Box Office Reasoning For Begins, and Prediction for Sequal (PLEASE READ)

Discussion in 'Batman Begins' started by Robin91939, Jul 4, 2005.

  1. Robin91939

    Robin91939 Master Tim

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    Yes, I know that it is early, yet Batman II promises to make more money than any Batman Film.

    Let's crunch some numbers shall we?


    BATMAN:----------Nationwide---$251,188,924---Worldwide---$413,200,000
    BATMAN RETURNS: Nationwide---$162,831,698---Worldwide---$282,800,000
    BATMAN FOREVER: Nationwide---$184,031,112---Worldwide---$335,000,000
    BATMAN & ROBIN: Nationwide---$107,285,004---Worldwide---$237,200,000
    BATMAN BEGINS*: Nationwide---$154,146,000---Worldwide---$268,100,000

    *note, all BATMAN BEGINS numbers are growing.

    Well, BATMAN BEGINS was the first Batman film in eight years, correct? Yes, and BATMAN BEGINS, centered entirely around the title character, for once. Yet, it has not appealed to the wide audience that we had hoped for it to have had. Also, its box office numbers, while solid, are not terrific. The movie is enjoying critical success, and is taking a great path through word of mouth. It is being endorsed as the "film of the year" by many of the top critics.

    There are many excuses as to why the film isn't enjoying such lucrative success such as the Spider-man franchise. Let’s face it, very few movies can compete with these numbers:


    SPIDER-MAN: Nationwide---$403,706,375---Worldwide---$806,700,000
    SPIDER-MAN 2:Nationwide---$373,377,893---Worldwide---$783,577,893

    SPIDER-MAN is the number six highest grossing movie off all time in the United States as well as the twelfth highest grossing film worldwide. SPIDER-MAN 2 is the eighth highest grossing film in the states and the fifteenth highest worldwide. These numbers are damn near impossible to compete with.

    Yes, the excuses have been given as to why BATMAN BEGINS should have put up numbers like SPIDER-MAN and SPIDER-MAN 2. “Batman is DC’s premiere property”, “he is an icon”, “It’s a great film”, “terrific cast”, “IT’S BATMAN!”. There are tons of excuses and yet there are explanations as to why it didn’t do as well.

    The Spider-man films had villains such as Green Goblin and Doctor Octopus. These are very marketable villains, and Doctor Octopus is a very iconic villain, almost as much as the Joker. These villains were very marketable and really great attention grabbers for fans and non-fans alike.

    BATMAN BEGINS, did not have the marketable villains that Spider-man’s franchise has had. Ra’s Al Ghul, Carmine Falcone, and Scarecrow are not names that the public is familiar with, and that is a good thing. This allowed the fist film to build a foundation for future movies on the premise that it is Batman’s franchise. These, while being solid villains, some of the best in Batman’s rouge’s gallery they are not visually interesting (with the exclusion of Scarecrow).

    Then there is the fact that Batman had FOUR, other onscreen interpretations in the last sixteen years. Spider-man had NEVER had an onscreen adaptation. All Marvel fans had had onscreen (that were successful) were BLADE(1999) and X-MEN (2000).

    Say what you will about FANTASTIC FOUR being the “flagship” of Marvel, Spider-man is the most iconic Marvel character, bar none.

    It wasn't a matter of year, but fans’ entire lives that they had been waiting for this Spider-man film. This site (formerly the “SpidermanHype!”) is proof of the anticipation.

    Batman fans before BATMAN BEGINS, had four other films, serials, an amazing Animated Series, and a campy 60’s show and film. Batman fans had had their fill, and the non-fans had seen “Bat-mania” several times before.

    Then there is the final reason, the ghost. The ghost of a franchise that disappointed on many levels. While some say BATMAN was a great film, I disagree; it was a fine attempt to depict Batman. It did its job and served its purpose to get the ball rolling, it was a solid onscreen adaptation, it had a marketable villain, but that was also the downfall. The villain became the movie.

    With the second film, some say it was a great artistic approach, which it was. Yet, it was not Batman. This film, BATMAN RETURNS began the death of the franchise, great villains, wasted. Characters swallowed by their gimmicks. Cries from soccer mom’s that said it didn’t deserve a PG-13 rating.

    The movie was then toned down in the third installment and became the second highest grossing film in the franchise, and was critically acclaimed as the revival of the franchise. Had it not been over hashed by the WB, Schumaker may have delivered the best Batman film of its time.

    Angry with the executives decisions Schumaker saw the over editing as a slap in the face to his artistic “vision” therefore he slapped Batman in the face. He slapped us all with BATMAN & ROBIN. This was the death of the revival. It was also the death of the franchise.

    For eight long years, fans have waited for the film of their lives, while non-fans made Batman the butt of every holy joke. Nipples, campiness, and everything in-between.

    Then came BATMAN BEGINS, a dark tale of the beginnings of the Dark Knight.

    Yet, some people were “tired” of seeing Batman, and then there is the fact that the fact that the Box office is in a HUGE slump anyway.

    More people are concerned with their “DVD collections”. As Jett posted, once the DVD comes out it will make a lot more money. Also, it will be more accessible, and the wider audience will watch it “on their own time” making it more convenient for them to see BATMAN BEGINS for the first time.

    Once they see the end of the film, and see what is to come, they will undoubtedly be excited to see the follow-up. Also, with the quality of filmmaking and the story of the film, it will get people’s attention.

    This takes us to the title of the thread. With all of the positive buzz around the first film, and with the fact that people are going to realize that this is a restart, it will make even more buzz for the follow up film.

    This film will also sport the most marketable and popular villain of all time. Plus the strong possibility a big time star, and great actor playing the role. BATMAN CONTINUES (which I guess for now is the “unofficial title”) promises to be the biggest Batman film yet.

    With factors like the villain, the actors, and the first films success, critically, and praise from the fans and non fans alike, will lead to a new fan base: of the movies.


    (NOTE: I did not argue at all that BATMAN BEGINS is better than either of the Spider-man films, or worse. I just compared the financial numbers of the films. I actually stake the claim that the next Batman film has the potential to post numbers in the same area code as the Spider-man films.)

    For those of you that have taken the time to read all of this, thanks.

    -R
     
  2. Robin91939

    Robin91939 Master Tim

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    ::EDIT::

    -R
     
  3. BatMatt

    BatMatt Registered

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    Oh yeah Begins 2 will definitely do better, the memories of Batman and Robin will be 100% erased from peoples memories and the Joker is a natural draw
     
  4. JLBats

    JLBats The boney king of nowhere

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    Nipples killed it. Usually they make things so much better... :(

    To anyone with nipples who was offended by this post, I'm very sorry. It was not intended to offend.
     
  5. Equinox

    Equinox Nerazzurri

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    Nice thread:up:
     
  6. Excel

    Excel O-bama-ama-ama-ay-ay

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    dont forget-sequels arethe only films that seem ot open huge now, and a good sequels, well their in the 350 million+ zone.
     
  7. DA Harvey Dent

    DA Harvey Dent Registered

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    Nice post robin.
     
  8. Robin91939

    Robin91939 Master Tim

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    Thanks, I think that we fans just need to have a little more confidence in the franchise.

    We all know that the movie was fantastic, and everyone that has seen it (that I know) has loved it. Yet, the box office hasn't rivaled movies like "Revenge of the Sith", "Spider-man", and we even opened slower than "Longest Yard". This was due to the reasons I stated above.

    I think that WB execs need to chill too, expecially with these rumors of a smaller budget. Like Bruce Wayne, they don't realize the "monster" that they have created. Batman has infact begun again, and if they keep the same cast and crew the next two installments will be huge movies, critically and financially. The best Batman story have still yet to be told.

    Begins was an amazing movie and the villains worked amazingly, but just imagine: Joker and Two-face, done right......those movies will put asses in seats.

    -R
     
  9. Seen

    Seen It's Been Seen

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    Fantastic post, Robin. I agree on all counts. I just hope it won't be called BATMAN CONTINUES. Although it is growing on me.

    But I doubt we'll get a big name star for The Joker. Really, I don't want one, since that stigma has never worked in the past. Either get an unknown like Lachy Hulme or a quality actor like Liam Neeson. But yes, a reinvention of cinema's top villains will bring huge anticipation to the sequel, plus if he's done right, and the quality of BEGINS on top of it all...I seriously cannot wait to see it all unfold...

    Does 2008 have to be so far away?
     
  10. Ocelot

    Ocelot Registered

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    I hear all that crap about the nipples on the costume that made the Schumacher movies so horrible, but thats not what ruined it for me when I saw them. And I honestly dont think its the nipples that bothered everyone else besides the Batfans so much, more being that the movies just weren't what they were looking for in a Batman movie.
     
  11. Ocelot

    Ocelot Registered

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    Nicholson didnt work for Joker in Batman?
     
  12. Seen

    Seen It's Been Seen

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    He worked for Nicholson in BATMAN. ;)
     
  13. Robin91939

    Robin91939 Master Tim

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    Read my orignal post, Nicolson took over that movie. Due to his star power.


    Seen, I didn't mean a big name, as in the "current guy" or the "big name" per se, but as in a "Sean Penn" callibure actor, someone that will gain the "serious" moviegoers attention, if BATMAN BEGINS, and the rest of the cast hadn't already. Just a respectable, talented actor, ala Liam Neeson as the villain in BATMAN BEGINS.

    -R
     
  14. Seen

    Seen It's Been Seen

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    Agreed about Nicholson. And yeah, I'd like to see an unknown or a Neeson type actor tackle Joker. That'd be sweet.
     
  15. Batty for Bats!

    Batty for Bats! Registered

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    Well, it will definently put my ass in a seat, that much is 100%.
    Also agree, damn good thread. This lowering the budget thing certainly has gotten me worring about the greatest Batman franchise there possibly ever will be.
     
  16. Batty for Bats!

    Batty for Bats! Registered

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    Ala... Hulme :joker::eek::p:up:
     
  17. user123456789

    user123456789 Registered

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    Your Welcome, and awesome post. I hope your prediction about the sequel is right. At this point I don't care how much money it makes, than how good it will be.
     
  18. Shedhut

    Shedhut Registered

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    *Comment of the day* [​IMG]

    Good essay Robin :up:
     
  19. Robin91939

    Robin91939 Master Tim

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    It could have been longer, but then NOBODY, would have read it. :up:

    -R
     
  20. AshtonFoster

    AshtonFoster Registered

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    With Batman vs Joker (lets face it....easily the most famous hero vs villian concept), and the possible inclusion of Two-Face, the next Batman has the possibilty of being an even better film, and pulling out more Spidey like BO numbers...Though with the film's natural darkness (thank god), will never hit those numbers.
     
  21. Catman

    Catman Registered

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    The reason this film isn't making as much money as it should is because it doesn't appeal to kids. That's where the money is. In the Roger Ebert thread I made a week or so ago we discussed this. Someone send Ebert a scary poll which states that most adults rather watch a DVD then go to the theater. Which means that the majority of moviegoers are kids and teenagers. This film doesn't really appeal to that age group.

    I think that if WB and Nolan want to continue making adult-oriented Batman films they shouldn't spend so much money. $70 or 80 million is all we need for a good Batman film. We don't need a monorail exploding or a car chase in top of buildings to make a Batman film good.
     
  22. Seen

    Seen It's Been Seen

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    It means that there aren't enough good films out, simply put. Movies that haven't been marketed to kids have done well, like the LORD OF THE RINGS films. Try getting a kid to sit through one of those.

    And the poll said adults, not teenagers. Adults want to stay home (and they perfer comedies, according to Headline News) and watch 'em on DVD because the hassle of going to see it on a theater screen isn't enough...probably because nine times out of ten movies tend to suck.

    It's why ticket sales are steadily decreasing. Originality and freshness in movies are gone. Instead of remaking old concepts, continuing new ideas that begin to fade out, or doing both, howabout start by letting writers and filmmakers conjure innovative ideas that don't resolve around costumes or aliens.

    Where's THE ENGLISH PATIENT, or SCHIENDLER'S LIST? A good movie doesn't have to include special effects or action sequences to be considered worthy. People want proper characterization and plot. Simple as that.
     
  23. Catman

    Catman Registered

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    Um, LOTR appealed to teenagers. That's why it made money. Yes, I agree that Hollywood has completely gone bonkers, but why does a movie like War of the Worlds make more money than Batman Begins? Because Begins is a more adult-oriented film, while War is a disaster film with big explosions that teenagers enjoy. All I said was that WB and Nolan shouldn't spend so much money on these films if they are making them for adults. Look at Robert Rodriguez. Did he spend so much money on Sin City?
     
  24. Weadazoid

    Weadazoid Registered

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    I have been pushing for Penn to take the Joker role in the sequals department for while now.

    Why it isn't so much that I think he looks like the perfect Joker it is that I really want to see him opposite Bale, I think these two would have alot of chemistry on film, and that chemistry would play out well in helping people realize... wow this isn't Jack Overacting and stealing Batmans Girl, this is the Joker.
     
  25. Seen

    Seen It's Been Seen

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    And BB didn't appeal to teenagers? I'm roughly a teenager (if you count 20 as being a teenager) and all of my friends saw it and loved it. And I saw many younger kids going to see it, and even some adolescents. Although I don't know how teens saw LOTR...I was around 16 when the first one came out in '01, and I didn't see it, and neither did any of my friends. Same goes for the second and third.
     

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