Buffy the Vampire Slayer - 10 years later: the reunion at the Paley Festival

[spideyboy_1111]

Indeed

The way I see it you can't have a story arc relating to a 16 year old fresh faced Buffy pop up 7 years later for season 7. Not a overly large one anyway. They did try to refresh our minds of past episodes in later seasons which was nice.

indeed, and thank god for willow, xander, and anya for there charm. you can't have 7 years of fighting demons and expect nothing bad to happen to the characters and keep the show interesting, there not going to randomly act like nothing happened and negative events cause people to grow up fast... buffy went to college, buffy had to deal with never having a normal life, buffy had to deal with her mothers death and father not wanting her, she had to deal with being a sister, deal with dropping out of college, deal with never being in love, deal with her best friend turning against her.... i mean come on.. those are all epic things, no way could a person not change from all that

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Season 4 bid bad = Adam

Yes that was cool - I loved the idea of Science meets Demon world. But found it odd that Adam did not try to take the magic side more seriously...I know his feelings on the subject "he thinks they are unstable" and he is mostly right but if he factored that in to his plans he may have done better.

that was his flaw... he was to arrogant with his strengths

 

[LexCorp]

that was his flaw... he was to arrogant with his strengths

Yes much like the Mayor.....he was awesome

 

[TheFuture]

the fact cordy spent the last 4-7 episodes in a coma which carried on to season 5 where she died bothered me alot .



the best episodes were indeed the faith/willow ones, loved that.

i thought the "Frankenstein demon" was weak but the episode they attacked the base was cool. as was hush which is the majority of fans favorite episode of all time when shown in polls.

seth leaving did suck, and maybe he did neglect buffy a little bit, which is fine it could stand on its own legs, angel needed more work to establish that world. which would be expected.

Primeval and Hush were indeed the best eps of S4.

The episode of S5 with Cordy was a real killer, wasn't it? I hadn't read any spoilers so I have to say I lost control a bit when I found she was really dead.

You're right about needing to get S1 of Angel up and running. I find S4 much more pleasant though on re-runs for some reasons. It's still ranked pretty low in my list of seasons but it was not as bad as watching it first time around.

 

[LexCorp]

indeed, and thank god for willow, xander, and anya for there charm. you can't have 7 years of fighting demons and expect nothing bad to happen to the characters and keep the show interesting, there not going to randomly act like nothing happened and negative events cause people to grow up fast... buffy went to college, buffy had to deal with never having a normal life, buffy had to deal with her mothers death and father not wanting her, she had to deal with being a sister, deal with dropping out of college, deal with never being in love, deal with her best friend turning against her.... i mean come on.. those are all epic things, no way could a person not change from all that

I love the dream episode in season 1 where we get to see Buffys real dad...

What a jerk off....I know it was her dream but still.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Primeval and Hush were indeed the best eps of S4.

The episode of S5 with Cordy was a real killer, wasn't it? I hadn't read any spoilers so I have to say I lost control a bit when I found she was really dead.

You're right about needing to get S1 of Angel up and running. I find S4 much more pleasant though on re-runs for some reasons. It's still ranked pretty low in my list of seasons but it was not as bad as watching it first time around.

S4 was great in drama and story.. just depressing due to Cordy being all evil.. and the events of 3 ending... its just sad cuz that whole season we had cordy, but never really got her... so Cordy truely only existed in seasons 1-3 of angel

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I love the dream episode in season 1 where we get to see Buffys real dad...

What a jerk off....I know it was her dream but still.

lol ya, u see him in the episode (which was pretty good as well) where buffy is drugged and believes shes in the "real world" where shes in a mental word for thinking she's a slayer of demons

 

[LexCorp]

Primeval and Hush were indeed the best eps of S4.

The episode of S5 with Cordy was a real killer, wasn't it? I hadn't read any spoilers so I have to say I lost control a bit when I found she was really dead.

You're right about needing to get S1 of Angel up and running. I find S4 much more pleasant though on re-runs for some reasons. It's still ranked pretty low in my list of seasons but it was not as bad as watching it first time around.

Angel season 4 for me suffered from the idea of a big build up with little pay off. I mean the beast! What a monster then that was all stripped away to make room for the real big bad.....the goddes lady. Felt like the rug was swept up from my feet a little but am over it now.

 

[zanos]

erm... the comedy was still there.. but ya the tone got more serious. I wouldn't say it lost its direction at all.. just evolved. Which is what whedon likes to do... theres different era's to both buffy and angel. and all the characters grow and change alot. He likes to keep us guessing as well as put his characters in new situation. And im fine with that. i never lost interest in either show. Hell even with angel the season i like the least (4), was very riveting, i just didn't care for connor or the possession of cordy. But was it still good? yes. the season was filled with dark events and issues. And i loved that.

The definition of evolving is what happened between from season 1 to season 3. The fact is it was always the characters and their dynamic which drove the show regardless of the situation. After season 3 the opposite began to happen. They no longer wanted to concentrate on the relationships between the principal characters and instead decided the show should be more serious, plot driven and serialized instead of episodic. The seasonal arcs which usually remained in the background were now at the forefront and the characters were the ones pushed to the background now as was the tongue and cheek humor the show became known for. You'd often see the characters on screen together but the dynamics between them were long gone. Any and all distractions were brought in to disrupt this whether it be Spike, Dawn, the slayer girls, etc. and all it did drag the show down. If you liked it that's fine but to say that there wasn't a major directional change that contributed greatly to it's downfall of BTVS after season 3 is completely inaccurate.

 

[LexCorp]

The definition of evolving is what happened between from season 1 to season 3. The fact is it was always the characters and their dynamic which drove the show regardless of the situation. After season 3 the opposite began to happen. They no longer wanted to concentrate on the relationships between the principal characters and instead decided the show should be more serious, plot driven and serialized instead of episodic. The seasonal arcs which usually remained in the background were now at the forefront and the characters were the ones pushed to the background now as was the tongue and cheek humor the show became known for. You'd often see the characters on screen together but the dynamics between them were long gone. Any and all distractions were brought in to disrupt this whether it be Spike, Dawn, the slayer girls, etc. and all it did drag the show down. If you liked it that's fine but to say that there wasn't a major directional change that contributed greatly to it's downfall of BTVS after season 3 is completely inaccurate.

Ahhh your post is OK at best as it is just opion....

To say there were no real relationships or delevopment between the major characters after season 4 was so dumb dude.

Buffys mom died - biggest development ever! Not only do they continue to change and buil onto what was set up in 3 that by the end of Buffy on TV there was a whole arc of development between the characters.

I mean come one - Xander and Anya - from season 3 continued over untill the end....they are principal characters. There is a ton of development past season 3 anyone who can not see that just does not watch the show.

Ohh and about you saying that the show was no longer serialized instead of episodic after season 3.

Hello! Season 1 of Buffy - she had dreams of the master at the begining of that season and the Master was the main arc that carried over that season right till the end of it. Pretty serialized if you ask me.

 

[TheFuture]

Angel season 4 for me suffered from the idea of a big build up with little pay off. I mean the beast! What a monster then that was all stripped away to make room for the real big bad.....the goddes lady. Felt like the rug was swept up from my feet a little but am over it now.

Yep, and it was just sick the whole Connor/ Cordelia thing. I know she suffered from amnesia but damn it, she changed his dipers! We waited so long to see Angel get his girl and for his son to take her from him was just sickening. For me personally, Cordelia was the most developed character in the Buffyverse and S4 kind of tainted that a little bit.

 

[LexCorp]

Yep, and it was just sick the whole Connor/ Cordelia thing. I know she suffered from amnesia but damn it, she changed his dipers! We waited so long to see Angel get his girl and for his son to take her from him was just sickening. For me personally, Cordelia was the most developed character in the Buffyverse and S4 kind of tainted that a little bit.

Yeah that was a bad choice for the plot.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The definition of evolving is what happened between from season 1 to season 3. The fact is it was always the characters and their dynamic which drove the show regardless of the situation. After season 3 the opposite began to happen. They no longer wanted to concentrate on the relationships between the principal characters and instead decided the show should be more serious, plot driven and serialized instead of episodic. The seasonal arcs which usually remained in the background were now at the forefront and the characters were the ones pushed to the background now as was the tongue and cheek humor the show became known for. You'd often see the characters on screen together but the dynamics between them were long gone. Any and all distractions were brought in to disrupt this whether it be Spike, Dawn, the slayer girls, etc. and all it did drag the show down. If you liked it that's fine but to say that there wasn't a major directional change that contributed greatly to it's downfall of BTVS after season 3 is completely inaccurate.

Buffy didn't have a down fall... if it had such a great downfall as u claim...... it wouldn't have been canceled... UPN was willing to do 2 more seasons. so you didn't like the changes, get over it.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Yep, and it was just sick the whole Connor/ Cordelia thing. I know she suffered from amnesia but damn it, she changed his dipers! We waited so long to see Angel get his girl and for his son to take her from him was just sickening. For me personally, Cordelia was the most developed character in the Buffyverse and S4 kind of tainted that a little bit.

it was very sick to watch, and nothing happened under her amnesia, it was lornes spell that awoken jasmine who was carried over from the powers that be plane while cordy was a goddess, and slowly tried nudging all the events of season 5 to happen since season 1. it possessed her body after the spell and seduced connor in order to get its own body (through birth). Jasmine planned everything from Cordy getting the powers in season 1, to Connor being born, even gunn's sisters death and Wesley sleeping with Lilah.

 

[LexCorp]

Buffy didn't have a down fall... if it had such a great downfall as u claim...... it wouldn't have been canceled... UPN was willing to do 2 more seasons. so you didn't like the changes, get over it.

Exactly - if anything the show got twice as strong as it was when it started.

 

[Matt]

Yep, and it was just sick the whole Connor/ Cordelia thing. I know she suffered from amnesia but damn it, she changed his dipers! We waited so long to see Angel get his girl and for his son to take her from him was just sickening. For me personally, Cordelia was the most developed character in the Buffyverse and S4 kind of tainted that a little bit.

I gotta give that title to Wesley. His felt far more organic. Cordiella's was more like "One day I'm this vain little princess, oh noes! Some visions! Now I am suddenly a saint and a champion!" Wesley's was far more real as you come see it happening as the show went on.

 

[LexCorp]

I gotta give that title to Wesley. His felt far more organic. Cordiella's was more like "One day I'm this vain little princess, oh noes! Some visions! Now I am suddenly a saint and a champion!" Wesley's was far more real as you come see it happening as the show went on.

I agree Wesley went much further than Cordy.

Even if Charisma did do PlayBoy I still have to give my vote to the Wes!

 

[LexCorp]

edit

 

[zanos]

Buffy didn't have a down fall... if it had such a great downfall as u claim...... it wouldn't have been canceled... UPN was willing to do 2 more seasons. so you didn't like the changes, get over it.

The fact that you're not responding to what I've said just tells me you know I'm right. Whether or not UPN still wanted the show on the air has no relevance. They would have done anything to get viewers on that crappy network. The fact is Buffy was done creatively a long time ago.

 

[Matt]

Buffy didn't have a down fall... if it had such a great downfall as u claim...... it wouldn't have been canceled... UPN was willing to do 2 more seasons. so you didn't like the changes, get over it.

Just because the show got strong ratings doesn't mean it didn't have a down fall in quality. Fraiser had a huge downfall after Niles and Daphnee got together but it still maintained strong ratings. Seinfeld went downhill after Larry David stopped writing and producing, still got strong ratings. The list goes on. Buffy DID have a downfall. Seasons 1 through 3 are all great, 2 through 3 being the show's prime. But season 4 was a huge disappointment.

The dynamic changed so much and unfortunately, the new characters they brought in to help with the shift (Riley and Adam) both sucked. Adam was a horrible villain (though I blame it on his lack of development. He had some cool moments like when he killed the little girl, but all in all he was there for two episodes, (the first one with him and then the following episode) and then disappeared until the last episode with him except for brief cameos here and there. Riley was just bland and unlikable.

Season five became great again (but only after Riley left, basically). His entire subplot during season 5 was soooo annoying. "My girlfriend didn't cry to me so I'm gonna go let a vampire feed from me!" It had a good villain, though, and was a strong season, despite initial skepticism about Dawn.

Season 6 took another downward spiral. Evil Willow just didn't do it for me and the entire season was just too dark and depressing. And there is room for story lines like that, but it came at the expense of the charm and humor that makes Buffy, Buffy.

Season 7 was okay I guess. It felt a bit too crowded and like too much was going on. Overall, I was very underwhelmed with The First, too. It just felt weird having a Big Bad who was non-coporeal.

But yeah, the later seasons, while good, definitely suffered from a slump.

 

[Matt]

Also, does anyone else find it odd that after years of snubbing the fandom and this show and acting like it never exisited, Gellar is suddenly trying to jump back on the train now that she has no career options. I said it back during season 7 when she started speaking of the show like she was above it and saying how she wanted out..."This show and the fans saved her from being a soap opera actor for her whole career, but once she sees how untalented she is in comparrison to the rest of Hollywood she will come crawling back." She made a good TV actress, but not much else, and I think it is helluva annoying the way she thinks she can use the nostalgia of the show to jumpstart her failing career.

 

[LexCorp]

Just because the show got strong ratings doesn't mean it didn't have a down fall in quality. Fraiser had a huge downfall after Niles and Daphnee got together but it still maintained strong ratings. Seinfeld went downhill after Larry David stopped writing and producing, still got strong ratings. The list goes on. Buffy DID have a downfall. Seasons 1 through 3 are all great, 2 through 3 being the show's prime. But season 4 was a huge disappointment.

The dynamic changed so much and unfortunately, the new characters they brought in to help with the shift (Riley and Adam) both sucked. Adam was a horrible villain (though I blame it on his lack of development. He had some cool moments like when he killed the little girl, but all in all he was there for two episodes, (the first one with him and then the following episode) and then disappeared until the last episode with him except for brief cameos here and there. Riley was just bland and unlikable.

Season five became great again (but only after Riley left, basically). His entire subplot during season 5 was soooo annoying. "My girlfriend didn't cry to me so I'm gonna go let a vampire feed from me!" It had a good villain, though, and was a strong season, despite initial skepticism about Dawn.

Season 6 took another downward spiral. Evil Willow just didn't do it for me and the entire season was just too dark and depressing. And there is room for story lines like that, but it came at the expense of the charm and humor that makes Buffy, Buffy.

Season 7 was okay I guess. It felt a bit too crowded and like too much was going on. Overall, I was very underwhelmed with The First, too. It just felt weird having a Big Bad who was non-coporeal.

But yeah, the later seasons, while good, definitely suffered from a slump.

A minor slump that was not as bad as people say it was.

I found the later seasons to be more grown up and dealt with issues that someone of Buffys age would be dealing with. Such is life - you grow up and 9 times out of 10 it goes into a slump. But I cut it some slack as I have said before if we had 7 years of 16 year old style Buffy it would suck more.

 

[LexCorp]

Also, does anyone else find it odd that after years of snubbing the fandom and this show and acting like it never exisited, Gellar is suddenly trying to jump back on the train now that she has no career options. I said it back during season 7 when she started speaking of the show like she was above it and saying how she wanted out..."This show and the fans saved her from being a soap opera actor for her whole career, but once she sees how untalented she is in comparrison to the rest of Hollywood she will come crawling back." She made a good TV actress, but not much else, and I think it is helluva annoying the way she thinks she can use the nostalgia of the show to jumpstart her failing career.

Yeah that one is a bit weird. I always assumed she was like David B and moved on to better things?

 

[TheFuture]

I gotta give that title to Wesley. His felt far more organic. Cordiella's was more like "One day I'm this vain little princess, oh noes! Some visions! Now I am suddenly a saint and a champion!" Wesley's was far more real as you come see it happening as the show went on.

I think you're underestimating her change.

Firstly, she was humbled by her fathers fall from grace. When Doyle died he gave her visions she never wanted and it took her awhile to accept them and it eventually culminated in a situation where she was willing to demonise herself to keep those visions. Also, her love for Angel was alot more real than Buffy's. I believe Cordelia saw the man within Angel and fell in love with him. It was a much more mature love.

With Wesley, he made a choice that alienated him from the gang. The darker Wesley was always there(we saw that from his treatment of Faith in S3 Buffy and taking Connor). I genuinely believe nothing was forced on Wesley.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The fact that you're not responding to what I've said just tells me you know I'm right. Whether or not UPN still wanted the show on the air has no relevance. They would have done anything to get viewers on that crappy network. The fact is Buffy was done creatively a long time ago.

erm no... i think your pretty much an idiot for only liking the first 3 seasons and saying there was no development there after.