvel because the character they started with is not the same of today.
 
Spider-Man hasn't been the same person all the time. Ben Reilly.
Captain America hasn't been the same person all the time. Buncha guys. Alternate ID's for Cap.
Iron Man hasn't.....do you see a pattern here?
Are you seriously using Avengers as an example?:whatever:

Like I said before, geeks like us over-complicate matters by "having to know" everything from the beginning, which is ludicrous. You don't HAVE to, the stories don't require you to do so. I have been through 4 versions of the Legion of Superheroes and I can tell you that you can pick up each version from #1 and it doesn't matter that you didn't read the previous versions.


Even attempting to know everything is an absolutely foolish and extremely arrogant take on life, not to mention it makes you look like a totally idiot.

Besides, there's been far less versions of DC heros it seems over Marvel ones.

Except recently with the JSA to tell the truth.

Marvel more reader friendly? Not really. If you get a guy interested in the Spider-Man movie to read a comic, he'll probably HATE comics because he doesn't understand what the hell is going on by having a non living black costume. Or wonder why some guy with sticks coming out of his face is shooting electricity at Spider-Man. Or hell, why some guy is going after Spider Man's apparent mystical abilities and why he has stingers now. And that's Spider-Man, Marvel's most recognizable character. Wolverine would probably be worse.

And they'll DEFINITELY be confused by Civil War, and anything tying into it basically.

Marvel is no more reader friendly than DC.
 
Does anybody think that it eems pretty mch inevitable that Exiles and Excalibur will be crossing-over in the near future?

Does anybody else think that Swordsman was a bit out of character compared to how he was before they revamped the Thunderbolts?
 

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