What’s wrong with a Period Piece Captain America movie?

[Everyman]

Period superhero movies don't go down well at the box office.

The Shadow, The Rocketeer and The Phantom for example.

It doesn't mean that it cannot work. All of the above were not genuine enough, they didn't feel much like a period piece.

 

[Sun_Down]

The Ultimates did one issue and an isolated event. WWII needs far more than that. The Ultimates way works as a comic, but not as a movie.

As for the audience recalling #1, well this didn't hurt Return of the Jedi or any Star Wars prequel, nor LOTR.

I don't really understand what you're saying by, "WWII needs far more than that", but anyway...

If you think that a Captain America movie is going to have the same psycho-devoted following as LOTR or Star Wars, you're kidding yourself. And Star Wars didn't jump 60 years into the future for it's second film, either.

From a story-telling standpoint, I just think that flashbacks work better for establishing the "man out of time" story than a whole other movie. It's kinda like Batman Begins. We didn't need to see Bruce and his family for two hours to establish that he loved this parents and that losing them would have such a profound effect on him. Those flashbacks really said more by saying less. Take the flashback of Thomas showing Bruce how to use the stethoscope, even without dialogue that short scene showed their love for each other and was very moving.

I'm not saying they shouldn't explore his past. In fact, I'd like the movie to have lots of flashbacks. But I just think that the idea of a whole movie set in the 40's to establish his situation would actually hurt the story.

 

[ssj wolverine]

What's wrong with it is that Captain America is boring.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I don't really understand what you're saying by, "WWII needs far more than that", but anyway...

If you think that a Captain America movie is going to have the same psycho-devoted following as LOTR or Star Wars, you're kidding yourself. And Star Wars didn't jump 60 years into the future for it's second film, either.

From a story-telling standpoint, I just think that flashbacks work better for establishing the "man out of time" story than a whole other movie. It's kinda like Batman Begins. We didn't need to see Bruce and his family for two hours to establish that he loved this parents and that losing them would have such a profound effect on him. Those flashbacks really said more by saying less. Take the flashback of Thomas showing Bruce how to use the stethoscope, even without dialogue that short scene showed their love for each other and was very moving.

I'm not saying they shouldn't explore his past. In fact, I'd like the movie to have lots of flashbacks. But I just think that the idea of a whole movie set in the 40's to establish his situation would actually hurt the story.

Thats not the issue. You said that audiences will have trouble remembering part 1 when part 2 comes out, and I have given examples to the contrary. Don't stoop to such low defenses as "but, but the following is smaller". That is a weak, and bad argument.

With Batman, it is different. You only have to cover the start of his Bat-career. Cap had a entire carreer before he came to today, and doing a few flashbacks will not properly give us a sense of who he is. Like I have said many times over, Cap has two origins and two carreers, thus I think telling his story is far more complex than Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, etc.

How would showing us WWII hurt the story? All we are doing is expanding on his life. I don't see this as hindering, it is only helping. Also, it is difficult to find a plot for the Red Skull that can span two different periods in time. Fleshing this story out more is best.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Exactly. Bruce Wayne has never been given comics devoted solely to him as a Child. When Caps was created, all of his comics were about him fighting the Nazis in WWII. I personally would love for the first Caps film to be a period piece. The second and third can have him in the present.

 

[Spider - Man]

Exactly. Bruce Wayne has never been given comics devoted solely to him as a Child. When Caps was created, all of his comics were about him fighting the Nazis in WWII. I personally would love for the first Caps film to be a period piece. The second and third can have him in the present.

I think they should do 1 film each of the main Avengers. Cap as a period piece, along with Antman and Thor in 2009 - Fury will be portrayed in IronMan. Then release a BIG Avengers film, I'm talking 150 minutes at least, in 2011, then let the individual heroes finish out their solo trilogies. If they try to go the 3-films each-and-then-Avengers route, I don't think Norton will stick around that long.

As I said, I think making Cap a sympathetic hero and then dramatically "killing" him at the end of his first movie would blow peoples' minds. I mean, how many superhero films have ended that way? Then imagine when they discover that he isn't really dead 60+ years later in the Avengers film! Personally, I think a film will be longer remembered for "a hero dying spectacularly and unexpectedly at the end fighting for the freedom of the world" than a film about "a man out of time".

Everything said in this thread is just speculation and opinion but I have given reasons why I think it would work best the way I say I think it would. This genre needs something to shake it up and a whole WW2 Cap with him "dying" at the end directed by Spielberg himself would be a huge shotin the arm. Follow that up with the Avengers, which would be IMO the single greatest superhero flic ever (and I'm a Spidey fan), you'd have as near superhero cinema perfection as you're gonna get!

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think they should do 1 film each of the main Avengers. Cap as a period piece, along with Antman and Thor in 2009 - Fury will be portrayed in IronMan. Then release a BIG Avengers film, I'm talking 150 minutes at least, in 2011, then let the individual heroes finish out their solo trilogies. If they try to go the 3-films each-and-then-Avengers route, I don't think Norton will stick around that long.

As I said, I think making Cap a sympathetic hero and then dramatically "killing" him at the end of his first movie would blow peoples' minds. I mean, how many superhero films have ended that way? Then imagine when they discover that he isn't really dead 60+ years later in the Avengers film! Personally, I think a film will be longer remembered for "a hero dying spectacularly and unexpectedly at the end fighting for the freedom of the world" than a film about "a man out of time".

Everything said in this thread is just speculation and opinion but I have given reasons why I think it would work best the way I say I think it would. This genre needs something to shake it up and a whole WW2 Cap with him "dying" at the end directed by Spielberg himself would be a huge shotin the arm. Follow that up with the Avengers, which would be IMO the single greatest superhero flic ever (and I'm a Spidey fan), you'd have as near superhero cinema perfection as you're gonna get!

I don't say "kill" him. I would end it with him being in an ice cube, and a bright light or something shining on him.

However, I totally agree, a Cap movie done right could easily be the best comic movie ever (and I am a Spidey fan too man).

 

[Sun_Down]

Thats not the issue. You said that audiences will have trouble remembering part 1 when part 2 comes out, and I have given examples to the contrary. Don't stoop to such low defenses as "but, but the following is smaller". That is a weak, and bad argument.

With Batman, it is different. You only have to cover the start of his Bat-career. Cap had a entire carreer before he came to today, and doing a few flashbacks will not properly give us a sense of who he is. Like I have said many times over, Cap has two origins and two carreers, thus I think telling his story is far more complex than Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, etc.

How would showing us WWII hurt the story? All we are doing is expanding on his life. I don't see this as hindering, it is only helping. Also, it is difficult to find a plot for the Red Skull that can span two different periods in time. Fleshing this story out more is best.

I'm not "stooping" to anything. I'm just saying that such a big transition from film to film will be problematic. None of the examples you've stated incorporate a 60 year time lapse between films either, so the comparison doesn't work for me.

But the point is that I don't think it's the best move from a story-telling point. It's a less-is-more situation, IMO. You may think that "expanding on his life" is a good thing or that simply showing more stuff will make the story richer, but that's not necessarily the case. A whole movie just the establish that Captain America was in fact a hero in the 40's would be very cumbersome and by the time the sequel came out (assuming there was one), the impact could wear off. Even worse, the total change in tone from 1945 to 2009ish from movie one to movie two would just feel akward, IMO.

Alas, these are but my opinions and they're really not worth you getting all offended by.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm not "stooping" to anything. I'm just saying that such a big transition from film to film will be problematic. None of the examples you've stated incorporate a 60 year time lapse between films either, so the comparison doesn't work for me.

But the point is that I don't think it's the best move from a story-telling point. It's a less-is-more situation, IMO. You may think that "expanding on his life" is a good thing or that simply showing more stuff will make the story richer, but that's not necessarily the case. A whole movie just the establish that Captain America was in fact a hero in the 40's would be very cumbersome and by the time the sequel came out (assuming there was one), the impact could wear off. Even worse, the total change in tone from 1945 to 2009ish from movie one to movie two would just feel akward, IMO.

Alas, these are but my opinions and they're really not worth you getting all offended by.

I am not getting offended. You misunderstand. I just hated your one excuse.

Going from 1945 to 2010ish is supposed to be awkward. That is part of the whole point. It works better for the story, since I can now let time breath, I can follow Cap's journey through the war, his life before joining, and his ultimate sacrifice. Then follow both him and the Skull's journey through time (I knwo both will end up going through it), and seeing the world. Plus, we now don't need to find ways to have the Skull's plot overlap 60+ years. The story is just richer.

The impact is not going to where off because you leave the audience wanting more. Saying "WTF" at the end, much like TESB and ROTJ. Granted, a 60 year gap between is new, but that is part of the beauty of the idea. It is original unlike most crap Hollywood dishes out today. Comic movies have been very formulaic as far as franchise development, and doing Cap this way does the character more justice, and does something unique.

 

[Spider - Man]

I am not getting offended. You misunderstand. I just hated your one excuse.

Going from 1945 to 2010ish is supposed to be awkward. That is part of the whole point. It works better for the story, since I can now let time breath, I can follow Cap's journey through the war, his life before joining, and his ultimate sacrifice. Then follow both him and the Skull's journey through time (I knwo both will end up going through it), and seeing the world. Plus, we now don't need to find ways to have the Skull's plot overlap 60+ years. The story is just richer.

The impact is not going to where off because you leave the audience wanting more. Saying "WTF" at the end, much like TESB and ROTJ. Granted, a 60 year gap between is new, but that is part of the beauty of the idea. It is original unlike most crap Hollywood dishes out today. Comic movies have been very formulaic as far as franchise development, and doing Cap this way does the character more justice, and does something unique.

Thank you! Yes, isn't that what the whole "man out of time" idea is supposed to be like?

 

[Everyman]

Thats not the issue. You said that audiences will have trouble remembering part 1 when part 2 comes out, and I have given examples to the contrary. Don't stoop to such low defenses as "but, but the following is smaller". That is a weak, and bad argument.

With Batman, it is different. You only have to cover the start of his Bat-career. Cap had a entire carreer before he came to today, and doing a few flashbacks will not properly give us a sense of who he is. Like I have said many times over, Cap has two origins and two carreers, thus I think telling his story is far more complex than Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, etc.

How would showing us WWII hurt the story? All we are doing is expanding on his life. I don't see this as hindering, it is only helping. Also, it is difficult to find a plot for the Red Skull that can span two different periods in time. Fleshing this story out more is best.

Exactly. The only way I could see it happening with two different time periods is going the way of The Godfather II. And with the content of a superhero movie, I don't think such approach would work for a first Captain America movie. You have to establish that 1)there were superheroes/supervillains in a precise period of our past. 2)they had an influence over an emblematic part of our history. Try to cram those two concepts in a flashback.

 

[Sun_Down]

I am not getting offended. You misunderstand. I just hated your one excuse.

Going from 1945 to 2010ish is supposed to be awkward. That is part of the whole point. It works better for the story, since I can now let time breath, I can follow Cap's journey through the war, his life before joining, and his ultimate sacrifice. Then follow both him and the Skull's journey through time (I knwo both will end up going through it), and seeing the world. Plus, we now don't need to find ways to have the Skull's plot overlap 60+ years. The story is just richer.

The impact is not going to where off because you leave the audience wanting more. Saying "WTF" at the end, much like TESB and ROTJ. Granted, a 60 year gap between is new, but that is part of the beauty of the idea. It is original unlike most crap Hollywood dishes out today. Comic movies have been very formulaic as far as franchise development, and doing Cap this way does the character more justice, and does something unique.

You make some good points, for sure. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[The Guard]

War created Captain America. That doesn't neccessarily have to be World War II. Would it be nice to see CAPTAIN AMERICA set in WWII and then see CAPTAIN AMERICA RETURNS set in the near future? Sure, but it's not neccessary to do so to make a great film. The concept of war and Captain America's idealism against the enemies of freedom is what makes the concept work, not the fact that it has to be entirely set in WWII.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I would have it a 90/10 split. The action and drama is purely in 1940s, but we are with Cap as he wakes up in present day at the start of the movie. The movie would revolve around Cap/us trying to remember what happened to him.

 

[Mr. Socko]

God forbid they do something like have him as a soldier made during the war on Iraq and Red Skull is an arab terrorist. lol

 

[Sun_Down]

God forbid they do something like have him as a soldier made during the war on Iraq and Red Skull is an arab terrorist. lol

Shh! Don't give Marvel any ideas!

 

[Spider-Fan]

God forbid they do something like have him as a soldier made during the war on Iraq and Red Skull is an arab terrorist. lol

It would never happen. Feige would be long gone before filming this idea, I guarantee it. Don't ask how t:

 

[weezerspider]

Among other things, everyone knows that Captain America gets frozen in time and taken to the 21st century

Comic book readers aren't the world's population. Little kids don't know that. Hell, 90% of moviegoers don't know that. A WWII movie is the best way to intruduce Cap. He can be thawed out in the Avengers movie or in Cap 2.

 

[Everyman]

War created Captain America. That doesn't neccessarily have to be World War II. Would it be nice to see CAPTAIN AMERICA set in WWII and then see CAPTAIN AMERICA RETURNS set in the near future? Sure, but it's not neccessary to do so to make a great film. The concept of war and Captain America's idealism against the enemies of freedom is what makes the concept work, not the fact that it has to be entirely set in WWII.

I don't think it's just any war that created Cap. It is a precise war, with a precise ideological conflict in a precise time in history. To define the character, it is essential that the movie is set during WWII.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I don't think it's just any war that created Cap. It is a precise war, with a precise ideological conflict in a precise time in history. To define the character, it is essential that the movie is set during WWII.

PREACH ON BROTHA

 

[Cyrusbales]

In terms of quality, there's nothing wrong with a period piece.

However for the genre, it's probably gonna hurt the box office because kids will be confused as to why they don't just have him shooting people in downtown LA present day

 

[Spider - Man]

In terms of quality, there's nothing wrong with a period piece.

However for the genre, it's probably gonna hurt the box office because kids will be confused as to why they don't just have him shooting people in downtown LA present day

Kids...will be confused...because Captain America...isn't shooting people...in downtown LA? Because...that's what Cap is obviously known for doing...is shooting people..in downtown LA! That is the best argument I've heard yet for not making it a period piece!

This is so silly it's almost sig worthy. I said 'almost'.

 

[Cyrusbales]

Kids...will be confused...because Captain America...isn't shooting people...in downtown LA? Because...that's what Cap is obviously known for doing...is shooting people..in downtown LA! That is the best argument I've heard yet for NOT making it a period piece!

This is so silly it's almost sig worthy. I said 'almost'.

My comedic intentions came shining through i see.....