Rise of the Silver Surfer BOX OFFICE Discussion

[highguard]

^^ Well apparently Dragon it is New Regency not Fox that held the daredevil rights so we can't use that as a basis for their actions.

FF is making a decent amount of money. IF Fox feels that they lost 20-30 million on mis-steps they can correct they might well greenlight the third very shortly.

If they are green lighting a spinoff then FF3 has a decent chance for sure.

Now my question is why push the spin-off, I think they may be misjudging the popularity of SS to the general public, (ignoring the experience of the comics again) I think they should do both back to back with some kind of tie in.

Say SS in 2009 and FF3 in 2010.

Without fan support from FF fans I don't really see this working.

Unless they are bringing the film in at 60 million.

Now the perpetual rights situation has me really worried on one hand and relieved on the other. There must be some kind of clause in there about how the film rights are extended. I still don't believe that SS will extend those rights to the FF.

If Avi signed off on that then man Avi really was desperate to get these properties sold.

 

[Kelly]

^^ Well apparently Dragon it is New Regency not Fox that held the daredevil rights so we can't use that as a basis for their actions.

FF is making a decent amount of money. IF Fox feels that they lost 20-30 million on mis-steps they can correct they might well greenlight the third very shortly.

If they are green lighting a spinoff then FF3 has a decent chance for sure.

Now my question is why push the spin-off, I think they may be misjudging the popularity of SS to the general public, (ignoring the experience of the comics again) I think they should do both back to back with some kind of tie in.

Say SS in 2009 and FF3 in 2010.

Without fan support from FF fans I don't really see this working.

Unless they are bringing the film in at 60 million.

Now the perpetual rights situation has me really worried on one hand and relieved on the other. There must be some kind of clause in there about how the film rights are extended. I still don't believe that SS will extend those rights to the FF.

If Avi signed off on that then man Avi really was desperate to get these properties sold.

As far as the extentions.....I have only read the "all movies" whether its 3 or 4 by 2012.....I've not read anything that talks about a movie by 2012 extends Fox's rights.....so I don't know anything about a clause, that clause, if there is a clause....whatever......I know that the 4 primary signed a 3 franchise deal with a 4th option, and Julian signed a 3 movie (any movie) deal with Fox......thats all I've ever read....and that was a loooooooooooong time ago, that I read it....back in late 2004.

 

[highguard]

^^ I read that too.

 

[Carp Man]

This is the greatest thing I've read all year.
All is right with the freakin' world, baby. t:

I'm glad you said it. I didn't want to be accused of rubbing it in. You say it's the best news you've hear all year, that gets a pass. I say it and the whole fricking world is comming to an end. I've got Hunter, GL, and everbody else breathing fire down my neck. t: This is the cross I must bear. t:

 

[highguard]

I should clarify the perpetual rights sentiment as I reread my own post and thought I must be crazy, but my thoughts were that Fox has to give us a FF3 if that is the only way they can keep the rights, however if SS did extend some perpetual rights deal we could never see another FF film.

This would be a crazy situation.

I think that the 3/4 picture deal must be the contract, if Avi did some perpetual rights deal thing that would be crazy, however even as I write this I realize that that must be what Sony has or Marvel would surely take back the Spiderman rights.

I have a bad feeling Albafan.

 

[Dragon]

^^ Well apparently Dragon it is New Regency not Fox that held the daredevil rights so we can't use that as a basis for their actions.

Fox as distributor could have easily fast-tracked a DD sequel, just as the did with Elektra. New Regency sure as hell wouldn't have said no, they'd make money regardless.

FF is making a decent amount of money.

Not having made its production budget, let alone P & A budget domestically isn't decent money. It isn't even breaking even.

IF Fox feels that they lost 20-30 million on mis-steps they can correct they might well greenlight the third very shortly.

We're talking about HOLLYWOOD. The place with no original ideas. What movie that's flopped has been given so generous a ressurection? Again, the only reason The Hulk is being resusitated is because Marvel, not Universal believes in the character.

 

[Kelly]

I should clarify the perpetual rights sentiment as I reread my own post and thought I must be crazy, but my thoughts were that Fox has to give us a FF3 if that is the only way they can keep the rights, however if SS did extend some perpetual rights deal we could never see another FF film.

This would be a crazy situation.

I think that the 3/4 picture deal must be the contract, if Avi did some perpetual rights deal thing that would be crazy, however even as I write this I realize that that must be what Sony has or Marvel would surely take back the Spiderman rights.

I have a bad feeling Albafan.

Don't take anything I'm saying as "I think there will be a sequel"....as I've stated before.......I DON'T think there will be a sequel....I don't even think there will be a redo from Marvel.....to be totally honest.

 

[Carp Man]

I don't care about who has what rights, and for how long. I want movies. That's all the fan is interested in. t: Box office is for bean counters, and rights is for lawyers. The fan wants SM4, FF 3, Silver Surfer, Iron Man, and whatever other franchise they come up with.

 

[GL's Light]

I think that the 3/4 picture deal must be the contract, if Avi did some perpetual rights deal thing that would be crazy, however even as I write this I realize that that must be what Sony has or Marvel would surely take back the Spiderman rights.

Replenishing rights deals are the norm, not the exception. It would actually be very unusual to have a deal where the studio loses film rights at a given date no matter what. The way these deals are normally structured is that the rights replenish every time they're exercised by making a further film. The studio will have a contractual period by which time they must have released another sequel or spinoff, usually three or four years, or else they lose the rights. They can keep the rights in perpetuity, but only if they continue making films within that franchise within the specified time limits.

So if Fox released a Silver Surfer film in 2009 and that replenished and extended its FF film rights, they would then have to make FF 3 by, probably, 2013 or lose the film rights to Marvel.

 

[highguard]

^^ but then if SS does well they can keep doing those instead of FF films which could possibly kill the Fantastic Four, that would be a crazy situation and the lawyers and Marvel certainly would have something to say about that. Marvel sued Sony for a change in profit participation after the huge success of those films.

Sony relented because in essence I am sure that Marvel if they pushed this issue in court could argue that the original deals struck by an executive or even a board was injurious to the long term positioning of their company.

Now because there is so much money involved and Sony is best positioned to do a Spiderman film with production and Marketing going well over 300 million I could see how both sides would be more amenable to agreement.

However FF can be produced for like 200 million including production costs.

With the 500 fund Marvel has I am sure they would seriously litigate a situation where the FF franchise died as a result of a Silver Surfer franchise.

Which is why I said if the perpetual deal thing is true then Fox would actually be under pressure from marvel to do an FF movie.

And the use of the SS to extend the rights to an FF franchise would have to be something that was negotiated at some point in time.

Tim himself said that he was delighted when he heard that he could use him.

That usage has to be a matter of agreement separate from the deal that rules the individual projects because my understanding was that the two projects were greenlighted based on the fact that Fox felt the Xmen project was successful, but they are separate projects.

Saying the SS extends the FF series would almost be the same as saying that a wolverine film extends the FF franchise. I highly doubt that it is so cut and dry.

Man I wish we had a studio guy that could show us the contracts. Are these contracts a matter of public record?

I feel suddenly lawyerish, lol.

 

[Carp Man]

Thursdays #'s are in :

FF 2 :

Domestic: $130,004,088 54.2%+ Foreign: $109,832,177 45.8%= Worldwide: $239,836,265

TSM :

Domestic: $102,949,705 48.9%+ Foreign: $107,719,942 51.1%= Worldwide: $210,669,647

TF's :

Domestic: $290,357,856 53.8%+ Foreign: $249,468,071 46.2%= Worldwide: $539,825,927

HP :

Domestic: $251,505,177 35.6%+ Foreign: $454,000,000 64.4%= Worldwide: $705,505,177

 

[Kelly]

Tim himself said that he was delighted when he heard that he could use him.

that was originally the marvel property he wanted to bring to the big screen....as a director.

 

[Bishop2]

Thursdays #'s are in :

FF 2 :

Domestic: $130,004,088 54.2%+ Foreign: $109,832,177 45.8%= Worldwide: $239,836,265

TSM :

Domestic: $102,949,705 48.9%+ Foreign: $107,719,942 51.1%= Worldwide: $210,669,647

TF's :

Domestic: $290,357,856 53.8%+ Foreign: $249,468,071 46.2%= Worldwide: $539,825,927

HP :

Domestic: $251,505,177 35.6%+ Foreign: $454,000,000 64.4%= Worldwide: $705,505,177

We finally crossed the magical mark that makes a film "successful" in the eyes of most studio types. We crossed the production budget price in domestic gross. Now we just need to prove we can do more than that... but I doubt we'll get the opportunity.

 

[Kelly]

We finally crossed the magical mark that makes a film "successful" in the eyes of most studio types. We crossed the production budget price in domestic gross. Now we just need to prove we can do more than that... but I doubt we'll get the opportunity.

It's out of the money theatres now......if it does, we won't see it on the total....

 

[highguard]

Thursdays #'s are in :

FF 2 :

Domestic: $130,004,088 54.2%+ Foreign: $109,832,177 45.8%= Worldwide: $239,836,265

......

Ah the sweet smell of success. We have broken even, I will take it. We are officially not a flop. Hurray.

We must have more movies.

A movie that can bring in 130 million has a shot. The hulk made that money but they cost more so FF is in a better position and it will make more overseas as well.

60 million to 300, possible.

Sequel, possible.

 

[Kelly]

$285 mil tops WW IMO...

 

[highguard]

^^ You are probably right.

 

[Advanced Dark]

Thursdays #'s are in :

FF 2 :

Domestic: $130,004,088 54.2%+ Foreign: $109,832,177 45.8%= Worldwide: $239,836,265

TSM :

Domestic: $102,949,705 48.9%+ Foreign: $107,719,942 51.1%= Worldwide: $210,669,647

TF's :

Domestic: $290,357,856 53.8%+ Foreign: $249,468,071 46.2%= Worldwide: $539,825,927

HP :

Domestic: $251,505,177 35.6%+ Foreign: $454,000,000 64.4%= Worldwide: $705,505,177

Just squeaked by. We'll make more international so that's good and the DVD should sell well as the word of mouth on this film was better than the 1st. It just got swallowed up by the competition after week 1.

 

[Maestro83]

During the Comic-Con Jessica was asked about a third one and she wasn't so sure about it.

Regards,
Maestro

 

[Advanced Dark]

During the Comic-Con Jessica was asked about a third one and she wasn't so sure about it.

Regards,
Maestro

She'll be sure of it when the studio feels like telling her.

 

[Inhuman63]

Maybe someone can explain this too me in regards to Fox and the FF franchise. Based on my understanding, limited as it is, Fox already had brought the rights to make a Silver Surfer movie. This had nothing to do with the FF as the SS originally was not going to be introduced in the FF. Tim stated that he pleaded with the Fox executives to use the Silver Surfer since they already had the rights to that character. I don't understand then, how a Silver Surfer movie would extend Fox the rights to the FF if another FF is not made within the specified 4 years. The FF and the SS were two totally distinct agreements that Marvel had with Fox, so even though they had the permission to utilize the SS, since they currently have the rights, his appearance in FF2 should not have any effect on the deal Fox made with Marvel in regards to him and his stand alone movie should not have any effect on the FF franchise. If someone can help me to understand this, please do so. Thanks.

 

[Advanced Dark]

Maybe someone can explain this too me in regards to Fox and the FF franchise. Based on my understanding, limited as it is, Fox already had brought the rights to make a Silver Surfer movie. This had nothing to do with the FF as the SS originally was not going to be introduced in the FF. Tim stated that he pleaded with the Fox executives to use the Silver Surfer since they already had the rights to that character. I don't understand then, how a Silver Surfer movie would extend Fox the rights to the FF if another FF is not made within the specified 4 years. The FF and the SS were two totally distinct agreements that Marvel had with Fox, so even though they had the permission to utilize the SS, since they currently have the rights, his appearance in FF2 should not have any effect on the deal Fox made with Marvel in regards to him and his stand alone movie should not have any effect on the FF franchise. If someone can help me to understand this, please do so. Thanks.

I already answered this. It doesnt' matter what order the films are made they are all part of the same family of rights.

 

[highguard]

I already answered this. It doesnt' matter what order the films are made they are all part of the same family of rights.

I think AD that you may not have the full picture, this family of rights does not sound plausible.

Perhaps you can ask Tim Story.

And by the way what question did you ask Tim and what was his response.

 

[Advanced Dark]

I think AD that you may not have the full picture, this family of rights does not sound plausible.

Perhaps you can ask Tim Story.

And by the way what question did you ask Tim and what was his response.

Well the person who told me it's fact works at Marvel and is a name you know. I won't say more than that. It wasn't much of a question more of my suggestion to him to get Fantastic Four 3 out of the Summer and into the Holidays like the first film was supposed to be. He didn't really respond with a direct answer to that he just said a few things and thanked me. I didn't ask permission to quote him so I won't. Back to the rights issue. The studios don't just get the major characters but all the characters known to be associated with them (not including major team ups). Marvel held back Venom from Sony in the beginning and those rights were separate...that made no sense so they probably worked out a deal. Fox got the X-Men and all the major characters and villains. So they can spin-off several films to extend the rights. It's a bundle of rights....though of course it makes more sense to make films out of the main characters...if Fox can milk it and make a 150 million dollar Dr. Doom movie...they can do that to extend the rights. They could also make a Toad film to extend the rights but it'd lose all sorts of money and be stupid so that's why you won't see that. Fox has had the Surfer rights bundled with the FF since day one. I can also prove that very easily. The right to make these films are only for 3-4 years. Fox has been talking about a Silver Surfer film since before the first FF film came out. As long as Fox keeps making Fantastic Four films...it extends the Surfer rights and vice versa. That's why the SS rights are still with Fox after 5 years.

BTW Alba is talking FF3 again:

http://groups.myspace.com/themarvelmoviegroup

Source: MTV


Apparently, while we're all wanting to see Galactus kick some fantastic ass, all Jessica Alba is interested in seeing her character up against is - wait for it - motherhood. Maybe being a guy I just don't understand how scary that is. Anyway, talking to MTV, Alba told the dudes over there that in the next flick, “[I’d like to see] little Franklin running around,”

I guess it's not that bad an idea, especially when - as MTV put it - the son of Mr. Fantastic and the Invisible Woman, Franklin Richards is one of the most powerful heroes in the “Marvel” galaxy, an Omega-Level mutant able to manipulate reality itself. Unlike most mutants, Franklin develops his powers early due to the cosmic radiation passed on from his parents.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. Galactus or Franklin Richards? Or maybe someone else?

 

[Carp Man]

August 03, 2007

FINAL WEEKEND TRACKING: 'Bourne' w/$60M+; 'Simpsons' will finish #2, but down at least 55%; 'Hot Rod' and 'Underdog' to battle for 5th; 'Bratz' to crash and burn

by Steve Mason

There’s no doubt that The Bourne Ultimatum (Universal) will easily win this weekend at the box office. The real question is how much over $50M can the 3rd in the Jason Bourne trilogy climb.

2002’s Bourne Identity, starring Matt Damon and directed by Doug Liman (who opted to helm Mr. & Mrs. Smith instead of a Bourne sequel), opened with a very solid $27.1M en route to a $121.6M domestic haul. Bloody Sunday director Paul Greengrass stepped in for 2004’s Bourne Supremacy, and his frenetically-charged style transformed the franchise into a phenomenon. Supremacy grabbed $52.5M in its opening frame and finished at $176.2M in the US. Now Greengrass, fresh from his Oscar nomination for last year’s United 93, returns with Damon for what will purportedly be the final Bourne movie.

The reviews for The Bourne Ultimatum are spectacular. The spy thriller has an amazing 92% Fresh rating at Rotten Tomatoes and MetaCritic has it at 83% Positive. This is a perfect marriage of director and actor. Greengrass is one of the best directors working today. Look at the performance of his last 3 films:

2006 - United 93 - $11.4M opening ($31.4M cume)
91% Fresh at Rotten Tomatoes
90% Positive at MetaCritic
2004 – The Bourne Supremacy - $52.5M opening ($176.2M cume)
82% Fresh at Rotten Tomatoes
73% Positive at MetaCritic
2002 - Bloody Sunday - $29,000 opening ($773,000 cume)
92% Fresh at Rotten Tomatoes
90% Positive at MetaCritic

Here are my final predictions for this weekend, August 3-5:
1. The Bourne Ultimatum (Universal) - $62M
2. The Simpsons Movie (Fox) - $31M
3. I Now Pronounce You Chuck & Larry (Universal) - $10.5M
4. Harry Potter & the Order of the Phoenix (Warner Bros) - $10.2M
5. Hairspray - $9.5M
6. Hot Rod (Paramount) - $8.5M
7. Underdog (Buena Vista) - $7.5M
8. No Reservtions - $6.75M
9. Transformers (Dreamworks/Paramount) - $6.5M
10. Ratatouille - $5M

http://news.fantasymoguls.com/originalcontent/2007/08/final-weekend-t.html