Buffy the Vampire Slayer - 10 years later: the reunion at the Paley Festival

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm not ignoring anything. If you like something that's fine but you're arguing over the fact that show had no directional changes after season 3 and that's simply and grossly inaccurate.

the show was friggin all about directional changes ur the one who was saying u didn't like the changes

 

[bullets]

I.

Which makes a good segway into this entire argument about whether or not the show was episodic. It was VERY episodic. At least originally. Even with an overlaying plot arc in play, every season, there was always room to breath (with the expection of Season 7). There was always filler episodes and usually at least half (if not more) of the season's episodes did not focus on the overlaying plot arc. The only season that was really non-episodic was Season 7 as the entire season was focused on one, single plot arc and every episode was an advancment of that plot.

Yeah there were some good episodes that didn't focus on the season arc at all . I think some had a little mention of the arc as awell . . It wasn't completely episodic but followed those patterns sometimes especially in season one.
It allowed there to be creativity on the show and produced some of the best episodes:
Hush
The Zeppo
Dopplegangland
Fear Itself
The Body
Hell's bells

 

[Gonzo]

I think Buffy's best years, were from 1-5. It's just me, but the inclusion of Spike changed the dynamic of the show. After season 5, It kinda became the Buffy/Spike show to me and I kinda lost interest in it. Still watched the show, but it wasn't as a great as it used to be. I loved Season 2 Spike, but the whole redemption aspect had been done already with Angel. I personally think Season 2 and 3 were Buffy at it's best.
Still, even a sub-par Buffy season is 10 times better than most of the stuff on tv now.

you forgot Earshot as a standalone.

 

[bullets]

you forgot Earshot as a standalone.

Yeah I had completely forgotten that episode and I am sure there were others .

They were basically trying to recreate the Buffy/Angel dynamic with Spike . The only problem was that it was morbid and weird . I thought what went down in episode six was the culmination of their relationship .
Spike should have went back to being bad .

 

[zanos]

They needed a cheap replacement for Angel after the last cheap replacement (Riley) didn't work. The entire show was about cheap replacements after the first 3 seasons.

 

[ssj wolverine]

They needed a cheap replacement for Angel after the last cheap replacement (Riley) didn't work. The entire show was about cheap replacements after the first 3 seasons.

The first 3 seasons of Buffy I adored but after Angel left and they went to college the show was garbage after that. They had a few great eps like Hush once in a while.

 

[TheFuture]

Yeah there were some good episodes that didn't focus on the season arc at all . I think some had a little mention of the arc as awell . . It wasn't completely episodic but followed those patterns sometimes especially in season one.
It allowed there to be creativity on the show and produced some of the best episodes:
Hush
The Zeppo
Dopplegangland
Fear Itself
The Body
Hell's bells

Arguably Xander's best moment in the show

 

[04nbod]

The first 3 seasons of Buffy I adored but after Angel left and they went to college the show was garbage after that. They had a few great eps like Hush once in a while.

ain't that the truth!

I think Buffy's best years, were from 1-5. It's just me, but the inclusion of Spike changed the dynamic of the show. After season 5, It kinda became the Buffy/Spike show to me and I kinda lost interest in it. Still watched the show, but it wasn't as a great as it used to be. I loved Season 2 Spike, but the whole redemption aspect had been done already with Angel. I personally think Season 2 and 3 were Buffy at it's best.
Still, even a sub-par Buffy season is 10 times better than most of the stuff on tv now.

you forgot Earshot as a standalone.

Earshot is one of my favourites ever.

I was watching season 7 last night and it struck me how good season 7 is until the potentials and andrew show up. After that it gets annoying. I was also thinking that Joss missed out on not having the first face Buffy with the face of Angel as Angelus. Probably due to David's other commitments. Joss said it was a greatest hits year he should have had his greatest villain! Maybe they should have killed off Cordelia earlier in angel and have charisma return as the first in season 7. They said they wanted to go full circle and the only time we see any of cordelia is a little when they flashback to 'bewitched, bothered and bewildered'

 

[The Question]

They were basically trying to recreate the Buffy/Angel dynamic with Spike . The only problem was that it was morbid and weird . I thought what went down in episode six was the culmination of their relationship .
Spike should have went back to being bad .

They weren't trying to recreate the Buffy/Angel dynamic at all. Buffy and Spike's relationship was and still is drastically different. Buffy and Angel were genuinely in love. It was all sweet soap opera-y with Angel being all "I could never give you a normal life/I must always struggle with the monster in me so we cannot be together" and all that. With Buffy and Spike, it was completely one sided. Buffy was just using Spike for some kind of physical comfort in her post resurection slump, while Spike was looking for something more meaningful and was just settling for the sex because it was the closest he could get.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

it also turned into obsession and buffy kinda got the "battered wife syndrome" where they keep coming back for more till she was almost raped

 

[bullets]

Well the whole theme of their relationship was that she was being self destructive. It could never work out and Spike couldn't accept that .That is why I feel Spike should of went back to beign bad in season7.

 

[Sawyer]

I really hope someone gets the reunion on video.

 

[Matt]

I really hope someone gets the reunion on video.

It'll be on Youtube an hour after it occurs.

 

[Matt]

Well the whole theme of their relationship was that she was being self destructive. It could never work out and Spike couldn't accept that .That is why I feel Spike should of went back to beign bad in season7.

But then it would've felt like even more of an Angel rip-off with Spike being evil, turning good, being with Buffy, then her causing him to turn evil ala Angelus.

I liked Spike better in early Buffy (Season 2 and 4) and then season 5 of Angel. Even though he had a soul in season 5 of Angel, he wasn't Mr.brood-all-the-time or a cheap Angel rip-off like he was on Buffy. His past sins didn't seem to bother him that much, which I liked. He was almost his Season 2-self. Its like he just didn't care about his past sins, which makes sense. Not everyone is going to respond to guilt in the same way or even necessarily feel guilt. I thought it was perfect that Spike showed basically no signs of remorse in season 5 of Angel and even continued to act morally gray without showing any signs of caring about that. It shows all the difference between Angel and Spike. While Angel is willing to accept that Angelus was part of him and he is responsible for his sins, it seems to fit the cowardly nature of Spike that he would justify it as "well, it was just the monster, not me" and be absolutely fine with what he did as opposed to trying to atone.

But alas, no Spike will be as good as he originally was in season 2. Villain Spike was amazing.

Buffy: Who are you?
Spike: You'll find out on tuesday.
Buffy: What happens on tuesday?
Spike: I'm going to kill you.

 

[Matt]

Also, call me crazy, but part of me always wished Spike died in the Season 3 episode of Angel, "Heart Throb" It always seemed to me like the James character was essentially Spike and the Elizabeth character was Dru. Plus it would've been such a perfect death for Spike. He loses Dru, has his own heart removed, finally beats Angel in a fight, and then dies.

I've always speculated that perhaps that was the original plan for the character, and that Spike's involvement in Buffy was not to go past Season 4 (where he parralel's his involvement in Season 2. He works with the villain, switches sides at the last minute, and then runs away like a coward). However, when it was apparent that Riley sucked and was not clicking with the audiences, they had to keep him around as they needed a male lead and instead of taking a risk with another new character they selected one with a built in fan base...and the rest is history.

 

[04nbod]

Well the whole theme of their relationship was that she was being self destructive. It could never work out and Spike couldn't accept that .That is why I feel Spike should of went back to beign bad in season7.

I agree. I mean the house coming down when they had sex said it all. People who support that relationship kinda freak me out!

 

[The Question]

it also turned into obsession and buffy kinda got the "battered wife syndrome" where they keep coming back for more till she was almost raped

There wasn't a "battered wife syndrome" aspect to it. Buffy wasn't getting abused by Spike. Up until the attempted rape, that is. Hell, if anyone was getting abused, at least on an emotional level, it was Spike. Buffy was just using him.

I liked Spike better in early Buffy (Season 2 and 4) and then season 5 of Angel. Even though he had a soul in season 5 of Angel, he wasn't Mr.brood-all-the-time or a cheap Angel rip-off like he was on Buffy. His past sins didn't seem to bother him that much, which I liked. He was almost his Season 2-self. Its like he just didn't care about his past sins, which makes sense. Not everyone is going to respond to guilt in the same way or even necessarily feel guilt. I thought it was perfect that Spike showed basically no signs of remorse in season 5 of Angel and even continued to act morally gray without showing any signs of caring about that. It shows all the difference between Angel and Spike. While Angel is willing to accept that Angelus was part of him and he is responsible for his sins, it seems to fit the cowardly nature of Spike that he would justify it as "well, it was just the monster, not me" and be absolutely fine with what he did as opposed to trying to atone.

I don't know. I think Spike accepts that he's responsible for what he did. He's never refered to his past actions as if someone or something else did it.

 

[Matt]

I don't know. I think Spike accepts that he's responsible for what he did. He's never refered to his past actions as if someone or something else did it.

He also never really showed any remorse or guilt over it either.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Spike was originally suppose to die in Season2 so Dru could step up to the plate. But since we all had to love him so much, they kept him around and never planned on killing him off.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I never really loved Spike all that much until Angel season 5.

 

[Matt]

Spike was originally suppose to die in Season2 so Dru could step up to the plate. But since we all had to love him so much, they kept him around and never planned on killing him off.

Never-the-less, it seems like James' death would've suited the character so much better than what became of him.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Who's James?

 

[TheFuture]

Who's James?

James Marsters.........as in Spike my friend.

Well, I think James did a fine job as Spike, he made the role his own. That doesn't neccessarily mean I like where they went with the characters direction. Season 5 was great for Spike, his disturbing and twisted love for Buffy served the character well. But then they had to let Buffy reciprocate and turn Spike into a *****.

 

[Matt]

No, I'm not talking about James Marsters. I am referring to the character James on Angel. He was in the Season 3 premiere. He was a cheap Spike knock off who went nuts after Angel killed the cheap Drusilla knock off Elizabeth and had his heart removed making him unkillable.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

What does Spike have to do with James? Was the James/Elizabeth story what was initially planned for Spike and Dru or something?