Burton's BATMAN 3 and what you know about it and theories and such etc.

[RobC]

i have had a scriptwriting course during my studies as well, and you're absolutely right, it's a tough job to convey information to the viewers, that's why - so we have been taught and it is also my personal opinion - one should use an intelligent, casual way of doing so and not spell it out literally (my teacher actually called this way of passing info as 'subcutaneous' which gives a good picture to remember i thought). that's my main gripe with BB, because it didn't even try.
i'm not sure if i would really want the B+R SE , but you convinced me of at least getting getting BR, maybe the first two.

Exactly, we get taught that as well. Our hardest one was to convey that some guy was cheating on his wife and she knew but without them saying it. It was HARD! I guess BB does kinda go for the jugular in terms of spelling things out...

 

[Mr.E.Nygma]

Thank you, no one liked it at the TDK Manip thread

Well it's because it wasn't the proper place, and many of them there are Nolan extremist fans lol!
But I like your pictures and how you manage to create with them. Except perhaps the cartoon Two-Face, other than that, it's cool!

 

[RobC]

I like the pic, but agreed, TDK board isn't the place to post it. Try manipping in maybe Freddy Krueger, or even Tommy Lee Jones as the scarred bit, that'd look more realistic.

And I use the term realistic in the loosest term possible.

 

[elgato]

I like the pic, but agreed, TDK board isn't the place to post it. Try manipping in maybe Freddy Krueger, or even Tommy Lee Jones as the scarred bit, that'd look more realistic.

And I use the term realistic in the loosest term possible.

Thank you forr comenting on my pic, I think the Two Face 13'' Figure face only fits in Aaron Eckhart

 

[RobC]

Huh?

 

[LyleHeckendorf]

The prof Van Helsing is yet another great Anthony Hopkins performance, I don't get tired of it, hence the nickname, hehe!

my bad, i was actually referring to our usernames, i happened to say nicknames though.
thanks for clearing up this Burton comment thing.

Exactly, we get taught that as well. Our hardest one was to convey that some guy was cheating on his wife and she knew but without them saying it. It was HARD! I guess BB does kinda go for the jugular in terms of spelling things out...

yep, those are the tough tasks. the two Burton films do a lot of those almost subliminal things in terms of dialogue or plain visuals, hence my love for them.
we did'nt have this kind of task as you did, so how did you solve it? lots of emotive close-ups or through symbols, icons, ellipsis etc...?

 

[elgato]

Huh?

I thought it would look more realistic by taking the hair out and paint it red

 

[RobC]

my bad, i was actually referring to our usernames, i happened to say nicknames though.
thanks for clearing up this Burton comment thing.



yep, those are the tough tasks. the two Burton films do a lot of those almost subliminal things in terms of dialogue or plain visuals, hence my love for them.
we did'nt have this kind of task as you did, so how did you solve it? lots of emotive close-ups or through symbols, icons, ellipsis etc...?

We did a lot of things, stilted dialogue, and a bit here he went to take a shower, and took his sim card out of his phone. It as a ***** of a scene to write...

 

[Cagefighterkip]

Batman takes on Scarecrow - Catwoman returns to fight w/the Bat. Harley comes out from the Asylum as a Joker-obsessed nut (think a girl nowadays who loves River Phoniex or Kurt Cobain) and is obsessed w/her dead hero. that wouldve been my ideal BAT3

 

[Stryder]

Some people do. The thing is, Jackman is perfect as a Wolverine for the movies. You simply can't have a short (as in around five foot three short), hairy guy as a leading man, romantic intrest and action hero in these films, it would be silly.

Glenn Danzig was rumored to be in the film as Wolverine.

 

[Evan Zaremba]

-Billy Dee Williams as Two-Face
-Marlon Wayans as Robin
-Robin Williams as Riddler was mostlikely Schumacher casting (even if impossible because Williams is still bitter about him being a bait for Nicholson to be Joker), but Riddler was rumored under Burton's wing, with a potential question mark shaved on his head
-Rene Russo for the Chase Meridian part
-Following Forever plotline


Heck, here's the Forever photoshoped that Luke from batmannews.de started and I completed :

Here are some conceptual sketches I did on how could Two-Face and Riddler look under Burton's direction, see the comments on my deviantart for more info on my idea :

I guess Batman333 will put up his stuff also . He has a whole site dedicated to rumors and everything.

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Actually, The Riddler with a question mark shaved into his head was actually an idea from Jim Carrey. An old Empire interview revealed that Carrey had been playing around with an idea of shaving a question mark into his head, but that didn't go through, because Carrey was going through a divorce court at the time, and he cannot show up in court with a question mark shaved into his head.

 

[Evan Zaremba]

Billy Dee Williams would have been a great Two-Face. I though he was, for his few minutes onscreen, a good Dent as well.

As for Marlon Wayans as Robin, bare in mind Burton's Robin would have differed substantially from the traditional version of the character. The more obvious problem is that Marlon Wayans is bigger than Michael Keaton. Six foot whereas Keaton is 5'10''.


Also, it's not a rumour or a potential casting; Wayans was actually cast as Robin for Batman Returns.

Actually, director Joel Schumacher only wanted Tommy Lee Jones for Two-Face, and thankfully, he did.

 

[Evan Zaremba]

Yeah, I always prefered Two-Face to Riddler, there's just so much more story there, hopefully The Dark Knight and the third film will do him more justic!

Catwoman returning would have been cool, especially if they kept Chase as well, a real triangle between Bruce's light side (Chase) and his dark masked side (Selina).

I think the intro of Robin would work though, but not as a street-wise punk kid, as an orphaned acrobat.

Well, Catwoman was not in any draft for Batman Forever, only archive footage. And yeah, they do Two-Face justice, but not with Billy Dee Williams in the role, because Joel found him too heroic like Clark Gable, and that's why he cast Tommy Lee Jones in the role.

 

[Evan Zaremba]

I dont think Robin would ever have been used in Burtons films. He didt like the character and he didnt fit with his version of Batman. It never would have happened. the part would have been cut just like the other time.

billy dee williams as two face would have been great.

robin williams as riddler. no.no.no. only ever a rumor, never confirmed. this was a carry over from 89, nothing more. there was even an article in an old issue of Wizard when they were announcing the cast for Forever that stated this.

Joel Schumacher called up Robin Williams and he said to him "Play The Riddler" and Robin said to Joel "I love to, Joel." Lee and Janet Scott Batchler did a wonderful job capturing his voice, because Robin Williams was a standup guy. When Jim Carrey was cast, the rest was history.

With Two-Face, Tommy Lee Jones did a wonderful job playing the character.

 

[Evan Zaremba]

Two Face- Billy Dee Williams
The Riddler- Robbin Williams
NO ROBIN!!!!
Catwoman- Michelle Pfeiffer (only in flashbacks and at the end)

It's like this:

Batman/Bruce Wayne - Michael Keaton
Two-Face/Harvey Dent - Tommy Lee Jones
Chase Meridian - Nicole Kidman
Riddler/Lyle Heckendorf - Robin Williams
Robin/Dick Grayson - Leonardo DiCaprio
Alfred - Michael Gough
Commissioner Gordon - Pat Hingle
Leather - Lisa Marie
Lace - Sheryl Lee
Dr. David Aims - J.T. Walsh
Dr. Burton - Rene Auberjonis
Vondelle Millions - Kimberly Scott
Mayor - Glen Shadix

I based that fancast on the first two drafts of the screenplay for Batman Forever by Lee and Janet Scott Batchler.

 

[Evan Zaremba]

I imagine Burton still would not have placed Robin in the film.

Blend the Gotham of BR with the Gotham of B'89. William's returning as Dent and Robin Williams as Riddler would have been superb choices IMO.

But alas, it's only a dream. We were only able to see Burton take on 2 Batman films, but they were excellent while they lasted.

And Robin Williams was Joel Schumacher's original choice for The Riddler before Jim Carrey was cast.

 

[Herofan]

A lot of people imagine or insist there would be Two-Face because he seems obvious and was in the actual film and they like Billy Dee Williams, I don't think he would have been in it given that Burton decided to not bring back Harvey/Williams in the second film at all (and maybe also that with the Penguin he had just done a lot of physically-freaky/deformed imagery and themes).

There probably would have just been Riddler, maybe another like Scarecrow (or maybe not, maybe even Burton would admit BR probably did have too many villains and it at least would be better to go back to one), otherwise there's really not much to tell what it would be like.

 

[Evan Zaremba]

-Billy Dee Williams as Two-Face
-Marlon Wayans as Robin
-Robin Williams as Riddler was mostlikely Schumacher casting (even if impossible because Williams is still bitter about him being a bait for Nicholson to be Joker), but Riddler was rumored under Burton's wing, with a potential question mark shaved on his head
-Rene Russo for the Chase Meridian part
-Following Forever plotline


Heck, here's the Forever photoshoped that Luke from batmannews.de started and I completed :

Here are some conceptual sketches I did on how could Two-Face and Riddler look under Burton's direction, see the comments on my deviantart for more info on my idea :

I guess Batman333 will put up his stuff also . He has a whole site dedicated to rumors and everything.

http://www.geocities.com/burtonsbatman3/

The Riddler with a question mark shaved into his head was actually an idea from Jim Carrey. An old Empire interview revealed that Carrey had been playing around with an idea of shaving a question mark into his head, but that didn't go through, because Carrey was going through a divorce court at the time, and he cannot show up in court with a question mark shaved into his head. He was involved with actress Lauren Holly at the time.

 

[Evan Zaremba]

Nothing is confirmed about anything. Burton didn't start developing the film past a few "maybes" at the meeting where he knew that WB didn't want him back. And the maybes are that which we do not know of.

All of this here is just conjecture and rumor.

And Tim Burton pass on the torch to his friend Joel Schumacher to continue with the franchise and helping out hiring Lee and Janet Scott Batchler to write the screenplay for Batman Forever, with Akiva Goldsman doing revisions. That's Burton's true involvement with the third film.

 

[Evan Zaremba]

A lot of people imagine or insist there would be Two-Face because he seems obvious and was in the actual film and they like Billy Dee Williams, I don't think he would have been in it given that Burton decided to not bring back Harvey/Williams in the second film at all (and maybe also that with the Penguin he had just done a lot of physically-freaky/deformed imagery and themes).

There probably would have just been Riddler, maybe another like Scarecrow (or maybe not, maybe even Burton would admit BR probably did have too many villains and it at least would be better to go back to one), otherwise there's really not much to tell what it would be like.

Actually, Warner Bros. only had Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face and Jim Carrey as The Riddler for Batman Forever. And it was Joel Schumacher who wanted to do The Scarecrow, but for Batman Unchained, with him planning to cast Nicolas Cage, who starred in his film 8mm.

Yeah, Tim didn't want Billy Dee Williams to return for the second one, but here's a real shocker for ya: MAX SHRECK WAS NEVER HARVEY DENT! Daniel Waters debunk this, saying that he only had one scene of Billy Dee Williams getting injured. And what he said on Superhero Stuff You Should Know that there's a scene where The Red Triangle Circus Gang threw acid at Harvey Dent's face during the Gotham City mayhem and he flips a coin at the end. That's his real role in Batman Returns.

 

[Evan Zaremba]

He clearly does, he's quoted as saying that he would never read a comic book, i'm not bashing him here (I don't wanna start that again) I think Batman Returns is an incredible film, but none of his stuff stays faithful to the source material in any way. Not that BB does, there are some horrific breaks from continuity in there. But Burton does it more, Nicholson as Lex Luthor? He's just doing that to piss off the Batman people, it's blatant.

And both Christopher Walken and Jim Carrey were Tim's choices for Brainiac.

 

[Evan Zaremba]

No he doesn't. And anyone who knew the man wouldn't say that.

He just likes to put his spin on things, like any director does. But I never liked the idea of Tim Burton for a Superman movie. Rediculous.

Tim Burton's Superman Lives would've had Nicolas Cage as Superman/Clark Kent, Linda Fiorentino as Lois Lane, Christopher Walken as Brainiac, Tommy Lee Jones as Lex Luthor, Chris Rock as Jimmy Olsen, Johnny Depp as Jor-El, Nicole Kidman as Lara, Barry Corbin as Perry White, and Kiefer Sutherland as Pa Kent. That would be an ass kicking film ever made, but thank God for Superman Returns by Bryan Singer, that's what they said when they saw the film in 2006.

 

[Evan Zaremba]

Yeah, I always prefered Two-Face to Riddler, there's just so much more story there, hopefully The Dark Knight and the third film will do him more justic!

Catwoman returning would have been cool, especially if they kept Chase as well, a real triangle between Bruce's light side (Chase) and his dark masked side (Selina).

I think the intro of Robin would work though, but not as a street-wise punk kid, as an orphaned acrobat.

Actually, Lee and Janet Scott Batchler didn't want Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman to return for Batman Forever, because they wanted to focus on the duality of Batman, and they created Chase Meridian for the film. And it was Joel Schumacher who originally cast Rene Russo as Chase Meridian when Joel wanted Michael Keaton to return as Batman. When Val Kilmer was cast, Rene was just a little older for Val, and the role of Chase went to Nicole Kidman.

 

[Evan Zaremba]

Thanks! Much appreciated! And yeah no Robin and more Two-Face (no rip-off Joker) would have been the way to go! Well, all we have to do now is wait for Aaron Eckhart, who will surely not dissapoint as much as TLJ...in fact, I have great faith in him!


I just had a thought, I wonder, if he was asked, what Burton woud say HIMSELF about the rumors and ideas he had (if any clear) on an eventual third part?? He slipped a word about it on the DVD commentary on the Returns SE, at the end credits. If I remember well, he said he could do something but in the end, he joked "fans must be glad I didn't make a third because they would have another DVD comment to hear from me then".

True, but not true, actually. Tim had one meeting with Warner Bros., passing on the torch to his friend Joel to continue with the franchise, helping out hiring the Batchlers to write the screenplay for Batman Forever, and that's it. Don't get me wrong, Tommy Lee Jones was an awesome Two-Face, before Aaron Eckhardt, and the way I love about TLJ as Two-Face is that his Two-Face was always over the top from the very beginning, but also a little subtler and more improved.

 

[Evan Zaremba]

Two of the greatest movies never made; Burton's Batman III and Superman Lives!

Actually, Tim Burton's Batman 3 didn't exist. Batman Forever never started out as a Tim Burton project. It was always Joel Schumacher's baby. It has revealed that Tim Burton's only involvement with Batman Forever as producer was to hire his friend Joel Schumacher as director and to continue with the franchise, and help out hiring Lee and Janet Scott Batchler to write the screenplay.

How about Tim Burton's Superman Lives, Joel Schumacher's Batman Unchained, and Sam Hamm's Batman II?