Comics Can Spider-Man be saved?

[Flonk]

Also, how does Peter, who has almost NO money, and can web-sling anywhere he wants, justify owning a car he would BARELY use, and maintaining the taxes, tags, insurance, and not to mention the cost of parking that car in New York City every year. That's lot of money for something you don't use....assuming that car is "paid for".

Well, in a recent issue, he thanked Tony for letting him borrow the car. So neener neener on you.

 

[Flonk]

Either way, all that Grant Morrison/Chuck Austen crap with X-Men, JMS bull$hit with Spider-Man, Brian Michael Bendis nonsense with the Avengers, etc. would be stricken from the record and those authors should be blackballed from Marvel.

Wow. Lots of hate for some very good comics.


Except Chuck Austen. I'll give you that one.

 

[Grim Goblin]

well since PAD insist on bringing back his terrible Hobgoblin 2211, I say he should be used to rectify all the recent crappy arcs in one fell swoop. Cleanly and time-efficiently. "How can he do that?" you may ask. Two magic words: Retcon bombs!

I know it's a cop-out, it's silly but dammit it does the job quickly and we can then move on.

Retcon = Happy fun times in Spider-Land again

 

[Donald Thomas]

The Movies' success really did screw up S-M comics irrevocably after all.

You can defintely stick me in the minority group, but I'd rather a Spider-Man Movie NEVER be made and have Spider-Man comics be something to be cared for.

But that's just me.

Aloha,
You can count me in that minority as well.
Spidey rules

 

[dan1]

Aloha,
You can count me in that minority as well.
Spidey rules

Right on Bro.

The comics are king in my book. The movie is fun for a whirl, but at what cost. It's depressing how the counter culture of the comic book lifestyle has been ruined by the recent editors and writers who have an agenda other than respecting the stories that preceeded them, and the excuse that makes it alright is the Movie Franchises financial success.

I think Spider-Man comics "jumped the shark" when JMS and JoeQ decided continuity was unimportant.

It's easy to say it went sour with Chapter One and the reboot, but fans and Marvel quickly realized the reboot was a mistake. They could have kept continuity intact but the decided to forego it for, god knows why.

The only way I see this being fixed is by a new Brain trust coming along that actually sees what a lot of us see, and fixes it.

 

[shinlyle]

Well, in a recent issue, he thanked Tony for letting him borrow the car. So neener neener on you.

The fact that you are referring to "recent issues" ruins your credibility even more than using the asanine phrase "neener neener".

Also, according to JMS, Peter has a car...but then he needs to borrow Tony's car...so you've pretty much disproved your own case. Great job!

*cough*loser*cough*

 

[The Joker]

Aloha,
You can count me in that minority as well.
Spidey rules

Count me in that minority too.

Funny that you guys mention it,since the first Spider-Man movie was made,the quality of the Spidey comics took a nose dive.I'm not blaming that entirely on the movies.But it may have been a factor that caused it.

And if it is,then yeah I'd rather have quality comics than no Spidey movies.

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

Is Flonk JMS?

I think Spider-Man comics "jumped the shark" when JMS and JoeQ decided continuity was unimportant.

To true... I hope they don't make him do this literally.... AAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

 

[Herr Logan]

Wow. Lots of hate for some very good comics.


Except Chuck Austen. I'll give you that one.

Welcome to the Hype, where not everyone happily eats Marvel's $hit.

 

[Herr Logan]

And yet he had a motorcycle for years.


And do you really want to see a storyline about Peter getting his drivers licence? You thought people complained about nothing happening in an issue before! Parts 3-5 would be standing in line and filling out forms.

Yeah, that's how long it would take in the current decripit age of Marvel Comics.

Back in the day,when Peter registered for college, they covered lots of standing in line and filling out forms in less than a page. Page 6 of 'Amazing Spider-Man' #31, to be exact. That was back when huge stories could be told in two or three issues, the "talking heads" actually had something to say, and worked as equal partners with good ol' fashioned superhero action.

Yeah that's right. Thank God for the Essential volumes.

 

[shinlyle]

Welcome to the Hype, where not everyone happily eats Marvel's $hit.

LOL!! My thoughts exactly! So far, I have yet to hear Flonk (almost sounds like "Flunky", doesn't it?) talk about anything Marvel has done wrong sicne Joe Q came into power....funny how that works, huh?

 

[shinlyle]

Yeah, that's how long it would take in the current decripit age of Marvel Comics.

Back in the day,when Peter registered for college, they covered lots of standing in line and filling out forms in less than a page. Page 6 of 'Amazing Spider-Man' #31, to be exact. That was back when huge stories could be told in two or three issues, the "talking heads" actually had something to say, and worked as equal partners with good ol' fashioned superhero action.

Yeah that's right. Thanks God for the Essential volumes.

You're on fire today, man!

 

[dan1]

Yeah, that's how long it would take in the current decripit age of Marvel Comics.

Back in the day,when Peter registered for college, they covered lots of standing in line and filling out forms in less than a page. Page 6 of 'Amazing Spider-Man' #31, to be exact. That was back when huge stories could be told in two or three issues, the "talking heads" actually had something to say, and worked as equal partners with good ol' fashioned superhero action.

Yeah that's right. Thanks God for the Essential volumes.

Exactly the point. Showing Peter at the DMV would have taken one page, if they wanted it to take one page.

And the other point is JMS didn't know Peter didn't drive to work, and that's the reason for the misrepresentation in the first place.

JMS is a tool.

 

[Herr Logan]

Dammit, Shin, ya done gone an' made me blush.

Thanks, man.

Post o' the year, *****es.

 

[shinlyle]

Exactly the point. Showing Peter at the DMV would have taken one page, if they wanted it to take one page.

And the other point is JMS didn't know Peter didn't drive to work, and that's the reason for the misrepresentation in the first place.

JMS is a tool.

See, that's the thing. If he knew something we didn't, I'd be fine with it. If he called us out and pointed to a story in some oft-overlooked annual from way back, then I'd be fine.

However, he's proven that continuity is his weakest point. He writes things as he percieves them to be, and he rewrites the past as he feels it should have been.

He is a tool.

 

[Herr Logan]

Exactly the point. Showing Peter at the DMV would have taken one page, if they wanted it to take one page.

And the other point is JMS didn't know Peter didn't drive to work, and that's the reason for the misrepresentation in the first place.

JMS is a tool.

Understand, I'm not lobbying for even a page that shows Peter at the DMV. I think it would be stupid if he didn't already have his license, even if he didn't have a car. I would think many, if not most New Yorkers would at least have a license, should they ever need to drive a car, or rent one on trips (like Peter did in the Diane Duane novel series).

Still, you're probably right about JMS not knowing, or at least not caring, that Peter doesn't drive to work. Hell, I'm pissed off that they had Peter working at the high school in the first place. JMS was obviously watching too much 'Boston Public' and decided to showcase-- yet again-- his profound lack of originality with regard to Spider-Man. That Totem arc? Nothing at all original there in the slightest. Yeah, I heard stories about Anansi, too. You know why I never thought of relating that concept to Spider-Man? Because I hate spiders! If I didn't hate spiders and was given the job of writing Spider-Man in an era when many fans no longer care what gets put in those comics, and I had no original ideas and didn't feel like writing a traditional Spider-Man story that fits the character... hell, I'd probably deconstruct his origins and make up some mystical bull$hit where I can dish out some of the old "Creepy Insider Taunts Confused Newcomer with Cryptic Hints" nonsense, just like JMS did!

Anyone read 'Midnight Nation'? JMS just loves him some "Creepy Insider Taunts Confused Newcomer with Cryptic Hints" nonsense. Thank God I didn't pay for it. I did read the little "note about the author," though, and it turns out JMS lived on the streets with junkies and vagabonds for a small chunk of his life, on purpose. That may explain why he had the gall to accuse true Spider-Man fans of being overly judgmental of his ****tified version of Gwen Stacy in 'Sins Past.' He comes off as (I'm not saying for a fact that he is, mind you) extremely "open-minded" and doesn't judge people for most things. What he fails to realize is that while lots of people get put in bad situations through no fault of their own, a hell of a lot of people get tossed to the curb because they didn't maintain good standards for their own behavior, or they were "accepting" of someone else who screwed them over. JMS is the last person who should be writing Spider-Man, since he doesn't even think his ****tified version of Gwen is actually responsible for anything truly wrong. Responsibility. Know the ****ing meaning of that word before you dare put pen to paper in a book that always starts off with a blurb about "power and responsibility."

 

[shinlyle]

Dammit, Shin, ya done gone an' made me blush.

Thanks, man.

Post o' the year, *****es.

Sorry, man! I didn't mean to flatter yo utoo much!

As fr the "Post of the Year".... Man...I'm pretty sure I scarred that little guy for life. He rarely posts here anymore, and when he does, he usually runs off whenever I show up. Not that it doesn't make it a little more pleasant here, being short one troll...

 

[Herr Logan]

Sorry, man! I didn't mean to flatter yo utoo much!

As fr the "Post of the Year".... Man...I'm pretty sure I scarred that little guy for life. He rarely posts here anymore, and when he does, he usually runs off whenever I show up. Not that it doesn't make it a little more pleasant here, being short one troll...

I think I've seen him around, in different forums. But he probably learned something that day.
It's a tough job, putting naive, insolent apologists in their place, but it must be done. You did what you had to, and I thank you for it.

 

[shinlyle]

Understand, I'm not lobbying for even a page that shows Peter at the DMV. I think it would be stupid if he didn't already have his license, even if he didn't have a car. I would think many, if not most New Yorkers would at least have a license, should they ever need to drive a car, or rent one on trips (like Peter did in the Diane Duane novel series).

Still, you're probably right about JMS not knowing, or at least not caring, that Peter doesn't drive to work. Hell, I'm pissed off that they had Peter working at the high school in the first place. JMS was obviously watching too much 'Boston Public' and decided to showcase-- yet again-- his profound lack of originality with regard to Spider-Man. That Totem arc? Nothing at all original there in the slightest. Yeah, I heard stories about Anansi, too. You know why I never thought of relating that concept to Spider-Man? Because I hate spiders! If I didn't hate spiders and was given the job of writing Spider-Man in an era when many fans no longer care what gets put in those comics, and I had no original ideas and didn't feel like writing a traditional Spider-Man story that fits the character... hell, I'd probably deconstruct his origins and make up some mystical bull$hit where I can dish out some of the old "Creepy Insider Taunts Confused Newcomer with Cryptic Hints" nonsense, just like JMS did!

Anyone read 'Midnight Nation'? JMS just loves him some "Creepy Insider Taunts Confused Newcomer with Cryptic Hints" nonsense. Thank God I didn't pay for it. I did read the little "note about the author," though, and it turns out JMS lived on the streets with junkies and vagabonds for a small chunk of his life, on purpose. That may explain why he had the gall to accuse true Spider-Man fans of being overly judgmental of his ****tified version of Gwen Stacy in 'Sins Past.' He comes off as (I'm not saying for a fact that he is, mind you) extremely "open-minded" and doesn't judge people for most things. What he fails to realize is that while lots of people get put in bad situations through no fault of their own, a hell of a lot of people get tossed to the curb because they didn't maintain good standards for their own behavior, or they were "accepting" of someone else who screwed them over. JMS is the last person who should be writing Spider-Man, since he doesn't even think his ****tified version of Gwen is actually responsible for anything truly wrong. Responsibility. Know the ****ing meaning of that word before you dare put pen to paper in a book that always starts off with a blurb about "power and responsibility."

Wow...I'm just gonna sit back and read your posts today, man! Well said!

 

[LarryLegend]

Excellent post Logan.

First step to saving Spider-man = firing JMS and Joey Q.

 

[Herr Logan]

Wow...I'm just gonna sit back and read your posts today, man! Well said!

Oh sure, leave me to do the heavy lifting.

Thanks, bub.

Seriously, I read 'Midnight Nation' because I actually liked JMS' work on Spider-Man to some degree, even when he was messing around with that Totem nonsense. I've always hated that cryptic nonsense, and after watching several years of Buffy (which hardly paid off toward the end, if any of you have seen the latter two horrible seasons), I had my fill of "Chosen Ones" and "destinies" and "mythic origins." If I was reading Thor, I sure as hell wouldn't complain about any of that. Why, that would be sort of like saying, "I love Spider-Man, but I never liked the idea of mechanical web-shooters, so I'm glad the comics now match the movie," which is heresy, pure and simple, but I'm talking about Spider-Man. He's an urban vigilante, and while the White Tiger can pull of both the mystical angle and the street-level ass-kicking, Spider-Man wasn't meant for that. If he was, don't you think Steve Ditko, the creator of Doctor freakin' Strange, would have plotted something to that effect during his run?? .
He's a science hero, which really means he gained his power through pseudo-scientific means. Yes, magic and science aren't always mutually exclusive, but by all that is crunchy and lightly salted, this is not a character for whom that connection should be explored. Hell, as far as I'm concerned, the whole thing was a vehicle through which JMS could plug Dr. Strange's new book several times, which is basically what he did.

Anyway, I did like JMS a little early in his run, because the dialogue was funny and Spider-Man was shown interacting with people on the street again, eating bagels and other stuff that made him seem back in his element. Nice fake-out, Straczinsky! I never saw any of that other bull$hit coming, and I'm a pessimist, so bra-****ing-vo!
But my nasty little opinions don't count, because I judged Gwen a **** (which she very much is, the way that hack wrote her), which means I'm buying into the whole "Madonna/****e" complex. Right, because I, being the opinionated and universally judgmental person that I am (that's not sarcasm folks, that's my admitting the obvious and telling you for future reference that it's not an insult when you call me that, it just means you're awake and can tap the right keys!), wouldn't have said essentially the same thing about Peter if he had cheated on her, or MJ, or anyone else, right? Maybe I'd have used the word "****," maybe I'd just say he was a scumbag with the same meaning behind it. I sure as hell said that about Foggy Nelson when he cheated on Liz Osborn in the Daredevil story 'Guardian Devil!" I qualified it as ambiguous, however, since there were drugs involved. If Daredevil can be drugged into flying into a rage whenever someone makes positive remarks about a particular baby, then Foggy can be drugged into throwing a hump to a smokin' hot client. In general, without such complications, I don't give free passes for infidelity. Hell, I was even pissed off at Wolverine when I realized he was still engaged to Mariko when he slept with anyone from crimelord Tyger Tiger to super-terrorist Mystique. Still not sure how to feel about that, because Mariko's culture and honor system aren't mine, so maybe she'd have been okay with it. Another complication. But there was nothing complicated at all about "Gwen" and Norman Osborn. "Magnetism" isn't drugs, and Peter isn't a Japanese matriarch who lives according to Bushido.

Point is, JMS's "What If" version of Gwendolyne Stacy was a filthy, despicable **** for cheating on Peter with his best friend's middle-aged father, and nothing will ever change that. What can be changed is the inclusion of that bastardized version to canon. I still don't accept it. Gwen wasn't like that and never will be (unless it's that clone that's still out there), because she's dead and should have stayed in her grave undisturbed. There's another big chunk o' proof that JMS has no originality reserved for Spider-Man. Instead of bringing in an old villain and giving him a new scheme (which isn't necessarily a gloriously original idea-- depending on the new scheme-- but at least it's appropriate for a Spider-Man story), he dug up a corpse and branded her an unfaithful ****e, even if he can't understand what he did. Okay, he gave us new villains. New, one-shot villains that are either magic-based or not coming back, or do come back and are poor excuses for "arch-enemies." Morlun keeps hitting Spider-Man "harder than he's ever been hit before." Okay, well, to hell with characters like the Hulk who are supposed to be the strongest there is and have decades of character development behind them. We'll just bring in a slightly prettier version of Morbius, jack him up to the power level of a lovechild between Hulk and Thor, and have him do nothing remotely clever or exceptional. Just beat on Peter and have him eat his eyeball. You know, just like that cannibal Mauvaise (that's French for "bad," kids) did to Wolverine a few years ago. But JMS probably didn't know that. He probably never read a Wolverine comic in his life, judging from how he acts in the Avengers. Both Bendis and JMS can't seem to get that right. Or anything else at Marvel, for that matter.

Losing steam. Rant over. For now...

Here's a super-long essay with dozens of quotes (I'm not even a quarter of the way through yet, but I'm enjoying the recap and annotations) on the history or Gwen Stacy and Norman Osborn, written by our friend Gregatron, for the purpose of formally proving that 'Sins Past' never could have happened. We who know our Spider-Man comics don't need proof, of course,
but it's nice to see it laid out. Here it it:
GREAT POWER, GREATER IRRESPONSIBILITY

 

[Flonk]

The fact that you are referring to "recent issues" ruins your credibility even more than using the asanine phrase "neener neener".

Also, according to JMS, Peter has a car...but then he needs to borrow Tony's car...so you've pretty much disproved your own case. Great job!

I don't know the issue off the top of my head. I think it was the last issue of ASM. I'll find it for you later. And According to JMS, Peter borrowed Tony's car, and that's the car that you saw Peter driving before. Peter has no car, thus the need to borrow one.

 

[Herr Logan]

Excellent post Logan.

First step to saving Spider-man = firing JMS and Joey Q.

Thank you kindly.

 

[Flonk]

Yeah, that's how long it would take in the current decripit age of Marvel Comics.

Back in the day,when Peter registered for college, they covered lots of standing in line and filling out forms in less than a page. Page 6 of 'Amazing Spider-Man' #31, to be exact. That was back when huge stories could be told in two or three issues, the "talking heads" actually had something to say, and worked as equal partners with good ol' fashioned superhero action.

Yeah that's right. Thank God for the Essential volumes.

See, it was a joke. because lines at the DMV are so long. I'm like a hack stand up comedian. White guys are like this, but black guys are like this.

 

[Flonk]

LOL!! My thoughts exactly! So far, I have yet to hear Flonk (almost sounds like "Flunky", doesn't it?) talk about anything Marvel has done wrong sicne Joe Q came into power....funny how that works, huh?

Sorry if I like comics. My fault I guess. I have to get to work, but I'll come back later with a whole list of bad Marvel ideas. (Top of that list, getting rid of MAX)