Burton's BATMAN 3 and what you know about it and theories and such etc.

Superman Lives would have been cool, just to see it done. Dunno about the casting choices though, it seems as if Tim Burton *lives* to piss off comic book fanboys.

I actually found the Kevin Smith script online and read it. It would have been cool as all get out and I'm not really a huge fan of Superman BUT I would have seen it.

There was that rumor also that someone wanted the Superman suit to be see through so we could see his innards working and such. Gross.

Nic Cage would have been good at the time too. Chris Rock as Olsen is as a bad of a choice as Topher Grace as Venom.

100th post!!! Sweet.
 
I dont think Robin would ever have been used in Burtons films. He didt like the character and he didnt fit with his version of Batman. It never would have happened. the part would have been cut just like the other time.

billy dee williams as two face would have been great.

robin williams as riddler. no.no.no. only ever a rumor, never confirmed. this was a carry over from 89, nothing more. there was even an article in an old issue of Wizard when they were announcing the cast for Forever that stated this.
 
He clearly does, he's quoted as saying that he would never read a comic book, i'm not bashing him here (I don't wanna start that again) I think Batman Returns is an incredible film, but none of his stuff stays faithful to the source material in any way. Not that BB does, there are some horrific breaks from continuity in there. But Burton does it more, Nicholson as Lex Luthor? He's just doing that to piss off the Batman people, it's blatant.

Burton said that in the moment of a heated argument with Kevin Smith (Who jokingly accused him of stealing something from a Smith-penned comic book). It is not true. You know when you're angry, you say things you don't mean?

Burton has openly admitted that he's not a comic book reader. But of the comics he encountered as a child, he did like Batman, but he was by no means an avid reader. He even found the comic panels confusing sometimes because he wasn't sure which ones to read first. Tim suffered from mild dyslexia as a child.

But if you'd bothered to even watch the bonus material for the Burton Batman film DVDs, you'd know how wrong you are. Burton read DKR for starters. Then he read TKJ, which he said he loved because "it was more like storyboards than a traditional comic book." Also, 1989 interviews and television coverage (That I have on a bootleg DVD) have Burton openly stating that he did some slight research into the character through DC, trying to lock down a difinitive interpretation of the character, but he couldn't find one because Batman had evolved so much. Burton also went to meetings pimping out TKJ saying "this is waht our film will look like" to get potential investors and licensees interested.

Add to it that Sam Hamm was a big time Batfan, and even wrote some stories for 'Tec. Burton hired Sam as the writer because he was impressed that Sam had such a good knowledge of the character's history. And if you read Hamm's original script before Burton and Skarron made their slight changes, it is the Batfilm of any fan's dreams. Robert Whul even said that prettymuch the first two-thirds of the film is all Hamm. Burton and Hamm went directly to the 1939 material for the biggest inspiration as a way to be pure and to "get away from all the detours the character has taken over the years."

Bob Kane was an active consultant, with a "Batman bible" for use by the crew (and it was used) for the things they could and could not do with Batman. Which fits, because they were repesenting Kane's original more than the more contemporary version (At least when it came to specifics).

And leaving aside the fact that The Joker killing the Waynes isn't accurate.... it doesn't change much, if anything at all. He's still Batman at the end, isn't he? And Burton did that to make it a little more epic, a little symbolic and he also did it to try and simulate the deep-seeded resentment between the two that exists in the comics but you can't replicate in a two-hour film so well.

And hey, the film wouldn't be so wonderfully loved by fans (Haters are really a pathetically small minority for this film) if it was as inaccurate as it is percieved by some.

Tim even said that he felt himself to be a fan as well, so he was just doing with the character what he wanted to see as a fan of Batman.

Returns is a different case because he had to be lured back by WB. He didn't want to do another, but they promised him "what if it's not a Batman film, but a Tim Burton film?" So it's really WB's fault. Tim changed the Penguin because at the time, the Penguin wasn't even a crime boss in the comics, he was a regular thief. So he needed more "oomph" (since WB forced the Penguin in there). Again, what you percieve as Tim trying to piss off fans (of all of the ignorant statements), was him just trying to make a good and interesting Batman film for the fans. Admittedly, B89 is more accurate overall because of Hamm's prescence and the control on Burton, but what he did was not out of hate for fans or an attempt to piss them off. Why is it okay to think this of Burton without a shred of evidence, and not Nolan? I'm unhappy that we're not just getting the actual Joker from the comic books (visually, anyway), but I'm not jumping to conclusions and saying that Nolan is trying to "piss off the fans."

Next time, do some research before you make such a bold claim. You wouldn't be saying B89 doesn't "say accurate to the comics" if you really were a fan and had some knowledge of the the Batman comics outside of the recent material, which I'm guessing you don't have by your statement.

And by the way, what does choosing Nicholson for Luthor have to do with pissing off Batman fans? And you do know Jon Peters was making these crazy decisions alongside Burton? Hell, he thought of the majority of them. And Nicholson as Luthor is much less crazy than Chris Rock as Jimmy Olsen.
 
He clearly does, he's quoted as saying that he would never read a comic book, i'm not bashing him here (I don't wanna start that again) I think Batman Returns is an incredible film, but none of his stuff stays faithful to the source material in any way. Not that BB does, there are some horrific breaks from continuity in there. But Burton does it more, Nicholson as Lex Luthor? He's just doing that to piss off the Batman people, it's blatant.

Burton never wanted Nicholson as Lex Luthor he wanted Kevin Spacey. He said so in his book Burton on Burton, and I also have quotes from Kevin Spacey talking about his meeting with burton for Superman Lives. I'll have post it later if I can find it. Just a sidenote Burton also was never going to use Kevin Smith's full Superman Lives script, only just a few concept from it like using Brainiac, Doomsday and the death and return of Superman. The script is on the internet on simplyscript.com it's by Dan Gilroy with the same title.
 
it seems as if Tim Burton *lives* to piss off comic book fanboys.

No, he doesn't. Tim Burton has a weird vision of Superman, but he has a weird vision of every single thing. If he made a movie about Richard III it would be weird and different. If he remade Jaws it would be weird and unique.
 
I actually found the Kevin Smith script online and read it. It would have been cool as all get out and I'm not really a huge fan of Superman BUT I would have seen it.

There was that rumor also that someone wanted the Superman suit to be see through so we could see his innards working and such. Gross.

Nic Cage would have been good at the time too. Chris Rock as Olsen is as a bad of a choice as Topher Grace as Venom.

100th post!!! Sweet.

1) congrats on 100th post, lol
2) i LOOOOOOVED topher as Venom
3) chris rock would've worked in burtons superman verse imo
4) nick cage would work in burtons verse as well... though in all honesty i prefer the Donner-verse.
 
Nick Cage was near bald even back then,would he have worn a hairpiece?!

That was the plan, from what we understand.

But thinking about it, Burton's SL would have definitely been interesting if the reason he had almost no powers was because of the return from death. And assuming that in the next film, we got back to basics, it would be an interesting thing.

I'll give Burton one thing in terms of being someone to think of for a comic book movie: he has very comic booky sensibilities. As we saw with B89, when you put enough of a reign on him, he turns out a very accurate (Not perfect, but no adaptation really is) very comic booky film, but not bad comic booky. Good comic booky. He doesn't bring out the silly (a'la Schumacher or Richard Lester), but he brings out the epic, the grandiose, the spectacular and the fantastic.

To this day, I still wish Burton had directed X-Men. It probably would have been more accurate in the end and he would have gotten the loner/freak aspect better than anyone else. And hey, I'll take Michael Keaton as Wolverine over Hugh Jackman any day.
 
batman 3 would of been awesome if it wasnt for WB for bein stupid. Even with Marlon Wayans as Robin or Lando as 2face. Batman 3 from what i have read could of had the riddler and possibly the return of catwoman, but everythin was rumor, either way i think the movie would of been ALOT better than Batman Forever, and it sucks becuz we could of had an actual Batman trilogy, but there isnt one, its hard for me to look at Batman Forever as a sequel to Batman returns becuz its so different, theres no connection, its like a reboot thats why i'm hoping Bale and nolan are part of at least 2 sequels, TDK and its sequel so we could finally have a Batman trilogy
 
batman 3 would of been awesome if it wasnt for WB for bein stupid. Even with Marlon Wayans as Robin or Lando as 2face. Batman 3 from what i have read could of had the riddler and possibly the return of catwoman, but everythin was rumor, either way i think the movie would of been ALOT better than Batman Forever, and it sucks becuz we could of had an actual Batman trilogy, but there isnt one, its hard for me to look at Batman Forever as a sequel to Batman returns becuz its so different, theres no connection, its like a reboot thats why i'm hoping Bale and nolan are part of at least 2 sequels, TDK and its sequel so we could finally have a Batman trilogy

yes sir - 100% :word:
 
T
To this day, I still wish Burton had directed X-Men. It probably would have been more accurate in the end and he would have gotten the loner/freak aspect better than anyone else. And hey, I'll take Michael Keaton as Wolverine over Hugh Jackman any day.

Intresting....I'm going to be thinking about that all day now.
 
To this day, I still wish Burton had directed X-Men. It probably would have been more accurate in the end and he would have gotten the loner/freak aspect better than anyone else. And hey, I'll take Michael Keaton as Wolverine over Hugh Jackman any day.

at least nobody would complain about Keaton's height. :woot:

But wait, why does nobody say "Jackman is too tall" (which he is and it takes away a lot of the wolverine character, but this is not the place to discuss that)
 
But wait, why does nobody say "Jackman is too tall" (which he is and it takes away a lot of the wolverine character, but this is not the place to discuss that)

Some people do. The thing is, Jackman is perfect as a Wolverine for the movies. You simply can't have a short (as in around five foot three short), hairy guy as a leading man, romantic intrest and action hero in these films, it would be silly.
 
Some people do. The thing is, Jackman is perfect as a Wolverine for the movies. You simply can't have a short (as in around five foot three short), hairy guy as a leading man, romantic intrest and action hero in these films, it would be silly.

well, i think THIS would actually be interesting.

God behave! if actors would actually look like their counterparts!
 
Some people do. The thing is, Jackman is perfect as a Wolverine for the movies. You simply can't have a short (as in around five foot three short), hairy guy as a leading man, romantic intrest and action hero in these films, it would be silly.

Well, if the films were done right, Wolverine would be the loner, not the star. Those films were rediculous. They turned Wolverine into the Cyclops of the group and they turned Cyclops into nothing. When he came into the comics, you could almost miss Wolverine because he wasn't trying to hog the limelight.

But even if they made Wolverine the star, why not do something different and have the fugly guy be the romantic interest, etc...?

It's like the yellow spandex (So sue me, I wanted to see an accurate adaptation, or at the very least, the brown and orange), you're not going to be laughing at the yellow spandex if after a fight, it's covered in blood. You'll only be thinking about how badass the guy is, independant of the color of his outfit. If you do Wolverine right (even if he is the star), you'll love and appreciate him for how deep he is behind his facade.

You know, never say "it wouldn't work" until it's attempted, because you don't know. If anyone could endear a short, hairy, scrappy loner to the audience, it would be Burton.

I am looking forward to the Wolvie spinoff, though. Because it looks like the script is going to be more accurate. Maybe he'll actually be acting like Wolverine for once and not "Cyclerine." Wolverine's supposed to be mean, not a smartass. So I'll forgive Jackman his trespasses if the script is correct. Jackman does the best he can for being miscast.
 
id love to have seen batman and catwoman fighting billy dee williams two-face... id so love that
 
Well, if the films were done right, Wolverine would be the loner, not the star. Those films were rediculous. They turned Wolverine into the Cyclops of the group and they turned Cyclops into nothing. When he came into the comics, you could almost miss Wolverine because he wasn't trying to hog the limelight.

But even if they made Wolverine the star, why not do something different and have the fugly guy be the romantic interest, etc...?

It's like the yellow spandex (So sue me, I wanted to see an accurate adaptation, or at the very least, the brown and orange), you're not going to be laughing at the yellow spandex if after a fight, it's covered in blood. You'll only be thinking about how badass the guy is, independant of the color of his outfit. If you do Wolverine right (even if he is the star), you'll love and appreciate him for how deep he is behind his facade.

You know, never say "it wouldn't work" until it's attempted, because you don't know. If anyone could endear a short, hairy, scrappy loner to the audience, it would be Burton.

I am looking forward to the Wolvie spinoff, though. Because it looks like the script is going to be more accurate. Maybe he'll actually be acting like Wolverine for once and not "Cyclerine." Wolverine's supposed to be mean, not a smartass. So I'll forgive Jackman his trespasses if the script is correct. Jackman does the best he can for being miscast.

I agree completely. Uncanny.

That is what made Wolverine unique. He was a hero, but he wasn't good looking and tall. He smoked and was far away from being a role model. Well, nowadays this "anti-hero" concept is the normal way of making new characters, you know edges and gritty and all that stuff.

BTW, I would have used the brown costume because he is supposed to be a wild animal and so this color fits better.
 
at least nobody would complain about Keaton's height. :woot:

But wait, why does nobody say "Jackman is too tall" (which he is and it takes away a lot of the wolverine character, but this is not the place to discuss that)

Only thing I complain about is the fact that he didnt wear the mask even though Singer said "that in a reality, people would not be running around in masks and in yellow tights."

It's too bad he hasn't opened his eyes to see that in his favorite gay bar he attends there are yellow tights and masks everywhere.
 
Only thing I complain about is the fact that he didnt wear the mask even though Singer said "that in a reality, people would not be running around in masks and in yellow tights."

Yeah. So many people don't understand it. In the Star Trek universe they travel faster-than-light, in action movies the hero is not hit by bullets and in a superhero universe it is normal to wear a costume. Nothing insane about it.
 
It's too bad he hasn't opened his eyes to see that in his favorite gay bar he attends there are yellow tights and masks everywhere.

wow
dude i hope yer joking cuz that comes off as a gay slam and my best friend is gay... so thats kind of offensive.
 
I dont think Robin would ever have been used in Burtons films. He didt like the character and he didnt fit with his version of Batman. It never would have happened. the part would have been cut just like the other time.

billy dee williams as two face would have been great.

robin williams as riddler. no.no.no. only ever a rumor, never confirmed. this was a carry over from 89, nothing more. there was even an article in an old issue of Wizard when they were announcing the cast for Forever that stated this.

he would have used Robin but totally change him into a black boy. He changes things that he doesnt like just like The Penguin.
 
and in a superhero universe it is normal to wear a costume. Nothing insane about it.

I don't think it's a matter of yellow tights not fitting into a superhero universe, it's more that the costumes used in comic books usually do not translate well into the real world. The one exception is Superman, not that his costume isn't as goofy as yellow tights but as an icon to the general public that character's look is more generally accepted.
 
I don't think it's a matter of yellow tights not fitting into a superhero universe, it's more that the costumes used in comic books usually do not translate well into the real world. The one exception is Superman, not that his costume isn't as goofy as yellow tights but as an icon to the general public that character's look is more generally accepted.

You have to validate the costume to the audience.

Remember Superman: The Movie? The idea of the traditional costume was being discussed even back then. I mean, it looks like what it is; a costume made in the early 40s. In the case that people found the costume silly, Richard Donner threw in the pimp saying "Hey Jim, whoo! That's a bad outfit!"

By already drawing attention to the absurdity of the costume in the context of the film, and then ignoring the fact that is is absurd ("Yes, it's a little silly. So what?"), the suit was validated and therefore, the audience is able to accept it. In a time as cynical as the late 1970s, the suit could have so easily been ridiculed as silly, but it wasn't.

You could have had a similar scene in X-Men with the yellow suit. Some guy could drop an insult at Logan, and Logan pops his claws at the guy's throat; "You wanna see what the man in yellow's gonna do to you?"

I believe that would instantly validate it.
 
You could have had a similar scene in X-Men with the yellow suit. Some guy could drop an insult at Logan, and Logan pops his claws at the guy's throat; "You wanna see what the man in yellow's gonna do to you?"

I believe that would instantly validate it.

yeah, the real Wolverine wouldn't even care. True wolverine, that would have been. But instead we got "What did you expect? Spandex?" :csad: :whatever: Pure mocking of the source material.
 

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