The Amazing Spider-Man Can High School and Serious Go Together?

[Rodrigo90]

Of course there were serious moments in the movies,spider-neil.

But with 3,hardly any seriousness. That movie didnt take itself seriously. They all thought "Hey! Since this will most definitely by the last Spider-Man movie with us,why dont we just have fun?"

The writing and acting was atrocious in 3,because they didnt care that much anymore and just wanted to make it fun. I love the movie,but I class it as the Batman Forever of its franchise. The Twist with Harry and MJ almost killed it for me...then the club scene...I cringe when I hear Tobey say "Go find us some shade".

To to be honest...why should this reboot by grim and gritty? Thats not what Spider-Man was or even is today. He is in high-school and they want it to be that?...WTH?!!

 

[spider-neil]

Of course there were serious moments in the movies,spider-neil.

But with 3,hardly any seriousness. That movie didnt take itself seriously. They all thought "Hey! Since this will most definitely by the last Spider-Man movie with us,why dont we just have fun?"

The writing and acting was atrocious in 3,because they didnt care that much anymore and just wanted to make it fun. I love the movie,but I class it as the Batman Forever of its franchise. The Twist with Harry and MJ almost killed it for me...then the club scene...I cringe when I hear Tobey say "Go find us some shade".

To to be honest...why should this reboot by grim and gritty? Thats not what Spider-Man was or even is today. He is in high-school and they want it to be that?...WTH?!!

I've pushed SM3 out of mind. the studio interfered and as a result the movie became a laugh fest.

 

[Dragon]

I don't think seriousness is the issue. All of the current teen angst crap that Sony seems to be leaning toward is very serious. In fact its too serious. Classic Spidey also had comedy. And that's what I want. I want Spidey to be Spidey. Not Twilight, not The Dark Knight. Not whatever Sony thinks will sell. Just Spider-Man.

 

[spider-neil]

I don't think seriousness is the issue. All of the current teen angst crap that Sony seems to be leaning toward is very serious. In fact its too serious. Classic Spidey also had comedy. And that's what I want. I want Spidey to be Spidey. Not Twilight, not The Dark Knight. Not whatever Sony thinks will sell. Just Spider-Man.

I've basically been given the spidey I want with spidey 2 all I want now is just one scene were spidey absolutely destoys a villian with wise cracks. it can be in the opening credits for all I care, that is the ONE thing I'm desparate to see and my fear is deadpool is going to get there first so when spidey DOES eventually do it the audience will go 'well, you're just copying deadpool'.

 

[Ajendo]

The reboot will take Peter back to High School. The reboot has been reported (not confirmed) to be following the lines of USM, where the villains/fights took a back seat to the daily life in High School. There have been reports from Sony that they will be taking a more serious/realistic/gritty approach to the reboot.

So what does a more serious approach mean to you, the Spider-Man fans?

Do you think we will get something more along the lines of WB's Smallville, or do you think we will still get action like we had in Raimi's Spider-Man, but without all the She Loves me.. She Loves me Not?

What is "serious" to you?

I think "serious" means a more mature and less kidified version. Raimi's movies are guilty of being kidified to the highest order and Raimi simply didn't know how to handle the drama. We got this boring, love-sappy, crying stuff that was more of a distraction and hinderance and as a result completely took me out of really caring and having a genuine interest in what was going on in Peter's life. It just wasn't gripping and engaging.

USM has the right tone of seriousness and lighT hearted stuff that would work perfectly on screen and although I don't care for direct page lifts from the comics (616 or USM) I think what makes spidey a success in other mediums is, knowing that keeping what makes the character great and endearing as part of the formula, something Raimi ommitted from his movies.

 

[Ajendo]

Do people find Peter's high school life in Stan Lee's era, or in the SSM cartoon serious? Or Buffy in her high school seasons in her TV series?

Yes, yes, and yes.

The thing is, it's too easy to Look at Stan's original work and misinterpret it as being cheesier than it actually is. The language and style of story telling is by and large dated, mostly and that's why Lee's era is mostly appreciated and recognised for what it truely is by purists. People like Raimi on the other hand will assimilate it and understand it to be something that it isn't and as a result, his movies imo turned out to be nothing more than an exhibition of cheese fests.

USM as you are aware I'm sure, is a reimagining of Lee's era but just more fleshed out and established in a contemporary setting, where it's easier to distinguish the cheese from what is more serious.

 

[TheSlag]

Great posts and points Ajendo!

You gave one general example, that being the "boring, love-sappy, crying stuff..." that I totally agree with.

 

[spider-neil]

I think "serious" means a more mature and less kidified version. Raimi's movies are guilty of being kidified to the highest order and Raimi simply didn't know how to handle the drama. We got this boring, love-sappy, crying stuff that was more of a distraction and hinderance and as a result completely took me out of really caring and having a genuine interest in what was going on in Peter's life. It just wasn't gripping and engaging.

USM has the right tone of seriousness and lighT hearted stuff that would work perfectly on screen and although I don't care for direct page lifts from the comics (616 or USM) I think what makes spidey a success in other mediums is, knowing that keeping what makes the character great and endearing as part of the formula, something Raimi ommitted from his movies.

totally disagree I ABSOLUTELY found peter life (in 1 and 2) gripping and engaging.

 

[TheSlag]

I cared about Peter because I grew up reading ASM, and loved the character. But even with that, I got sick of the ALL about ONE girl BS, and how ditsey and whiney the "GweMJ" character was.

A characteristic of that hybrid creation that I never associated with either Gwen or MJ.

It was bad enough in SM1, but with the great ending to SM1 (cemetery scene), I held out high hopes that Sam would "right the ship" on this element in SM2. Boy.. WAS I WRONG!!

And of course, then came SM3 and more ad naseum of the same.

 

[Ajendo]

totally disagree I ABSOLUTELY found peter life (in 1 and 2) gripping and engaging.

horses for courses and all that stuff, eh.

I think the intention of Peter's plight may have been good but the execution imo was just way off. Instead of being able to identify with the character or at least to show him some support, I found myself pittying him and then becomming furiously annoyed with him and his lack of personal/social development. Through out all 3 movies, Peter was a wimp through and through and had no real back bone. That scene in SM2 where Peter walks away from these guys beating on some other dude still irks me to this day.

I just want some engaging story telling, with believable dialogue and plights that aren't useless and make the characters dull, boring and annoying.

 

[terry78]

You need to define serious and define corny. Iron Man and the new Star Trek are examples of movies that have a massive amount of comedy, yet you never view it as campy or goofy.

 

[spider-neil]

You need to define serious and define corny. Iron Man and the new Star Trek are examples of movies that have a massive amount of comedy, yet you never view it as campy or goofy.

star trek -
kirk's hands blow up to the size of balloons.
scotty beams into a water pipe (seriously what purpose did that scene serve?)

Iron man -
I kind of agree with iron man although the pole dance air stewardesses was definately goofy

 

[Deaths Head II]

Iron man -
I kind of agree with iron man although the pole dance air stewardesses was definately goofy

It was hilarious and it was good for Stark's characterization to show how much of a self centered and oblivious rich *****ebag he was before he became Iron Man since he was willing to spend money to have that on his private plane.

 

[TheSlag]

I think something that can make for a more serious storyline is not having so many being a fan of Spider-Man, especially those closest in Peter's life.

Aunt May, I think it adds to the storyline if Aunt May is suspicious of Spider-Man and even worries about Peter taking his pictures, as opposed to being basically his number one fan in Raimi's Spider-Man. No more speeches from Aunt May about how much of a hero Spider-Man is, and how long people will stand in line for a glimpse. *sheesh*

Gwen, the girl he loves. I loved the storyline that evolved in ASM where Gwen blames Spider-Man for the death of her father. Greatness, forcing Peter to face his great responsibilty alone.

NYers. Obviously a select few can support Spidey, with Flash representing that. Especially good with the ying and yang of how much Flash tears down Peter and worships his alter ego Spider-Man.

But, NO MORE Spidey Days!!!! I want to feel for Peter as he faces the great responsibilites of his powers.

 

[Anwar]

I think having May really realize Spidey isn't some menace isn't a bad thing. Seriously, 40 years of he "That awful Spider-Man!" stuff got really annoying. They may as well subvert the whole thing by having her reveal in the second movie she knows he's Spider-Man because she noticed him swinging to the house every few nights and recognized Peter's voice.

 

[©KAW]

A serious toned Spider-Man, where the banter and witty attitude is mostly, if not only, represented by Peter/Spidey. That would be a dream come true for me. A New York that is realistic, serious and isn't filled with a bunch of happy-go-lucky New Yorkers, who loves Spider-Man to death. I really miss elements where Spider-Man is despised, because some actually believe the stuff that the Daily Bugle writes. Not to mention, that he and his villains are huge property damage machines. People are never happy about that.

I'd like to see more complex villains, not villains who sound like villains from the 1940s..."we'll meet again Spider-Man!" or reciting nursery rhymes "Itsy Bitsy Spider-Man...". Dig deep into the mindset of why the villain do what he does. Which is why I love 'Kraven's Last Hunt'. Bring us some worldly villains who lie in the background, and hasn't received their gift/powers yet.

Spider-Man needs to be tested not only physically, but mentally, so keep his mind into science and allow him to think through how to beat a villain (even regroup at times), when physical attributes just won't cut it. Give him his ability to create "mechanical webshooters" and understand chemicals through being a chemistry genius. I want people to see in Peter why Spider-Man is such a formidable opponent.

I don't want Spider-Man written for children, period, it's the first mistake most comic book directors make with their film. Villains such as Otto Octavius, Norman Osborn, Curt Connors, should have intelligent and meaningful dialogue that resonates, but goes completely over children's heads. Keep only villains that actually have a connection to Peter in the comic books visible on film.

Most importantly, a hero is only as good as his villain(s), screw up on the villains and that could easily ruin the entire movie. Spider-Man films should have a tone where any of Spidey's villains can be represented at their most deadliest. Even a character like CARNAGE. This way, you're able adapt story arcs and lift certain situations without watering them down, in fact, you would be able to enhance and make it stronger than it's presented in the comics.

So yes, High School and a Serious Tone can go together if it's written with maturity and intelligence, and not afraid of some PG-13 grit.

 

[TheSlag]

A serious toned Spider-Man, where the banter and witty attitude is mostly, if not only, represented by Peter/Spidey. That would be a dream come true for me. A New York that is realistic, serious and isn't filled with a bunch of happy-go-lucky New Yorkers, who loves Spider-Man to death. I really miss elements where Spider-Man is despised, because some actually believe the stuff that the Daily Bugle writes. Not to mention, that he and his villains are huge property damage machines. People are never happy about that.

I'd like to see more complex villains, not villains who sound like villains from the 1940s..."we'll meet again Spider-Man!" or reciting nursery rhymes "Itsy Bitsy Spider-Man...". Dig deep into the mindset of why the villain do what he does. Which is why I love 'Kraven's Last Hunt'. Bring us some worldly villains who lie in the background, and hasn't received their gift/powers yet.

Spider-Man needs to be tested not only physically, but mentally, so keep his mind into science and allow him to think through how to beat a villain (even regroup at times), when physical attributes just won't cut it. Give him his ability to create "mechanical webshooters" and understand chemicals through being a chemistry genius. I want people to see in Peter why Spider-Man is such a formidable opponent.

I don't want Spider-Man written for children, period, it's the first mistake most comic book directors make with their film. Villains such as Otto Octavius, Norman Osborn, Curt Connors, should have intelligent and meaningful dialogue that resonates, but goes completely over children's heads. Keep only villains that actually have a connection to Peter in the comic books visible on film.

Most importantly, a hero is only as good as his villain(s), screw up on the villains and that could easily ruin the entire movie. Spider-Man films should have a tone where any of Spidey's villains can be represented at their most deadliest. Even a character like CARNAGE. This way, you're able adapt story arcs and lift certain situations without watering them down, in fact, you would be able to enhance and make it stronger than it's presented in the comics.

So yes, High School and a Serious Tone can go together if it's written with maturity and intelligence, and not afraid of some PG-13 grit.

Great points and post KAW!!

You are a "visionary" and deserve an "Oscar" IMO.

 

[©KAW]

I think so.

 

[TheSlag]

Sitting here watching Intervention from Season 1 of SSM, and man, I really like how the Season 1 ended on SSM. And it answers my question in this thread, YES, High School and Serious CAN go together.

Side Note. Kinda sad that SSM got the symbiote much BETTER than Raimi's Spider-Man did.

 

[SpeterMan3]

 

[Gunga Diner]

Setting it in High School doesn't mean that the movie is going to be "Not Another Teen Movie" with superpowers. If you play up the mundane reality of high school in a Gus Van Sant/John Hughes sort of way you can contrast that with the wonder and "Holy ****" factor of the powers that Peter gets. The simple fact that Peter isn't a grown-up or an adult, and is arguably a child, is what raises the stakes. He isn't ready for this stuff. He's too young to get these powers. He doesn't know what he's doing. High School is the most isolating experience a person goes through. Add a secret identity to that and you have some really, really fun drama. Peter has no clue how to function or feel "normal." Then that gets multiplied a billion times, and he has to find a balance and shose his loyalties for both identities.

I'm a loyal Raimi fan, but the one thing I didn't like about the first movie is that it's hard to buy Peter's youth and homelife when you have a good-looking, well-dressed twentysomething marching around a High School hallway pretending to be a loner geek. If we buy Peter's youth and isolation, the spider-powers become a much bigger deal.

Keep the stakes, spirit, and general plotting of the Ultimate series with the angst and quirky outsider-ness of the Ditko series and they should be fine.

 

[kickass]

Setting it in High School doesn't mean that the movie is going to be "Not Another Teen Movie" with superpowers. If you play up the mundane reality of high school in a Gus Van Sant/John Hughes sort of way you can contrast that with the wonder and "Holy ****" factor of the powers that Peter gets. The simple fact that Peter isn't a grown-up or an adult, and is arguably a child, is what raises the stakes. He isn't ready for this stuff. He's too young to get these powers. He doesn't know what he's doing. High School is the most isolating experience a person goes through. Add a secret identity to that and you have some really, really fun drama. Peter has no clue how to function or feel "normal." Then that gets multiplied a billion times, and he has to find a balance and shose his loyalties for both identities.

I'm a loyal Raimi fan, but the one thing I didn't like about the first movie is that it's hard to buy Peter's youth and homelife when you have a good-looking, well-dressed twentysomething marching around a High School hallway pretending to be a loner geek. If we buy Peter's youth and isolation, the spider-powers become a much bigger deal.

Keep the stakes, spirit, and general plotting of the Ultimate series with the angst and quirky outsider-ness of the Ditko series and they should be fine.

fantastic. and the spidey secret can be a metephor for so many other things

 

[Ajendo]

Setting it in High School doesn't mean that the movie is going to be "Not Another Teen Movie" with superpowers. If you play up the mundane reality of high school in a Gus Van Sant/John Hughes sort of way you can contrast that with the wonder and "Holy ****" factor of the powers that Peter gets. The simple fact that Peter isn't a grown-up or an adult, and is arguably a child, is what raises the stakes. He isn't ready for this stuff. He's too young to get these powers. He doesn't know what he's doing. High School is the most isolating experience a person goes through. Add a secret identity to that and you have some really, really fun drama. Peter has no clue how to function or feel "normal." Then that gets multiplied a billion times, and he has to find a balance and shose his loyalties for both identities.

I'm a loyal Raimi fan, but the one thing I didn't like about the first movie is that it's hard to buy Peter's youth and homelife when you have a good-looking, well-dressed twentysomething marching around a High School hallway pretending to be a loner geek. If we buy Peter's youth and isolation, the spider-powers become a much bigger deal.

Keep the stakes, spirit, and general plotting of the Ultimate series with the angst and quirky outsider-ness of the Ditko series and they should be fine.

Eh? Maguire isn't all THAT good looking and besides, Peter isn't some ugly-looking high school punk nor is he anywhere lookswise, in the league of those losers you find on that show, "beauty and the geek". Secondly, well dressed?? Um Peter wasn't exactly marching around wearing Tom Ford or Luis Vuitton. He was wearing normal, every day casual clothes. Were you expecting him to be wearing rags barely covering his back or something?

Lol, with all the problems that plagued spider-man 1, these are where you find fault with the movie? Incredible.

 

[Anwar]

Peter was only ever even REMOTELY "ugly" when Steve Ditko was the artist (and even then he just looked skinny and wore big glasses). After John Romita became the artist Peter became pretty good looking.

What was weird in the movies was that Harry wasn't a more popular guy at school when he looked like James Franco .

 

[david icke]

What was weird in the movies was that Harry wasn't a more popular guy at school when he looked like James Franco .

I always got the impression in Spider-man1 that Harry had just recently joined the school, and had became friends with Pete as he was struggling with Science, which he needed to pass in order to graduate, and that was his prime concern in order to gain the approval of his father.
The fact he was friends with Pete would make him more of an outcast, and the fact he was a 'rich kid' might lead to to him being subject to jealousy. His looks might have made him popular with the girls, and he did bag MJ once she fell out with Flash, but guys could just as easily turn on a good looking guy because they were jealous. Or, the good looking guy could shun their friendship, like Harry might have done, because being friends with them would have put the kibosh on his friendship with Pete , which was more important.
and, Harry seemed to genuinely like Pete of course, getting to know him through the tutoring.
Anyway, the high school politics/friendships in SM1 always made perfect sense to me, in the way they were presented.

In SM3, they kind of ret-conned the notion that Harry had just joined the school, and made out he, Pete and Mj had been at school together for years. But, this did not seem the case with the allusions to Harry flunking out of school after school, the teacher giving Harry a lecture on how this school doesn't tolerate what his previous might have, Harry not wanting to give off a bad 'first impression' with the Rolls Royce dropping him off etc.
But they did not clearly state Harry had just joined, so the ret-con was not really a ret-con, like Ben's killer being changed. But it was, kind of.