Can anyone make a good plot for the Cap movie?

chiefchirpa

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I tend to believe that the Captain America movie will be filled with many good action sequences but a little hard in the writing department without rehashing the same old theme of fighting Red Skull in two eras. So do you guys have any idea on a fresh storyline for the movie?
 
I tend to believe that Cap fighting the Red Skull in two eras is necessary. They both represent two differing ideologies, and seeing the new world from their perspectives would give the movie more emotion, and make their rivalry more personal.

If I had to do it. I'd have the Nazis building a base in the air, so they can attack America. The US learns of the plot, and send Cap and others to destory it. As the base sinks, Cap and the Skull are frozen in time. The US steals the Air Base idea when building SHIELD. Cap is found, and unfrozen, becoming an agent of SHIELD, serving his country again. The Skull, however, had been unfrozen before Cap, and built an army in secret in an attempt to conquer a world he sees ripe for the taking. Crossbones would be one of his lead henchmen in the new army. This would be done over two movies. Movie #1 ending with Cap being frozen, and #2, with a brief opening credits summary of #1, begins with him being found by someone.
 
Yeah, altering the costume shouldn't be a problem. Seeing the Red Skull alive & in your face would be so it! I wonder if the 1990' flick will ever make it to dvd (official, not bootleg)? Same goes for Roger Corman's awful FF movie.:doom:
 
Spider-Fan930 said:
I tend to believe that Cap fighting the Red Skull in two eras is necessary. They both represent two differing ideologies, and seeing the new world from their perspectives would give the movie more emotion, and make their rivalry more personal.

If I had to do it. I'd have the Nazis building a base in the air, so they can attack America. The US learns of the plot, and send Cap and others to destory it. As the base sinks, Cap and the Skull are frozen in time. The US steals the Air Base idea when building SHIELD. Cap is found, and unfrozen, becoming an agent of SHIELD, serving his country again. The Skull, however, had been unfrozen before Cap, and built an army in secret in an attempt to conquer a world he sees ripe for the taking. Crossbones would be one of his lead henchmen in the new army. This would be done over two movies. Movie #1 ending with Cap being frozen, and #2, with a brief opening credits summary of #1, begins with him being found by someone.

not bad! :up:
 
darwinwins said:
if they change his costume first, then yes.
Do you want the classic/mainstream/616 costume or the Ultimate universe costume?
 
Duneboy said:
Yeah, altering the costume shouldn't be a problem. Seeing the Red Skull alive & in your face would be so it! I wonder if the 1990' flick will ever make it to dvd (official, not bootleg)? Same goes for Roger Corman's awful FF movie.:doom:
ithink that cap film IS on official dvd:wish:
 
nah it's not. Yes, please do away with the fake ears! LOl.:hyper:
 
i think the 1st should be set entirely in WWII. Cap's creation and the Red Skull's ascendancy through the ranks of the nazi party would be the 2 larger stories. the second movie would involve Cap being thawed out by a newly-organized S.H.I.E.L.D, readjusting to a new era, and dealing with the growing threat of a new terrorist organization; Hydra. just for the purposes of the movie, Hydra would led by Wolfgang von Strucker. their figurehead would be the Red Skull who would be broken out of an underground military prison at the beginning of the movie; seemingly too much trouble to kill and extremely slow-aging. freeing the skull would prove to be a mistake on Strucker's part as he quickly usurps control of the group and superimposes his own new nihilistic outlook.

P.S. Arnim Zola will be in both movies (as a human eugenics expert in the first and a technology-dependent freak in the second) to physically enhance the skull; for better action scenes of course. his makeshift supersoldier-serum would fail in the first movie; notes they stole from the americans were incomplete.

Mitch Pillegi as Wolfgang von Strucker
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/da/Walterskinner.jpg

Udo Kier as Arnim Zola
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001424/

William Hurt (Syriana, the Good Shepherd, Dark City) as the Red Skull
http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0117038/Ss/0117038/1-9.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Hurt, William (I)
http://www.avengersforever.net/archivioimmagini/pict_issue/A-3-N-0483/D.jpg

Andrew Bryniarski as a Skull-obsessed Hydra grunt nicknamed "Crossbones"
http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0324...ain_TCM-CN-034-11A_12.jpg.html?hint=nm0117420

and maybe Milla Jovovich as Madame Hydra
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000170/
http://www.geocities.com/MHydra/viper053.jpg
 
I think that the people who want to set the film in World War II are missing the biggest strength of Captain America, the "man out of time" thing. The kids who picked up Avengers #4 in the 60s would not have been familiar with the old WWII comics, and, while there are a lot of good stories told in the World War II-era in flashback (and in the old Invaders comics), Cap's real story is modern, not in the past. Irregardless, we should under no circumstances bank on there being more than one film, so he has to be brought into the present in the first one (by the same token, you can't leave that to an Avengers film, because that means that a huge amount of time must be committed solely to bringing Cap into the 21st century).

I would open with Cap and a couple of the Invaders on leave in the closing months of the war, briefly returning to the continental USA. They would be watching a propaganda newsreel, which would open the film, chronicling (40s style) the exploits of Cap and his team. Now, I don't know what Invaders you could get into the film, realistically; Namor is bound for his own production, and I'd rather skip Bucky (I don't think he'd translate well), so Human Torch (assuming there isn't some niggling issue with the Fantastic Four franchise) and Union Jack and Spitfire (they're not American, obviously, but along to see the "colonies"). Afterwards, they stroll along the shore. Then, they stumble across the Red Skull and his people; Germany is lost, but they're planning to destroy Washington with a doomsday weapon launched from within the United States. Big fight, etc., Cap launched on a rocket, frozen...

Cap wakes up from his dream in the 21st century; he now lives on the Helicarrier (if SHIELD is allowed in the film; Fury is also getting his own film, so maybe not); if SHIELD's not allowed, then some military base will do. In order to avoid too much time showing Cap's initial reaction to his arrival, I'd prefer to use a flashback structure anchored in the present, a few years after Cap's return. That way, you can show scenes of him being discovered, his initial reaction, as well as his origin in World War II, with a minimum of time. Sharon Carter, Agent of SHIELD/whatever agency substitutes for SHIELD, is Cap's chief partner in the field, and love interest (you could also have them already involved, just to subvert the usual order of things in superhero movies). Sam Wilson would be here too; whether as an agent or as the Falcon, I'm not sure.

The plot in the modern era revolves around a series of terrorist attacks that has Cap convinced that the Skull is still alive (he got away back in 1945), despite the seeming unlikelihood of that. Similar to what Brubaker did at the start of his run, use this conviction to trigger some judicious flashbacks establishing the Cap/Skull mutual hatred, and how their origins are somewhat meshed (he was created to counteract the Skull's symbolism). If we're allowed to use SHIELD, the Skull's plan involves commandeering the Helicarrier itself, and taking control of the global security systems that operate out of it. I'd also use some variation of Brubaker's current plot thread, where Cap goes to see a SHIELD psychologist to deal with his issues; except the shrink is Doctor Faustus, manipulating him to suit the Skull's plans. The Skull is alive thanks to various treatments devised by Dr. Zola.

The Skull should succeed in taking over the carrier, and use the weapons systems (nuclear, laser satellites, whatever) to destroy a suitably large city, killing millions; however, he's not a typical villain, out for millions of dollars in payoffs; he wants to institute a new world order, an demands that anyone who wants to avoid his wrath must prove their loyalty by exterminating various "undesirables" within their own borders, and, on a national level, nations of undesirables (ie, most of the non-Caucasian world).

Cap, Sharon, and Sam stop him, of course.

We should also find a way to work the "Cap windsurfs on a fighter jet" scene from Civil War #1 in, because that was awesome (perhaps SHIELD attempts to take down Faustus-brainwashed Cap; not only do you get the cool moment, but you neatly reverse Millar's intent, since SHIELD is actually on the right side of things).
 
CaptainCanada said:
I think that the people who want to set the film in World War II are missing the biggest strength of Captain America, the "man out of time" thing.

i think you're missing the strength of his origin. you have to show the origin, so why not set the first movie in the era Cap was created? otherwise, you're going to have to hurry through his origin and the origin of the Red Skull. this is what separates Cap from other marvel movie heroes. he's from another time. movie goers have seen enough of present day New York city. they need a movie about a hero who fights alongside the military. i'd rather save the present day stuff for the sequel; have it be the cliffhanger for the first movie. if you don't agree, what's your selling point for the sequel if Cap is already in the present for the first?
 
Different villains or plots, character advancement; the same with every other superhero movie.

I already outlined why you cannot spend an entire film in the Second World War; you're banking on a sequel when there's a good chance there won't be one, thus potentially leaving fans unsatisfied. Likewise, you can't leave it up to an Avengers team film (which is what Marvel is planning), because that commits that film to a huge amount of space explaining Cap's return.

Finally, period superhero films never do well.

Captain America comics are not about World War II. They're anchored in the present, not the past. The past is backstory, prologue to the main event. Moreover, everyone knows that Cap gets frozen; that's the central facet of his character; so structuring an entire film where the endpoint is already well-known is a terrible idea; it's like structuring a Spider-Man film with the radioactive spider-bite as the climax.
 
CaptainCanada said:
I think that the people who want to set the film in World War II are missing the biggest strength of Captain America, the "man out of time" thing. The kids who picked up Avengers #4 in the 60s would not have been familiar with the old WWII comics, and, while there are a lot of good stories told in the World War II-era in flashback (and in the old Invaders comics), Cap's real story is modern, not in the past. Irregardless, we should under no circumstances bank on there being more than one film, so he has to be brought into the present in the first one (by the same token, you can't leave that to an Avengers film, because that means that a huge amount of time must be committed solely to bringing Cap into the 21st century).

I would open with Cap and a couple of the Invaders on leave in the closing months of the war, briefly returning to the continental USA. They would be watching a propaganda newsreel, which would open the film, chronicling (40s style) the exploits of Cap and his team. Now, I don't know what Invaders you could get into the film, realistically; Namor is bound for his own production, and I'd rather skip Bucky (I don't think he'd translate well), so Human Torch (assuming there isn't some niggling issue with the Fantastic Four franchise) and Union Jack and Spitfire (they're not American, obviously, but along to see the "colonies"). Afterwards, they stroll along the shore. Then, they stumble across the Red Skull and his people; Germany is lost, but they're planning to destroy Washington with a doomsday weapon launched from within the United States. Big fight, etc., Cap launched on a rocket, frozen...

Cap wakes up from his dream in the 21st century; he now lives on the Helicarrier (if SHIELD is allowed in the film; Fury is also getting his own film, so maybe not); if SHIELD's not allowed, then some military base will do. In order to avoid too much time showing Cap's initial reaction to his arrival, I'd prefer to use a flashback structure anchored in the present, a few years after Cap's return. That way, you can show scenes of him being discovered, his initial reaction, as well as his origin in World War II, with a minimum of time. Sharon Carter, Agent of SHIELD/whatever agency substitutes for SHIELD, is Cap's chief partner in the field, and love interest (you could also have them already involved, just to subvert the usual order of things in superhero movies). Sam Wilson would be here too; whether as an agent or as the Falcon, I'm not sure.

The plot in the modern era revolves around a series of terrorist attacks that has Cap convinced that the Skull is still alive (he got away back in 1945), despite the seeming unlikelihood of that. Similar to what Brubaker did at the start of his run, use this conviction to trigger some judicious flashbacks establishing the Cap/Skull mutual hatred, and how their origins are somewhat meshed (he was created to counteract the Skull's symbolism). If we're allowed to use SHIELD, the Skull's plan involves commandeering the Helicarrier itself, and taking control of the global security systems that operate out of it. I'd also use some variation of Brubaker's current plot thread, where Cap goes to see a SHIELD psychologist to deal with his issues; except the shrink is Doctor Faustus, manipulating him to suit the Skull's plans. The Skull is alive thanks to various treatments devised by Dr. Zola.

The Skull should succeed in taking over the carrier, and use the weapons systems (nuclear, laser satellites, whatever) to destroy a suitably large city, killing millions; however, he's not a typical villain, out for millions of dollars in payoffs; he wants to institute a new world order, an demands that anyone who wants to avoid his wrath must prove their loyalty by exterminating various "undesirables" within their own borders, and, on a national level, nations of undesirables (ie, most of the non-Caucasian world).

Cap, Sharon, and Sam stop him, of course.

We should also find a way to work the "Cap windsurfs on a fighter jet" scene from Civil War #1 in, because that was awesome (perhaps SHIELD attempts to take down Faustus-brainwashed Cap; not only do you get the cool moment, but you neatly reverse Millar's intent, since SHIELD is actually on the right side of things).

I think telling his origin over two movies enhances the man out of time theme. We see him more as a man of the WWII era if the first movie is set there, and seeing a whole sequel where he has to accept the world as it is would be more powerful and emotional.
 
Spider-Fan930 said:
I think telling his origin over two movies enhances the man out of time theme. We see him more as a man of the WWII era if the first movie is set there, and seeing a whole sequel where he has to accept the world as it is would be more powerful and emotional.
But if the first film isn't successful, there won't be a second film.

And, again, it is ridiculous to do a whole movie where the ending is predetermined to the extent that a Cap WWII film's ending would be.
 
CaptainCanada said:
But if the first film isn't successful, there won't be a second film.

And, again, it is ridiculous to do a whole movie where the ending is predetermined to the extent that a Cap WWII film's ending would be.

Cap may lose some worldwide BO appeal (being America isn't exactly #1 on a lot of love lists for other countries), but I think the movie would do well here and warrant a sequel. Also, the average joe won't know how the movie ends. You can guess how most of these movies end anyway. Good guy wins, bad guy loses. Not complicated. If they did the whole origin in one movie, they would have to be careful and not underdevelop either time period. Doing a whole WWII Cap movie would also be something new to the comic movie genre. We have yet to see a true period piece in this genre.
 
Spider-Fan930 said:
Doing a whole WWII Cap movie would also be something new to the comic movie genre. We have yet to see a true period piece in this genre.
The Rocketeer and The Shadow, both financial failures; as I mentioned in an earlier post, period sci-fi like Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow has also been unsuccessful.

You cannot spend two movies on an origin story; you cannot have Peter Parker get bitten by the radioactive spider at the end of the first movie, and the spider-bite is the equivalent of the time spent on ice in Cap's mythos; for all intents and purposes, the time before the modern era is background, just like it was in Avengers #4. The story is not World War II; it's the man from World War II in the modern era. In an age where every fan complains about narrative decompression in comics, it's amazing that they'd want one whole film before getting to the actual story (and taking the risk of not getting it at all).
 
CaptainCanada said:
The Rocketeer and The Shadow, both financial failures; as I mentioned in an earlier post, period sci-fi like Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow has also been unsuccessful.

Wasn't The Shadow a radio show first? Also, The Rocketeer was before the genre got popular. Captain America has more popularity than many of the other Marvel characters they are talking about doing movies for (Ghost Rider, Ant-Man, Luke Cage, etc). If done right, Cap would have a lot to offer to the comic movie genre. Again, if done right.
 
CaptainCanada said:
You cannot spend two movies on an origin story; you cannot have Peter Parker get bitten by the radioactive spider at the end of the first movie, and the spider-bite is the equivalent of the time spent on ice in Cap's mythos; for all intents and purposes, the time before the modern era is background, just like it was in Avengers #4. The story is not World War II; it's the man from World War II in the modern era. In an age where every fan complains about narrative decompression in comics, it's amazing that they'd want one whole film before getting to the actual story (and taking the risk of not getting it at all).

Cap is a different case. His origin is not simple. He has to be established enough as a man of WWII. This is an idea that needs to be established in order for the audience to understand his struggle. I think this is best done in two parts. As far as him not getting a sequel is concerned, if the movie is good and well advertised, it will make money. DD grossed over 100 mil in the BO. If DD can do that, Cap can.

I'll say that we probably won't get a two movie Cap story (much like I don't think we will get a two movie Galactus saga in the FF franchise), but I think this would be the best way to go.
 
Unfortunately, the concept of a Nazi in present day being the biggest threat to our safety just wouldnt work in the movies, where comic fans will only be a small portion of the people seeing the If part one were set in WW2, then red Skull shoould be dealt with and ended...and a new villian for the present day sequel.
 
The Red Skull isn't just a Nazi. He represents another ideology opposite of what Captain America stands for. Seeing him in the present day is interesting because the Skull would view this world much differently than Cap would. He isn't just a Nazi in the present day. It is symbolic.
 
CaptainCanada said:
The Rocketeer and The Shadow, both financial failures; as I mentioned in an earlier post, period sci-fi like Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow has also been unsuccessful.

You cannot spend two movies on an origin story; you cannot have Peter Parker get bitten by the radioactive spider at the end of the first movie, and the spider-bite is the equivalent of the time spent on ice in Cap's mythos; for all intents and purposes, the time before the modern era is background, just like it was in Avengers #4. The story is not World War II; it's the man from World War II in the modern era. In an age where every fan complains about narrative decompression in comics, it's amazing that they'd want one whole film before getting to the actual story (and taking the risk of not getting it at all).

I can't believe I missed this point in my last posts, but the frozen in time thing is not Cap's radioactive spider. That would be the Super Soldier Serum. Again, Cap has a much longer and complex origin than Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, etc. Thus, the idea of working it into two parts works.
 
Spider-Fan930 said:
I can't believe I missed this point in my last posts, but the frozen in time thing is not Cap's radioactive spider. That would be the Super Soldier Serum. Again, Cap has a much longer and complex origin than Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, etc. Thus, the idea of working it into two parts works.
I use the "radioactive spider" because that's where I see each story as really beginning; Cap's story is in the modern day. World War II is background.
 
Unlike the radioactive spider, Cap's background is much more complex and needs a lot more time given to it. You can't just give him the super soldier serum, then he goes on a suicide mission and is frozen with the Skull, then they awake and fight each other the entire rest of the movie. Spider-Man's whole origin was completed in 1 hour. Cap's cannot be done like that. Well, it could be done like that, but it wouldn't be as good. I think seeing a movie set in WWII, where we see Steve's life before Cap, the experiment, reactions of people to Captain America, and of course the Red Skull planning to destroy the US sets up the man out of time aspect of his story much better in a sequel. We will feel even more sorry for his situation.

Again, I doubt we will ever get two movies to tell Cap's origin, but if it were to be done in one movie, I think it would have to be near 2hr and 30 min, like Batman Begins. There is just too much to cover in his origin for it not to be that long.
 
Captain America, rich industrialist dictator from Cuba is on the run from the American government for hiding weapons of mass destruction. . . or something like that. Really throw us a curve ball.. . Give him breasts. That'll really keep us guessing.
 

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