MCU Fight: Spider-Man Vs. Captain America

[jaqua99]

Does spiderman have super human durability? He hit that metal hard enough to dent it. Logic says that's a serious spine injury.

 

[BigThor]

Does spiderman have super human durability? He hit that metal hard enough to dent it. Logic says that's a serious spine injury.

Yes he does.

 

[Batmannerism]

Yes he does.

Well, to catch a moving car or pull off some of his strength feats ( e.g. holding the ferry together) he would have to be super durable, otherwise his muscles would explode or get torn to shreds.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

Any case of super strength must be combined with super durability for the above reason. Otherwise the body would tear itself apart.

 

[BigThor]

Yep superhuman strength has to come with superhuman durability.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I think you guys talked me into changing my vote to Cap. The MCU versions are pretty close in strength...while Cap is 10x the trained fighter.

 

[The Cat-Man]

Gonna have to go with Spider-Man on this one

 

[Stormborn]

Long story short after a few more films I imagine Spidey would win this but for now he's still a rookie that hasn't mastered his powers and this fight's going to end the same way it did in Civil War. MCU Cap has a huge advantage in skill and - unlike in the comics - he isn't that far behind Peter when it comes to strength/agility.

If this were the Maguire, Garfield, PS4 or 616 version of Spider-Man, then it would be a very different story.

 

[Marvel united]

Why are people still calling Peter a novice? He's been Spider-Man for 2 years now and has as much as experience as Stark did in IM2 and Strange in IW.

He's not a rookie anymore and I think he takes Cap. His performance IW was a vast improvement over the rookie in CW/HC

 

[BigThor]

Why are people still calling Peter a novice? He's been Spider-Man for 2 years now and has as much as experience as Stark did in IM2 and Strange in IW.

He's not a rookie anymore and I think he takes Cap. His performance IW was a vast improvement over the rookie in CW/HC

I agree, he's been Spider-Man too long to be still called a rookie at this point plus he has the Iron Spider suit now.

 

[Stormborn]

Why are people still calling Peter a novice? He's been Spider-Man for 2 years now and has as much as experience as Stark did in IM2 and Strange in IW.

He's not a rookie anymore and I think he takes Cap. His performance IW was a vast improvement over the rookie in CW/HC

I'm going to keep calling him a rookie until he gets more development. He's still in his teens, he's only fought one villain solo and he lost repeatedly, we've barely seen him web swing or use his spider-sense and Giant Man took him out accidentally. In Infinity War he probably had improved a bit but Star Lord beat him easily, Cull Obsidian tagged him easily, and even with help from magic portals he was too slow/predictable against Thanos. Compared to other versions of the character that are more used to their powers, can take on multiple supervillains, dodge close range machine gun fire and fight with skill/use genius science skills to find ways to win he's sub-par.

He might technically have been Spider-Man for two years but he's presumably mostly fought street level crime and hasn't had to push himself so his experience is still limited. Right now, he's way weaker than the Maguire/Garfield versions were in their second films and not even close to the comic versions of teenage Peter.

And then you've got to factor in that Cap went easy on him last time (in Tony's words "if Cap wanted to lay you out, he would've") and that unlike 616 Cap, MCU Cap is a full on superhuman rather than just peak human. So not only is MCU Cap far more skilled than MCU Spidey, he's also not that far behind when it comes to speed/strength/agility and far more used to his powers.

 

[Marvel united]

I'm going to keep calling him a rookie until he gets more development. He's still in his teens, he's only fought one villain solo and he lost repeatedly, we've barely seen him web swing or use his spider-sense, Giant Man took him out accidentally, Star Lord beat him easily and even with Doctor Strange's help and his speed/agility Thanos easily tagged him. Compared to other versions of the character that are more used to their powers, can take on multiple supervillains, dodge close range machine gun fire and fight with skill/use his science genius to find ways to win he's sub-par.

He might technically have been Spider-Man for two years but he's presumably mostly fought street level crime so it doesn't show. Right now, he's way weaker than the Maguire/Garfield version were in their second films and not even close to the comic versions of teenage Peter.

And then you've got to factor in that unlike 616 Cap, MCU Cap is a full on superhuman rather than just peak human. Not only is MCU Cap far more skilled than MCU Spidey, he's also in the same league when it comes to strength/speed/agility.

He also beat Vulture, Shocker and a bunch of thugs with Chitauri weapons. He held his own against Thanos and tagged him multiple times. This version of Spider-Man has the greatest feats of any of the previous versions, not sure what you mean by him being weaker than Maguire and Garfield.. At this point, Holland would stomp the Garfield version of Spider-Man at least. He WAS swinging through Manhattan in Infinity War, his fear of heights is gone. He only lost to Starlord because he had alien technology. Going by that line of reasoning, we could call Drax a rookie too because Stark took him down and Starlord roughed Stark up too. Peter wasn't the only one getting tagged in that fight. Peter has clearly mastered his abilities by Infinity War and despite the fact that he got chokeslammed by Thanos, he took multiple hits from Thanos and kept fighting. Thanos knocked Cap out with one punch.

2018- Spider-Man takes Cap in a close fight.

 

[Stormborn]

He also beat Vulture, Shocker and a bunch of thugs with Chitauri weapons. He held his own against Thanos and tagged him multiple times. This version of Spider-Man has the greatest feats of any of the previous versions, not sure what you mean by him being weaker than Maguire and Garfield.. At this point, Holland would stomp the Garfield version of Spider-Man at least. He WAS swinging through Manhattan in Infinity War, his fear of heights is gone. He only lost to Starlord because he had alien technology. Going by that line of reasoning, we could call Drax a rookie too because Stark took him down and Starlord roughed Stark up too. Peter wasn't the only one getting tagged in that fight. Peter has clearly mastered his abilities by Infinity War and despite the fact that he got chokeslammed by Thanos, he took multiple hits from Thanos and kept fighting. Thanos knocked Cap out with one punch.

2018- Spider-Man takes Cap in a close fight.

He needed help from Doctor Strange's portals to land a hit on Thanos and even then, Thanos got hold of him fairly easily. Compared to Cap, who fought Thanos solo head on, dodged his grab, landed three hits and then ultimately lost because he had to keep still to try and restrain him from using the gauntlet it seems inferior to me.

And then there's the rest of his track record.

• He lost to Vulture, repeatedly, even in the finale he only 'won' because Vulture's suit was damaged by the plane crash.
• Shocker got the drop on him and was about to kill him if Ned hadn't shown up.
• After his Empire Strikes Back plan worked he lost focus and was one shotted even though Giant Man wasn't even trying to hit him.
• Cull Obsidian was able to grab and rag doll him twice.
• He freaked out and spent the first few seconds of the fight acting like a scared kid when he saw Mantis
  
• Star Lord tagged him with bolas, a throwing weapon so old the Incas used them (yes they were electrified but that's still just as easy to dodge).
• Even the thugs robbing the bank tagged him twice with their chitauri weapons, blew up the neighbouring shop because he let the fight get out of control and then got away.
• Even after he'd seen the Chitauri weapons get out of control in the bank heist he let the exact same thing happen on the ferry.

Obviously he's still Spider-Man, he can web-sling (although we haven't seen it much yet and he got tagged by Maw mid swing), he's agile, he's got some impressive strength feats, his durability's impressive (although we only know that because he gets tagged so often), and he's on course to be far stronger than Cap/Panther etc by the time he's an adult. But when it comes to skill, making use of his powers (especially his spider-sense), and staying focused he's just not there yet.

He could give Garfield or Maguire from their first films a decent fight but after that they're out of MCU Spidey's league when it comes to speed/agility/spider-sense.

I don't think MCU Spidey has anything comparable to these bullet time speed/reaction feats from the Garfield Spidey:
Simultaneously dodging electricity, catching a cop car and saving two bystanders from electrocution using one webshooter
Dodging repeat electric strikes from electro.
Casually dodging machine gun fire and even in his first film, dodging pistol fire from feet away.

and the competence shown in Garfield's fights vs Electro/Rhino/Goblin and Maguire's fights vs Ock/Sandman/Venom is in a different league to what we've seen from MCU Spidey so far.

He's just not at that level yet but I hope that since they cast Holland so young MCU Spidey will have many more films and he'll get there. By the time we're seeing MCU Spidey go to college/become an adult he should be above Cap and comparable to the other film versions of Spidey.

 

[Batmannerism]

He needed help from Doctor Strange's portals to land a hit on Thanos and even then, Thanos got hold of him fairly easily. Compared to Cap, who fought Thanos solo head on, dodged his grab, landed three hits and then ultimately lost because he had to keep still to try and restrain him from using the gauntlet it seems inferior to me.

And then there's the rest of his track record.

• He lost to Vulture, repeatedly, even in the finale he only 'won' because Vulture's suit was damaged by the plane crash.
• Shocker got the drop on him and was about to kill him if Ned hadn't shown up.
• After his Empire Strikes Back plan worked he lost focus and was one shotted even though Giant Man wasn't even trying to hit him.
• Cull Obsidian was able to grab and rag doll him twice.
• He freaked out and spent the first few seconds of the fight acting like a scared kid when he saw Mantis
  
• Star Lord tagged him with bolas, a throwing weapon so old the Incas used them (yes they were electrified but that's still just as easy to dodge).
• Even the thugs robbing the bank tagged him twice with their chitauri weapons, blew up the neighbouring shop because he let the fight get out of control and then got away.
• Even after he'd seen the Chitauri weapons get out of control in the bank heist he let the exact same thing happen on the ferry.

Obviously he's still Spider-Man, he can web-sling (although we haven't seen it much yet and he got tagged by Maw mid swing), he's agile, he's got some impressive strength feats, his durability's impressive (although we only know that because he gets tagged so often), and he's on course to be far stronger than Cap/Panther etc by the time he's an adult. But when it comes to skill, making use of his powers (especially his spider-sense), and staying focused he's just not there yet.

He could give Garfield or Maguire from their first films a decent fight but after that they're out of MCU Spidey's league when it comes to speed/agility/spider-sense.

I don't think MCU Spidey has anything comparable to these bullet time speed/reaction feats from the Garfield Spidey:
Simultaneously dodging electricity, catching a cop car and saving two bystanders from electrocution using one webshooter
Dodging repeat electric strikes from electro.
Casually dodging machine gun fire and even in his first film, dodging pistol fire from feet away.

and the competence shown in Garfield's fights vs Electro/Rhino/Goblin and Maguire's fights vs Ock/Sandman/Venom is in a different league to what we've seen from MCU Spidey so far.

He's just not at that level yet but I hope that since they cast Holland so young MCU Spidey will have many more films and he'll get there. By the time we're seeing MCU Spidey go to college/become an adult he should be above Cap and comparable to the other film versions of Spidey.

Agreed. And really glad someone took the time to point out all those details. Maguire has some impressive feats fighting Green Goblin, Sandman, Doc Ock and Venom, Garfield held his own against a pretty scary version of the Lizard. I suspect MCU Spidey would not have fared so well.

Star Lord took out MCU Spidey without doing anything particularly extraordinary - let's face it MCU Spidey really is just a kid, and he screws up. Neither prior movie Spidey made a total mess of things the way MCU Spidey did on the ferry and atm robbery - and he's reliant on the Stark tech suit in a way neither prior Spidey relied on tech to solve their problems.

He only captured Vulture because the Vulture suit was badly damaged and about to self destruct.

But tbh I think his screw ups and fallibility actually make him a better character than either Maguire or Garfield, and more believable that he's just a kid, which is what I like about him - he's relatable.

Tom Holland is definitely my favourite Spider Man !

 

[Stormborn]

Agreed. And really glad someone took the time to point out all those details. Maguire has some impressive feats fighting Green Goblin, Sandman, Doc Ock and Venom, Garfield held his own against a pretty scary version of the Lizard. I suspect MCU Spidey would not have fared so well.

Star Lord took out MCU Spidey without doing anything particularly extraordinary - let's face it MCU Spidey really is just a kid, and he screws up. Neither prior movie Spidey made a total mess of things the way MCU Spidey did on the ferry and atm robbery - and he's reliant on the Stark tech suit in a way neither prior Spidey relied on tech to solve their problems.

He only captured Vulture because the Vulture suit was badly damaged and about to self destruct.

But tbh I think his screw ups and fallibility actually make him a better character than either Maguire or Garfield, and more believable that he's just a kid, which is what I like about him - he's relatable.

Tom Holland is definitely my favourite Spider Man !

Thanks! I totally agree Spider-Man - particularly in his early years - isn't meant to be a hyper competent Batman style vigilante who's always in control of the situation. He's meant to have amazing powers/science genius balanced by having to learn how to fight on the job, pulling his punches, teenage naivety and Parker luck. Being a less competent hero than the Maguire/Garfield versions doesn't automatically mean worse films but I don't think the MCU has quite got the balance right yet. Homecoming having him lose control of every situation, lose every fight, get tagged by everyone (including street thugs) and survive mostly through a combination of dumb luck, durability and other heroes/his Stark suit saving him was a bit much for me. It was obviously an intentional choice by the writers to make him contrast with the older/experienced Avengers but they laid it on a bit too thick.

My favourite Spider-Man is the Bendis/Bagley Ultimate comics version of Peter, probably always will be. As for adaptations, I'd say the Spectacular Spider-Man show and Insomniac's PS4 game both do a way better job than any of the films.

There's a great video on what the films should learn from the Insomniac game if anyone's interested:

I don't think any of the films have quite nailed it yet.

• I loved the Maguire/Raimi films when I was a kid but looking back, they're pretty campy, and Maguire's acting wasn't the best.
• Garfield was a great choice to play Peter for the reboot (although he should've been playing a college age Peter, not a high schooler), they surrounded him with a good cast (Stone/Field/Sheen etc) and did a great job with the effects/choreographing the fights but the writing lets it all down, especially in the sequel.
• Holland himself is great, on par with Garfield but actually the right age for a high schooler. The writing is very solid so far but they're missing the traditional supporting cast (no Gwen/MJ/Harry, no mention of Uncle Ben, Aunt May's pretty much a background character), they've rushed to tie him into the rest of the MCU at the expense of him feeling like a hero in his own right, and they've made him a little too incompetent/in over his head for my tastes.

 

[BigThor]

Holland himself is great, on par with Garfield but actually the right age for a high schooler. The writing is very solid so far but they're missing the traditional supporting cast (no Gwen/MJ/Harry, no mention of Uncle Ben, Aunt May's pretty much a background character), they've rushed to tie him into the rest of the MCU at the expense of him feeling like a hero in his own right, and they've made him a little too incompetent/in over his head for my tastes.

I agree, he was definitely rushed to be a part of The Avengers as with a lot of the other main heroes really (Thor, Captain America, Black Panther, Doctor Strange etc.). That is one of the downsides of the big "shared universe" concept, it makes everyone feel a little less important and interchangable.

 

[Stormborn]

I agree, he was definitely rushed to be a part of The Avengers as with a lot of the other main heroes really (Thor, Captain America, Black Panther, Doctor Strange etc.). That is one of the downsides of the big "shared universe" concept, it makes everyone feel a little less important and interchangable.

I know what you mean about the others but with Spider-Man it's far more extreme. Every other hero's solo film establishes them as capable heroes in their own right, Homecoming doesn't do that far Spider-Man.

He spends his first solo film being mentored/saved by Iron Man and the suit Iron Man gave him rather than feeling like a hero in his own right that can take care of himself/defeat his own villains. It gives him a borderline sidekick vibe and even in the finale when Stark cuts Peter off and takes the suit away, Peter doesn't get to prove himself. First, he takes on Shocker and loses but gets saved by Ned. Then he takes on Vulture and loses, but gets lucky because Vulture's suit was damaged in the plane crash.

 

[BigThor]

I know what you mean about the others but with Spider-Man it's far more extreme. Every other hero's solo film establishes them as capable heroes in their own right, Homecoming doesn't do that far Spider-Man.

He spends his first solo film being mentored/saved by Iron Man and the suit Iron Man gave him rather than feeling like a hero in his own right that can take care of himself/defeat his own villains. It gives him a borderline sidekick vibe and even in the finale when Stark cuts Peter off and takes the suit away, Peter doesn't get to prove himself. First, he takes on Shocker and loses but gets saved by Ned. Then he takes on Vulture and loses, but gets lucky because Vulture's suit was damaged in the plane crash.

Yeah Spider-Man definitely got it worse than the others in that regard.