Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire

[Jennifer Walters]

I still am tired of Spike, tho. Great ***** fests with Angel aside. He just feels like a character whose story has been over for a while now, yet the creator won't let him go because he's just so damn popular.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, he's definitely the Wolverine of the Buffyverse. He just irritates me because he's become so one-note, but everyone else still loves him for some reason.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

And judging from the preview cover of Spike: After the Fall #3, he's fallen in love all over again.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, I'm not reading that.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

It's well, interesting to say the least, but the cover for issue #3 has him locking lips with...ugh, Illyria.

I don't know what's worse. The fact that he's in love with Illyria or the fact that he's in love with Fred depending on the angle they take it. If it's Fred, I hope Wesley comes back in a way he can kick Spike's ass. On the other hand, Illyria as a sexual being is just wrong.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think he's in love with Illyria. Spike: After the Fall is supposed to be Spike's parallel to Angel's post-season 5 comic. We know he wound up hanging out with Illyria after from Angel: After the Fall, and it seemed to be platonic (although Spike did have a whole harem of other hos). Maybe Illyria wanted to try sex out with someone before we see them in Angel: After the Fall. Kinda gross but not really a big deal.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Illyria shouldn't even be interested in sex with anyone. She thinks she's the highest being there is. She'd think letting another person touch her in that way would be beneath her.

 

[TheFuture]

All this Spike hating is really depressing.

I don't know how anyone can call him a "one note character". He's gone from pure evil to anti-hero to champion in the space of 6 seasons. None of this "only bad when no soul", his journey from the villain to champion minus a soul (except for the last season) is a very grounded story.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, I chalk it all up to the chip and his impotent obsession with Buffy. I think people make him out to be way too noble. The guy was chasing tail because he couldn't do anything else.

Illyria shouldn't even be interested in sex with anyone. She thinks she's the highest being there is. She'd think letting another person touch her in that way would be beneath her.

Unless she's accepting that she's stuck in her current body for the foreseeable future, so she's trying out new things with it.

 

[TheFuture]

Eh, I chalk it all up to the chip and his impotent obsession with Buffy. I think people make him out to be way too noble. The guy was chasing tail because he couldn't do anything else

At first it was all about the chip, but it evolved. He didn't have to keep Dawn's identity secret and get the **** beaten out of him. He didn't have to take Dawn under his wing when Buffy died.

He made a friend in Joyce, a friendship that meant enough to him that he wasn't interested in scoring points with Buffy, just showing his respect to the friend he lost. Remember Willow said to Xander that there's no name on the flowers?

And then there's the situation where Buffy made the call to have the chip removed, while Giles doubted her decision. Even though the question of how much did Spike's soul change him was still in the air she made that call.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Dawn's Buffy's kid sister, so helping her automatically scores points with Buffy. When Buffy died, he was emotionally f***ed up because he was so smitten with her. Look at the crazy s*** he did after Dru left him. Spike's emotions get dialed up to eleven when he loses his "loves."

Joyce I'll give you. That was one of the few things I liked about Spike, that he seemed to actually just like hanging out with Joyce. Of course, he never would've become friends with her without the chip because he would've happily bitten her and gone along his merry way.

The last one's irrelevant to Spike. That shows Buffy had faith in him, not that Spike himself was a better person.

 

[TheFuture]

Dawn's Buffy's kid sister, so helping her automatically scores points with Buffy. When Buffy died, he was emotionally f***ed up because he was so smitten with her. Look at the crazy s*** he did after Dru left him. Spike's emotions get dialed up to eleven when he loses his "loves.".

What crazy ****? Getting Willow to do a spell to get Dru to love him again? That was for personal gain. When Buffy died and he took it upon himself to be there for Dawn, he had nothing to gain.

Joyce I'll give you. That was one of the few things I liked about Spike, that he seemed to actually just like hanging out with Joyce. Of course, he never would've become friends with her without the chip because he would've happily bitten her and gone along his merry way.

And as I said, it was all about the chip, but it evolved. Spike was stunted by the chip, Angel was stunted by a soul. The chip makes his change no less valid than Angel's......

The last one's irrelevant to Spike. That shows Buffy had faith in him, not that Spike himself was a better person.

He had to earn Buffy's trust for her to have faith in him. To have faith, you must first have trust. She got the chip taken out on merit.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

I liked that Joyce and Spike became friends, but my favorite moment between them will always be the end of season 2.

Joyce: You look familiar. Have we met?
Spike: Once. You hit me over the head with a shovel. ''GET THE HELL AWAY FROM MY DAUGHTER!"
Joyce: Oh.

Something like that. Lol.

 

[TheFuture]

I liked that Joyce and Spike became friends, but my favorite moment between them will always be the end of season 2.

Joyce: You look familiar. Have we met?
Spike: Once. You hit me over the head with a shovel. ''GET THE HELL AWAY FROM MY DAUGHTER!"
Joyce: Oh.

Something like that. Lol.

Ha ha yeah. That was when he was a real cold bastard. The deal was if he helped Buffy stop Angelus, she wouldn't hurt Dru and that they left town. First chance he got he walked out with Dru without actually helpig Buffy beat Angelus!

 

[Harlekin]

I've always liked Spike, but I prefer his wiseass/badass personality over the whiny/lovesick puppy. The fifth season of Angel was is probably my fave when it comes to Spike. Badass, hero and a great foil to Angel.

 

[The Question]

That's what I liked about his character development from S5-7. The set back of trying to rape Buffy made no sense to me, taking how far he had already come. Take his friendship with Dawn, he became like a brother to her when Buffy died and not only that, he took the beating of a lifetime from Glory all in the name of keeping Dawn safe.

Sure he slept with Anya, who wasn't with Xander at that time, and yeah he got himself his own personal sex slave in the Buffybot, but they are not evil acts, certainly not for a Vampire anyway. Those kind of occurences showed that Spike the Vampire was still alive. There was no need for the rape attempt, that suggested he never really changed and all the goodness that he had done was all in the name of his obsession for Buffy.

I don't think it means he didn't really change at all. Coming from personal experience here, when you're on a path of personal discovery and growth, you do hit snags and setbacks and you have the occasional relapse. Mostly in times of emotional duress when you're reminded of the feelings that brought about those flaws in the first place. And when you're changing from a violent adrenalin junky criminal psychopath, you're snags and setbacks and relapses will be fairly dark.

 

[marukisu]

Yeah, he's definitely the Wolverine of the Buffyverse. He just irritates me because he's become so one-note, but everyone else still loves him for some reason.

Interesting comparison. Im just curious if you could label everyone in the Buffy/Angel verse as an X-Men character who would you label as who?

 

[Captain_BluTac]

I liked that Joyce and Spike became friends, but my favorite moment between them will always be the end of season 2.

Joyce: You look familiar. Have we met?
Spike: Once. You hit me over the head with a shovel. ''GET THE HELL AWAY FROM MY DAUGHTER!"
Joyce: Oh.

Something like that. Lol.

I thought Joyce hit him with the blunt end of an axe (in the only scene I ever even remotely liked the character)?

 

[The Question]

Yeah, it was an ax.

 

[Sawyer]

Yeah, he's definitely the Wolverine of the Buffyverse. He just irritates me because he's become so one-note, but everyone else still loves him for some reason.

Kind of like Wolverine...

 

[Darkly Dexter]

I finished with season 7 today so I can say now the best villians in my opinion:

1) Glory
2) The First
3) Angelus
4) The Mayor
5) Warren and nerds
6) Adam
7) The Master

 

[Sawyer]

I finished with season 7 today so I can say now the best villians in my opinion:

1) Glory
2) The First
3) Angelus
4) The Mayor
5) Warren and nerds
6) Adam
7) The Master

The Master below Adam and the nerds?

 

[Darkly Dexter]

The Master below Adam and the nerds?

yep, The Master sucked. Also Adam, they are both in the last place but I had to chose one.

The Nerds at least were hilarious.

 

[Matt.S99]

IMO, they're both better off without her.

Might sound bad, but Buffy s better alone

After a while, i felt the thing Angel and Cordy had was great and that they were perfect for each other. She couldnt kick ass like buffy cuold, she wasnt as strong as buffy, but her love for angel to me fit alot more than buffy with angel.

 

[Kahoot]

I finished with season 7 today so I can say now the best villians in my opinion:

1) Glory
2) The First
3) Angelus
4) The Mayor
5) Warren and nerds
6) Adam
7) The Master

But Adam was the best of them all