Comics Can Spider-Man be saved?

Can Spider-Man be saved?

  • Yes!

  • No!

  • Undecided.


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Flonk said:
See, it was a joke. because lines at the DMV are so long. I'm like a hack stand up comedian. White guys are like this, but black guys are like this.

For that, you may sit at our table at lunchtime.

They're still gonna rip on you for your flawed notions of quality, and I'll do worse, but you've got spirit. That annoys me, but in a good way.

:wolverine
 
Flonk said:
I don't know the issue off the top of my head. I think it was the last issue of ASM. I'll find it for you later. And According to JMS, Peter borrowed Tony's car, and that's the car that you saw Peter driving before. Peter has no car, thus the need to borrow one.

So...I guess in part one of "Skin Deep", when Peter is going into all kinds of detail about his car and the mess it is, that doesn't count? Then, in the most recent issue of Amazing, suddenly, JMS says that Peter doesn't have a car? Dammit....JMS needs to make up his mind and quit making up history.
 
Flonk said:
Sorry if I like comics. My fault I guess. I have to get to work, but I'll come back later with a whole list of bad Marvel ideas. (Top of that list, getting rid of MAX)

We finally agree on something!
MAX is by far the most under-utilized part of Marvel Comics. It was started as a way to bring in some of the Vertigo crowd, and it's ended up being just Punisher. Alias turned to Pulse....Hood was cancelled (or it didn't get a second mini, whatever), Fury was just a mini, and then Supreme Power (JMS's last crown jewel) went to Marvel Knights....just in time for the Marvel Knights line to end as well.

I don't know if Marvel just doesn't see the potential there, or it people aren't submitting enough adult-themed stories, or what. All I know is this: MAX was an idea that's time had come, and Marvel has totally squandered it.

If they move Punisher back to mainstream Marvel U, I'll drop Marvel altogether. That's one of the few consistently great Marvel books (the others being Runaways, Young Avengers, Ultimates 2, Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate X-Men, Daredevil, and Astonishing X-Men, as far as I'm concerned), and the thought of them dulling it down just depresses and angers me.
 
shinlyle said:
So...I guess in part one of "Skin Deep", when Peter is going into all kinds of detail about his car and the mess it is, that doesn't count? Then, in the most recent issue of Amazing, suddenly, JMS says that Peter doesn't have a car? Dammit....JMS needs to make up his mind and quit making up history.

Look so he makes some continuity errors, are you going to let override brilliant stories? Oh wait, he doesn't do that either. :D
 
shinlyle said:
If they move Punisher back to mainstream Marvel U, I'll drop Marvel altogether. That's one of the few consistently great Marvel books (the others being Runaways, Young Avengers, Ultimates 2, Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate X-Men, Daredevil, and Astonishing X-Men, as far as I'm concerned), and the thought of them dulling it down just depresses and angers me.

I had assumed War Journals as well as Punisher Max would continue.....and might I add to the list of consistently great Marvel Books, Captain America :)
 
WhatIfTales said:
I had assumed War Journals as well as Punisher Max would continue.....and might I add to the list of consistently great Marvel Books, Captain America :)

Cap is pretty good, from what I've read of it since Brubaker took over.

As for War Journals, I hope it'll be great, but the thought of having more than one Punisher title scares me. The overexposure of The Punisher is what led to the books sucking so badly. I'd rather have one great book than 2 so-so books. Still, I'll definitely give it a shot.
 
shinlyle said:
So...I guess in part one of "Skin Deep", when Peter is going into all kinds of detail about his car and the mess it is, that doesn't count? Then, in the most recent issue of Amazing, suddenly, JMS says that Peter doesn't have a car? Dammit....JMS needs to make up his mind and quit making up history.

Right. Flonk didn't know what scene we were talking about then. He gave JMS a pass that he wouldn't have that short a memory on something he actually added to the history.

But sorry Flonk, JMS can't even get his own short term continuity right.


BTW, great posts by Herr Logan as usual. Looks like he is getting fired up again. :)
 
dan1 said:
Right. Flonk didn't know what scene we were talking about then. He gave JMS a pass that he wouldn't have that short a memory on something he actually added to the history.

But sorry Flonk, JMS can't even get his own short term continuity right.


BTW, great posts by Herr Logan as usual. Looks like he is getting fired up again. :)

Thanks, bub. :up:

Fired up? Oh, I do believe that anyone who brings a weak case to this thread is gonna get burned.

I haven't followed stuff as closely in recent months with the crappy comics, so I'll need you guys as back-up for facts, though.

:wolverine
 
If only Superboy Prime existed in the Marvel Universe, he could Super Retcon Punch the past few years of Spidey :( .
 
A word of note to everyone.....the "REPORT BAD POST" button is to be used for reporting actual offensive or bad posts....NOT that someone has disagreed with your opinion.
 
C. Lee said:
A word of note to everyone.....the "REPORT BAD POST" button is to be used for reporting actual offensive or bad posts....NOT that someone has disagreed with your opinion.

lmao

Too funny. And sad.
 
dan1 said:
Right. Flonk didn't know what scene we were talking about then. He gave JMS a pass that he wouldn't have that short a memory on something he actually added to the history.

But sorry Flonk, JMS can't even get his own short term continuity right.


BTW, great posts by Herr Logan as usual. Looks like he is getting fired up again. :)
Fired up? Does he ever cools off? :p:)
 
Cullen said:
Fired up? Does he ever cools off? :p:)

Hey, I does cools off somestime! :(

But bad spelling and/or bad grammar fires me right back up again.

:wolverine
 
dan1 said:
BTW, great posts by Herr Logan as usual. Looks like he is getting fired up again. :)
Do you know what burns Herr Logan's ass?

A flame about 3 feet high.
 
Gah! My friend will never be safe again! Now all the trolls will be walking around with portable flamethrowers!! Dammit! :eek:

not enough sleep...:o
 
Herr Logan said:
Oh sure, leave me to do the heavy lifting. :p

Thanks, bub. :up:

Seriously, I read 'Midnight Nation' because I actually liked JMS' work on Spider-Man to some degree, even when he was messing around with that Totem nonsense. I've always hated that cryptic nonsense, and after watching several years of Buffy (which hardly paid off toward the end, if any of you have seen the latter two horrible seasons), I had my fill of "Chosen Ones" and "destinies" and "mythic origins." If I was reading Thor, I sure as hell wouldn't complain about any of that. Why, that would be sort of like saying, "I love Spider-Man, but I never liked the idea of mechanical web-shooters, so I'm glad the comics now match the movie," which is heresy, pure and simple, but I'm talking about Spider-Man. He's an urban vigilante, and while the White Tiger can pull of both the mystical angle and the street-level ass-kicking, Spider-Man wasn't meant for that. If he was, don't you think Steve Ditko, the creator of Doctor freakin' Strange, would have plotted something to that effect during his run?? .
He's a science hero, which really means he gained his power through pseudo-scientific means. Yes, magic and science aren't always mutually exclusive, but by all that is crunchy and lightly salted, this is not a character for whom that connection should be explored. Hell, as far as I'm concerned, the whole thing was a vehicle through which JMS could plug Dr. Strange's new book several times, which is basically what he did.

Anyway, I did like JMS a little early in his run, because the dialogue was funny and Spider-Man was shown interacting with people on the street again, eating bagels and other stuff that made him seem back in his element. Nice fake-out, Straczinsky! I never saw any of that other bull$hit coming, and I'm a pessimist, so bra-****ing-vo!
But my nasty little opinions don't count, because I judged Gwen a **** (which she very much is, the way that hack wrote her), which means I'm buying into the whole "Madonna/****e" complex. Right, because I, being the opinionated and universally judgmental person that I am (that's not sarcasm folks, that's my admitting the obvious and telling you for future reference that it's not an insult when you call me that, it just means you're awake and can tap the right keys!), wouldn't have said essentially the same thing about Peter if he had cheated on her, or MJ, or anyone else, right? Maybe I'd have used the word "****," maybe I'd just say he was a scumbag with the same meaning behind it. I sure as hell said that about Foggy Nelson when he cheated on Liz Osborn in the Daredevil story 'Guardian Devil!" I qualified it as ambiguous, however, since there were drugs involved. If Daredevil can be drugged into flying into a rage whenever someone makes positive remarks about a particular baby, then Foggy can be drugged into throwing a hump to a smokin' hot client. In general, without such complications, I don't give free passes for infidelity. Hell, I was even pissed off at Wolverine when I realized he was still engaged to Mariko when he slept with anyone from crimelord Tyger Tiger to super-terrorist Mystique. Still not sure how to feel about that, because Mariko's culture and honor system aren't mine, so maybe she'd have been okay with it. Another complication. But there was nothing complicated at all about "Gwen" and Norman Osborn. "Magnetism" isn't drugs, and Peter isn't a Japanese matriarch who lives according to Bushido.

Point is, JMS's "What If" version of Gwendolyne Stacy was a filthy, despicable **** for cheating on Peter with his best friend's middle-aged father, and nothing will ever change that. What can be changed is the inclusion of that bastardized version to canon. I still don't accept it. Gwen wasn't like that and never will be (unless it's that clone that's still out there), because she's dead and should have stayed in her grave undisturbed. There's another big chunk o' proof that JMS has no originality reserved for Spider-Man. Instead of bringing in an old villain and giving him a new scheme (which isn't necessarily a gloriously original idea-- depending on the new scheme-- but at least it's appropriate for a Spider-Man story), he dug up a corpse and branded her an unfaithful ****e, even if he can't understand what he did. Okay, he gave us new villains. New, one-shot villains that are either magic-based or not coming back, or do come back and are poor excuses for "arch-enemies." Morlun keeps hitting Spider-Man "harder than he's ever been hit before." Okay, well, to hell with characters like the Hulk who are supposed to be the strongest there is and have decades of character development behind them. We'll just bring in a slightly prettier version of Morbius, jack him up to the power level of a lovechild between Hulk and Thor, and have him do nothing remotely clever or exceptional. Just beat on Peter and have him eat his eyeball. You know, just like that cannibal Mauvaise (that's French for "bad," kids) did to Wolverine a few years ago. But JMS probably didn't know that. He probably never read a Wolverine comic in his life, judging from how he acts in the Avengers. Both Bendis and JMS can't seem to get that right. Or anything else at Marvel, for that matter.

Losing steam. Rant over. For now...

Here's a super-long essay with dozens of quotes (I'm not even a quarter of the way through yet, but I'm enjoying the recap and annotations) on the history or Gwen Stacy and Norman Osborn, written by our friend Gregatron, for the purpose of formally proving that 'Sins Past' never could have happened. We who know our Spider-Man comics don't need proof, of course,
but it's nice to see it laid out. Here it it:
GREAT POWER, GREATER IRRESPONSIBILITY

:wolverine

Thanks for the plug, mein Herr!
 
Gregatron said:
Thanks for the plug, mein Herr!

No problem, Greg. It's the least I could do for someone who spent so much time (and probably money as well) on battling the insidious forces of ignorance, revisionism and herd-mentality among so-called Spider-Man fans. :up:

:wolverine
 
Id just love to ring up Marvel and ask them what the hell they are doing to Spidey. I mean "If it aint broke then dont fix it" He's had his powers messed with twice now over the last few years and now they are going to "out" his identity in civil war. Why cant they just leave good things alone instead of spoiling them beyond repair?! :mad:

:unishr:
 
D-day said:
Id just love to ring up Marvel and ask them what the hell they are doing to Spidey. I mean "If it aint broke then dont fix it" He's had his powers messed with twice now over the last few years and now they are going to "out" his identity in civil war. Why cant they just leave good things alone instead of spoiling them beyond repair?! :mad:

:unishr:

A belated "Welcome to the Hype" to you. :up:

:wolverine
 
shinlyle said:
Also, for those who use the "Peter drove a motorcycle" argument, you need a different liscense to drive a motorcycle than to drive a passenger vehicle. One liscense doesn't mean you automatically get the other.

Also, how does Peter, who has almost NO money, and can web-sling anywhere he wants, justify owning a car he would BARELY use, and maintaining the taxes, tags, insurance, and not to mention the cost of parking that car in New York City every year. That's lot of money for something you don't use....assuming that car is "paid for".

Of course it's a different license. He'd have to have a Class M license for Motorcycle. But he still has a license and he could easily go get it transfered to a different class of a license.

Because I'm sure that the first thing on writers minds are, "Hey, lets do a storyline where Peter gets his drivers license!". I mean...a guy living in New York City, who can websling, using a car? :confused: Come on! Insanity! So, maybe one day we'll get that story of Peter getting his drivers license changed from motorcycle...to a car.

And as for having no money and affording a car. You must not know many poor people. They have cars...but really, really, really crappy cars...and usually no insurance and hope the cops don't see the expired tags.
 
shinlyle said:
The fact that you are referring to "recent issues" ruins your credibility even more than using the asanine phrase "neener neener". :rolleyes:

Also, according to JMS, Peter has a car...but then he needs to borrow Tony's car...so you've pretty much disproved your own case. Great job!

*cough*loser*cough*

Wow. And you had the nerve to call me condescending and arrogant.
 
SpideyInATree said:
Wow. And you had the nerve to call me condescending and arrogant.

Yes. Yes I did. :D

I just forgot to say , "Yet nowhere near as rightfully condescending or arrogant as I".
 
shinlyle said:
Yes. Yes I did. :D

I just forgot to say , "Yet nowhere near as rightfully condescending or arrogant as I".

Being arrogant is just fine and dandy, as long as you're right. :) :up:

:wolverine
 
Herr Logan said:
Being arrogant is just fine and dandy, as long as you're right. :) :up:

:wolverine


hahahahahahahahahahahahah.... brilliant.... :confused:...hahahahahahahahaha

How's it going Herry? It's been a while. :)

I hope that all is well with you, your sister, and your whole family.

:)
 
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