Brett Ratner saved the X-Men franchise?

[Fresh Prince]

I felt they focused all 3 films too much on Wolverine....Especially X-Men 3.

 

[Mad Ones]

It's pretty obvious that the Phoenix personality emerged in its full, destructive form in the battle with Xavier. After that, everything changed. Jean managed to call out to Wolverine later, but that was about it. The Phoenix was silent, unpredictable, unfriendly, she just wanted to do exactly as she pleased, much like the young Jean as a child. The death of Xavier severed all ties to the X-Men, it was a point of no return.

That's lazy. It's not like I misunderstood what they were going for, I got that she was meant to be unpredictable so having her not speak like some troubled loner was the way they went for it. I just feel it was really lacking in creativity and uninspired. And in the comics, Jean never lost herself completely and it was an ongoing battle within herself until Jean ultimately won and sacrificed herself (which was much more compelling than Wolverine being super awesome omg), so for those arguing that it was a faithful adaptation... it really wasn't (I'm not sure if that was an argument in this thread or not lol).

You're arguing that they achieved what they set out to do, and I guess you're right in this particular context. But I can't agree that it was the right direction, because I feel that it was a huge misstep.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I felt they focused all 3 films too much on Wolverine....Especially X-Men 3.

I disagree, I thought X2 beat out X3 in that department.

 

[Mad Ones]

I guess you could say that because of all the focus on him discovering parts of his origins. But at least he wasn't the one to save the day and the leader of the X-men in that one.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Eh, people on Hype always let X-Men and X2 off the hook when it comes to the Wolverine problem. As a matter of fact they do it regarding any problems in the first two X-films.

Oh well, everyone is intitled to their opinions.

 

[Gilpesh]

They let X-Men off the hook because there's that great scene where you realize that Magneto wants Rogue and not Wolverine. "Not everything is about you, you know." And the fact that at the end, sure Wolverine destroyed the machine, but all the x-men worked together to get him up there AND Cyclops is the one that knocked out Magneto.

And some people didn't let X2 off the hook, but seeing as the threat came from Wolverine's past in the form of Striker made the focus a little understandable. But they still complained about how Cyclops was treated and lost screentime. But (yet again) X2 had a lot of character moments for other characters that stick out a lot more than the focus on Wolverine. (Iceman's parents, Jean Grey saving the day, Nightcrawler's attack on the White House, Magneto's escape from his cell, Xavier's pause button effect on the world, etc)

And in X3, Wolverine is of course, Jean's one true love, the guy that runs off to Magneto's camp, he's the one that needs to learn about teamwork (not the actual team), then he's of course the leader in the finale battle, and to top everything off... he's the only one that can stop Jean and save the day.

The first two may have had more Wolverine than they should, but X3 turned it into an art form of making him the only one that matters.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

People let X-Men and X2 off the hook because they like Singer better than Ratner. It's as simple as that IMHO.

Can you please point out the scene in which it is said or implied that Wolverine is Jean's one true love? because that sounds like over the top anti Ratner hyperbole to me. I also don't remember him be called the team leader.

 

[Mad Ones]

The melodramatic conversation between Wolverine and Storm comes to mind. The one where he admits he loves Jean, to his great anguish. The writers very wisely never wrote any lines where Jean states she loves him. Thank god even they realized how wrong that would be. But Wolverine did take Cyclops' place in the storyline to a large extent, and that was very wrong.

I don't think people give a free pass to the first two. I've seen a lot of criticisms on this board, and there are many things that I have problems with. But there was just so much more in those films to like than there were in the third. In other words, I agree 100% with Gilpesh.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Wolverine has always loved Jean, so... whats the problem again?

The way the studio and Singer treated Cyke in the past I doubt he was going to have a role as big as Wolverine in a Singer helmed X3. I completely disagree that Wolverine took his spot as that would imply that he was going to be the star of the 3rd flick and history tells us that that just wasn't going to happen. The studio and Singer made it perfectly clear who the star of these flicks was. They f**ked over other characters to show us that.

The fact is Ratner followed through on exactly what Fox and Singer set-up. A total Wolverine love fest....featuring the X-Men!

 

[CelticPredator]

X2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>x-3

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

It wasn't that much better to me.

Wolverine is a terrible movie, X3 is just an underwhelming one. Just like the first two X-Men movies.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

They let X-Men off the hook because there's that great scene where you realize that Magneto wants Rogue and not Wolverine. "Not everything is about you, you know." And the fact that at the end, sure Wolverine destroyed the machine, but all the x-men worked together to get him up there AND Cyclops is the one that knocked out Magneto.

And some people didn't let X2 off the hook, but seeing as the threat came from Wolverine's past in the form of Striker made the focus a little understandable. But they still complained about how Cyclops was treated and lost screentime. But (yet again) X2 had a lot of character moments for other characters that stick out a lot more than the focus on Wolverine. (Iceman's parents, Jean Grey saving the day, Nightcrawler's attack on the White House, Magneto's escape from his cell, Xavier's pause button effect on the world, etc)

And in X3, Wolverine is of course, Jean's one true love, the guy that runs off to Magneto's camp, he's the one that needs to learn about teamwork (not the actual team), then he's of course the leader in the finale battle, and to top everything off... he's the only one that can stop Jean and save the day.

The first two may have had more Wolverine than they should, but X3 turned it into an art form of making him the only one that matters.

People let X-Men and X2 off the hook because they like Singer better than Ratner. It's as simple as that IMHO.

Can you please point out the scene in which it is said or implied that Wolverine is Jean's one true love? because that sounds like over the top anti Ratner hyperbole to me. I also don't remember him be called the team leader.

Gilpesh just explained it perfectly for you.

It's you who are the one is making excuses now.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Gilpesh just explained it perfectly for you.

It's you who are the one is making excuses now.

No he didn't.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yes, he did.

He explains the logic behind Wolverine being a focus in the second one, seeing as it is his past that is the danger to all mutants. And also that there is a lot of character moments for other mutants like Bobby. That it wasn't Wolverine who saved the day etc. And in the first X film it was a team effort that saved the day also.

The first film is as much about Rogue as it is Wolverine. And it makes sense that they are more of the focus. The film is from their POV, being introduced to this world of X-Men and their villains.

The focus on Wolverine in X-3 was more blatant and illogical than any of the previous movies. Wolverine and Wolverine alone saving the day. Why? Wolverine and Wolverine alone leading the X-Men. Why? Wolverine and Wolverine alone going to the forest etc

 

[X-Maniac]

But Wolverine was always set up to be the alpha male, and Cyclops the boy who listens to NSync and watches silly cartoons. Sad but true.

 

[returntovoid]

The way the studio and Singer treated Cyke in the past I doubt he was going to have a role as big as Wolverine in a Singer helmed X3.

Here's how Bryan Singer's X3 was supposed to be before leaving to direct Superman Returns and being ditched by Tom Rothman

Bryan Singer, the director of the first two X-Men films, left the project during preproduction in order to direct the film Superman Returns. He was joined by X2 screenwriters Dan Harris and Michael Dougherty and composer / editor John Ottman. Though Singer, Harris and Dougherty had yet to complete a script, the director has revealed that at the time of his departure they had partially completed a story treatment for the film which would have focused exclusively on Jean Grey's resurrection[5] with the new villain Emma Frost, a role intended for Sigourney Weaver.[6] Frost was an empath manipulating Jean's emotions in the treatment, and like the finished film Magneto desires to control her. Overwhelmed by her powers, Jean kills herself, but Jean's spirit survives and becomes a god-like creature, which Dougherty compared to the star child in A Space Odyssey.[7]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Men:_The_Last_Stand

 

[returntovoid]

I felt they focused all 3 films too much on Wolverine....Especially X-Men 3.

To the point that Wolverine was out of character and became the confident boyscout (which is exactly what Cyclops is supposed to be).

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

But Wolverine was always set up to be the alpha male, and Cyclops the boy who listens to NSync and watches silly cartoons. Sad but true.

To the point that Wolverine was out of character and became the confident boyscout (which is exactly what Cyclops is supposed to be).

Exactly. I don't care whose fault it was. Making Wolverine a gorgeous badboy with a heart of gold was a bad idea to this fan because it eventually watered the character down to the point of near unrecogizability. I'm sorry but I don't dig Wolve-Clops as much as I dig Wolverine.

The Wolverine at the first part of the first X-Men movie was the Wolverine I know and love.

Wolverine has lost more and more of his badassness as the series has went along. Strangely enough he was the most tame in X-Men Orgins.

 

[FilmNerdJamie]

There's an interview back around late '03/early '04 where Singer explained how Cyclops would have fit in his X-Men 3. I'm paraphrasing but it was essentially, "With the first film, Logan was the central figure of the story and in the last one, it was Jean at the center. This time around it'll be Scott."

 

[X-Maniac]

Wolverine has lost more and more of his badassness as the series has went along. Strangely enough he was the most tame in X-Men Orgins.

I agree. Despite what Jackman said, he was tamest in Wolverine, probably because they wanted a contrast with Sabretooth and because they were more concerned with making him a pin-up than an animalistic brute.

"I'm the best at what I do, and what I do isn't very nice" he said, and yet he did nothing during the Team X mission at all.

 

[returntovoid]

There's an interview back around late '03/early '04 where Singer explained how Cyclops would have fit in his X-Men 3. I'm paraphrasing but it was essentially, "With the first film, Logan was the central figure of the story and in the last one, it was Jean at the center. This time around it'll be Scott."

Yeah, Singer's X3 was going to give Cyclops more focus.

 

[X-Maniac]

Yeah, Singer's X3 was going to give Cyclops more focus.

Well, that was said to be his intention. But a lot can change between that and a finished movie.

 

[Matt]

They let X-Men off the hook because there's that great scene where you realize that Magneto wants Rogue and not Wolverine. "Not everything is about you, you know." And the fact that at the end, sure Wolverine destroyed the machine, but all the x-men worked together to get him up there AND Cyclops is the one that knocked out Magneto.

And some people didn't let X2 off the hook, but seeing as the threat came from Wolverine's past in the form of Striker made the focus a little understandable. But they still complained about how Cyclops was treated and lost screentime. But (yet again) X2 had a lot of character moments for other characters that stick out a lot more than the focus on Wolverine. (Iceman's parents, Jean Grey saving the day, Nightcrawler's attack on the White House, Magneto's escape from his cell, Xavier's pause button effect on the world, etc)

And in X3, Wolverine is of course, Jean's one true love, the guy that runs off to Magneto's camp, he's the one that needs to learn about teamwork (not the actual team), then he's of course the leader in the finale battle, and to top everything off... he's the only one that can stop Jean and save the day.

The first two may have had more Wolverine than they should, but X3 turned it into an art form of making him the only one that matters.

You can make similiar arguments about X3. Beast is the one who stops Magneto, Collossus provides the distraction, Kitty defeats Juggernaut, etc but in the end, the focus of X1, X2, and X3 are entirely on Wolverine. Sure, supporting characters get little moments to shine in all of them, but that doens't change the fact that Singer made the mistake as Ratner.

 

[BestGirl]

People let X-Men and X2 off the hook because they like Singer better than Ratner. It's as simple as that IMHO.

More than anything, I think it was just that X1 and X2 were better movies than X3. Fanboys will forgive a lot if they're entertained by a flick.

There's an interview back around late '03/early '04 where Singer explained how Cyclops would have fit in his X-Men 3. I'm paraphrasing but it was essentially, "With the first film, Logan was the central figure of the story and in the last one, it was Jean at the center. This time around it'll be Scott."

This news and the underwhelmingness of SR makes me wish Singer had just stuck with the X franchise.

 

[FilmNerdJamie]

Well, that was said to be his intention. But a lot can change between that and a finished movie.

Singer himself said that. Since we'll never know what could and/or would have changed between then, one can only go off of what he promised.