Superman Returns Can Superman Be Saved?

People who review movies are no differant than you and I. They make a living out of reviewing films and good luck to them. But ................. it is still there sole opinion..........and opinions vary. Whether there writing hits a nerve or hits the spot for you, I for one never pay much attention to them. I would love a dollar for the many films I have seen and loved,that got panned by many reviewers. Im not interested in whether it makes a buck or two. Seeing what I have seen so far in the trailers alone virtually guarentees my thumbs up. I knew than when Singer started on this, that it wouldn't end up like it could of when Burton was at the helm. The guy has.......... I believe........ a faithful approach to the film. The suit may not please others, Brandon may not be your pick etc, but all in all, I have a feeling you guys are gunna love it. Be cool
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Herc Destin said:
People who review movies are no differant than you and I. They make a living out of reviewing films and good luck to them. But ................. it is still there sole opinion..........and opinions vary. Whether there writing hits a nerve or hits the spot for you, I for one never pay much attention to them. I would love a dollar for the many films I have seen and loved,that got panned by many reviewers. Im not interested in whether it makes a buck or two. Seeing what I have seen so far in the trailers alone virtually guarentees my thumbs up. I knew than when Singer started on this, that it wouldn't end up like it could of when Burton was at the helm. The guy has.......... I believe........ a faithful approach to the film. The suit may not please others, Brandon may not be your pick etc, but all in all, I have a feeling you guys are gunna love it. Be cool
.

The review/essay isn't about whether or not you or I are going to like it. We're Superman fans. We all will enjoy it on some level.
 
StarvingArtist said:
The review/essay isn't about whether or not you or I are going to like it. We're Superman fans. We all will enjoy it on some level.

Yes we are indeed.
 
StarvingArtist said:
I completely disagree, Burton's movie was also quite revolutionary.
He probably meant that he "got it wrong" in terms of character's origin. Burton, while he made a visually stunning film, didn't seem to care to tell the proper Batman origin - which resulted in a guy called 'Jack Napier' who would later become known as the Joker killing young Bruce's parents. That had to be retconned/rebooted sooner or later, thus Batman Begins. Donner essentially got the Supes origin right.
 
exactly.....as they say..."why reinvent the wheel?"
 
You know what, Im going to again offer my opinion here, but don't come back at me with that " you haven't seen the movie yet " arguement. You know damn well that when you read spoilers and characterizations, look at pics, and watch trailers, you make a damn judgement on how that film is going to be. Just because we like Superman shouldn't make it any different. You can usually get a damn good idea on a film before it's in theaters.

Singer took the wrong approach with this film, a SEQUEL to a film almost 30 years old. Im with Game, this "requel" crap is a f^cking copout excuse that wankers on this board use. You know, Id like to say that it doesn't suprise me that Singer took this approach with the movie, and he is a good director don't get me wrong. His X-men was perfect, and he was perfect for it being a gay man, and we all know that being gay is genetic, much like mutation. Plus he didn't have alot of money to work with, which put him in the corner of making it a character driven film. Great. Singer is a good director, seems like a good guy as well, but he is no visionary like say Peter Jackson. A visionary wouldn't make a sequel to a film almost 30 years old just because he loved it as a child. Peter Jackson loved Kong as a child as well, but he retold the story of Kong, not made some 'requel" where they go back to the island 72 years later. Singer SHOULD have made his own, naturalized origin story, much like Batman Begins. Don't do what Abrams was going to do, but do your own thing. It is obvious that Singer has no love for anything Superman outside of the Donner film or the Fleischer serials, which are even more dated that Donner's film. And make no mistake, Donner's film is dated. And I don't care what that article said about how great it is, that film could be beaten by a better Superman film. Singer should have strived to achieve more than Donner's film.

And I love Kevin Spacey, but things like "Wrong", krryypptoonniteee, dancing around on the boat like an idiot....they scream camp humor. I know all you pyschiatrists here on the board think that makes him "unstable", but do you think a casual movie goer is going to think that. Do you honestly think that a casual movie goer is going to sit there with his little popcorn, his biggie drink, his sour patch kids, and say, wow that M-Fer is one psychotic dude. No, he is going to say, Gene Hackman, who's Lex sucked by the way. The "now fly" scene and the stabbing are great, but thats it. And the fact that he has a bimbo girlfriend and a goon squad reek of rehash.

Bottom Line, making a SEQUEL to the 78 film instead of doing your own, creative, visionary-like movie was a bad move. You rebuild the wheel because the wheel is old.
 
this article is just ridiculous. Bryan Singer has stated numerous times that this movie is not meant to be a direct sequel and that he his using the first two movies as "vague history". This is a smart idea, in my opinion. EVERYONE knows the origin story of Superman. Some of my friends were complaining about Superman Returns only because they thought it was going to do the origin story again. When I told them it wasn't, they seemed a LOT more interested in going to see the movie. Bryan Singer made a very intelligent choice in that matter.

Secondly, he has Richard Donner's blessing. I'm sure Singer knows all the challenges he has to face and all the expectations. The one thing he understands is the character of Superman. I'm almost positive that this movie has potential to be just as good as Superman the Movie, if not...better. We may see an interpretation of the character more realistic and better than any incarnation we've seen before. Singer is not kidding around, he actually "gets" Superman.

AT the very least...it will be better than Superman III and IV and then we've got a better "sequel" to Superman II than we would have had before. It seems, no matter what, people will always find something to complain about.
 
IKnowSomeJudo said:
He probably meant that he "got it wrong" in terms of character's origin. Burton, while he made a visually stunning film, didn't seem to care to tell the proper Batman origin - which resulted in a guy called 'Jack Napier' who would later become known as the Joker killing young Bruce's parents. That had to be retconned/rebooted sooner or later, thus Batman Begins. Donner essentially got the Supes origin right.


Yes, thank you! There were many aspects of Burton's first Batman film that I liked (the second was a waste, IMO) but making the Joker the guy who killed Batman's parents not only was a silly idea (gee, there's some crazed lunatic threatening the city... wouldn't it be convenient if he was the one you want revenge on for killing your family?) but it also made less-informed people think that it was canon. I heard more than one person complain about Batman Begins because they thought the Joker killed Batman's parents.
 
Man_of_Steel said:
this article is just ridiculous. Bryan Singer has stated numerous times that this movie is not meant to be a direct sequel and that he his using the first two movies as "vague history". This is a smart idea, in my opinion. EVERYONE knows the origin story of Superman. Some of my friends were complaining about Superman Returns only because they thought it was going to do the origin story again. When I told them it wasn't, they seemed a LOT more interested in going to see the movie. Bryan Singer made a very intelligent choice in that matter.

Secondly, he has Richard Donner's blessing. I'm sure Singer knows all the challenges he has to face and all the expectations. The one thing he understands is the character of Superman. I'm almost positive that this movie has potential to be just as good as Superman the Movie, if not...better. We may see an interpretation of the character more realistic and better than any incarnation we've seen before. Singer is not kidding around, he actually "gets" Superman.

AT the very least...it will be better than Superman III and IV and then we've got a better "sequel" to Superman II than we would have had before. It seems, no matter what, people will always find something to complain about.

I think people are completely missing the point of the review/essay.
 
Man_of_Steel said:
I understand the point, it's just somewhat...misguided.

No, I disagree with your assessment. The article isn't about whether or not Singer "gets" Superman at all. It's about the rejuvenation of novelty. According to the article it would take a lot more then fancy visual effects and engaging storytelling for SR to wield the same impact that Donner's did, and the reviewer/writer examines why.

No matter how faithful, action packed, or great the story is, according to the article, the most we can hope for is a really great movie, which I'm sorry to say is less then what the Donner movie was for pop culture. Donner's film was breakthrough and forever engrained Superman (and Reeve) into the minds of Americans. As for this movie, well, that remains to be seen. However according to the writer, based on what he's seen, he doesn't think so. And I kind of agree with him...
 
That-Guy said:
Yes, thank you! There were many aspects of Burton's first Batman film that I liked (the second was a waste, IMO) but making the Joker the guy who killed Batman's parents not only was a silly idea (gee, there's some crazed lunatic threatening the city... wouldn't it be convenient if he was the one you want revenge on for killing your family?) but it also made less-informed people think that it was canon. I heard more than one person complain about Batman Begins because they thought the Joker killed Batman's parents.

eh, joker, some random thug, all the same to me...You're right, the comics always come first, that's my philosophy to... but that didn't seem to change things too strongly. Killing Joker though. That was stupid.
 
venom420 said:
A visionary wouldn't make a sequel to a film almost 30 years old just because he loved it as a child. Peter Jackson loved Kong as a child as well, but he retold the story of Kong, not made some 'requel" where they go back to the island 72 years later. Singer SHOULD have made his own, naturalized origin story, much like Batman Begins.
here comes the delima...you're describing YOUR idea of what a visionary is, but that doesn't apply to what everyone ELSE thinks a visionary is. i'm not saying that everyone is going to disagree with you, but your definition isn't the same as everyone else's. i, personally, don't see anything 'wrong' with incorporating past ideas...considering Superman wasn't even Singer's idea in the first place.

Singer should have strived to achieve more than Donner's film.
that's funny...last time i checked, Singer wasn't using the same Supersuit and the same greenscreen techniques Donner did...

I know all you pyschiatrists here on the board think that makes him "unstable", but do you think a casual movie goer is going to think that. Do you honestly think that a casual movie goer is going to sit there with his little popcorn, his biggie drink, his sour patch kids, and say, wow that M-Fer is one psychotic dude. No, he is going to say, Gene Hackman, who's Lex sucked by the way.
so i guess you're a psychiatrist too then huh? since you obviously know EXACTLY what each and every movie goer is going to think...

The "now fly" scene and the stabbing are great, but thats it.
what about "Gods are selfish beings" and "goodbye....Superman" AND "tell me everything." where those parts not menacing enough for you?

Bottom Line, making a SEQUEL to the 78 film instead of doing your own, creative, visionary-like movie was a bad move. You rebuild the wheel because the wheel is old.
that's your opinion...posting "bottom line" sounds like you're trying to pass that off as a fact. and IMO....Singer has injected enough of his style into this movie to call it his own, creative, visionary-like movie. yes, he used some elements from the original movie....but there's no rule in the "guide to making movies" handbook that says you can't do that.

and yes, you DO rebuild the wheel if it's old...you replace it with an updated/modern version.....which is what Singer is doing. but i didn't ask why 'rebuild' the wheel.....i asked why 'reINVENT' the wheel.
 
StarvingArtist said:
No matter how faithful, action packed, or great the story is, according to the article, the most we can hope for is a really great movie, which I'm sorry to say is less then what the Donner movie was for pop culture. Donner's film was breakthrough and forever engrained Superman (and Reeve) into the minds of Americans.
This is understandable, though. What Donner did was something noone had done before him as far as Superhero films go. SR, regardless even if ends up being a better film in terms of storytelling and filmmaker's vision, it will not have as much of an impact as STM did, simply because it's impossible to make a drastically different superhero film nowadays that'll stand out for years to come.
 
can superman be saved NO! :(

ONYL because he's saving us from the other 2 crappy films before this one :)
 
lol....are you talking about the 2 bad Supes films released in the 80's or the 2 bad Supes films that were ALMOST made? hehe
 
Rather than the "requel" or sequel or "vauge history" a better idea would have been to use Action Comics #775 as the basis for the story and use that as a spring board to examine what makes Superman the greatest of all superheroes, rather than just another superhero in just another superhero movie (perhaps good, perhaps bad), which is what Returns is going to end up being.
 
DorkyFresh said:
why not? Smallville is a VERY big part of American television right now and more people than i'd like actually follow the show. it's not just you that watches the show...it's thousands of other Americans who might potentially be bored with the idea of a Superman origina movie.

It does not matter that it is part of American televison, my point is although I like Smallville, calling it an 'orgin' of anything is misguided as they have totally screwed up Superman's backstory.
 
thedarks0ldier said:
a successful and different origin story would have been "Birth Right"

i have said it before, that Birth right would have been a good place to reboot Superman.
 
The Game said:
It does not matter that it is part of American televison, my point is although I like Smallville, calling it an 'orgin' of anything is misguided as they have totally screwed up Superman's backstory.
i can totally understand a 'misguided' origin being a problem to you or me, but misguidance doesn't matter to the average joe who doesn't actually read comics. all they know is, they've already seen the origin in Superman:TM and more recently Smallville....so it's redundant to have to sit through 15 to 30 minutes of retelling Supes' birth story when most everyone knows how he came to be.

as i've stated before....we have X-Men, Spider-Man, Daredevil, Hulk, Hellboy, Fantastic Four, Batman Begins, and Ghost Rider. 8 origin films within 6 years. do we really NEED another one?


and as much as you guys want an origin story.....you guys also complain that Lex is the main villain again. yet, if Singer were to do an original telling of Superman's origins then Lex would AGAIN be the main villain...

...so either way, Singer loses against you guys.
 
In reply to DorkyFresh's comments toward me..........

About the suit and greenscreen, well the suit changing is not a big deal at all. The only people who truly care are die hard wanker fanboys. No matter who made the film, the suit would have changed, ecspecialy the neckline. And all the really did was bring the neckline up, darken the colors, shrink the S shield, and make the suit look more rubberish. Big deal. And of course Singer is going to use different green screen techniques and FX, Donner's stuff is almost 30 years old. Id sure hope he used different filming techinques. And one of the points the article that started this thread made were that " fancy smancy wancy fx " DON'T make a film.

About the past idea's, sure there's nothing wrong with incorporating a few here and there. But to make a SEQUEL to a film that is almost 30 years old goes a little past just incorparating Id say. And the Fleischer cartoons, yea they were good, but there even older. Obviously, Singer doesn't care about anything thats been done with the character after the Donner movie. It's like that stuff doesn't matter to him, and it upsets me greatly. I feel a much better movie would have been an adaption of either Birthright or the Animated Series. Hell, maybe even Man of Steel. Atleast Byrne dared to be different and not stale. There is so many ways you could have tould the story of Superman coming to be, so many different angles to approach it from, but Singer choose to stick with a 30 year old version.

Im also no pyschiatrist, but I don't have to be one to tell you that most casual movie-goers arent going to sit there and break down whats going on in Lex's head, that because he is making jokes to Superman's face that he is unstable and sociopathical as some on here would say. Casual movie goers don't look that deep, or they atleast need it explained. As for the " gods are selfish beings" and "Goodbye.....Superman" lines, they both remind me of something the Green Goblin would say in the Spider-man movie, ecspially the Goodbye....Superman line. That line reminds me of " We will meet again, Spider-man". And thats not a good thing. I think that if anything, this Lex will come off like an older, de-powered version of the Green Goblin. And it might be a good thing to you, but not me.

Singer has injected his own style. Maybe with fx and what not, but Singer himself said this is a totally different movie than he has ever made before. Light hearted, Romantic, funny. Not a typical Singer movie. He is basically adding alot of depth to the love story between Lois and Superman. Thats where the character driven part of the story is based, and I actually like that, so Ill let that slide, even though the love story was the worst thing about Singer's X-men movies.

And about the wheel thing, no you don't reinvent the wheel. You do however make new wheels. Singer is basically taking the old wheel and sticking it on a brand new suped up car, hence the fx and love story.

And I saw in another post you said had this been an origin story, Luthor would have had to be the villian. Not really. Braniac fits into an origin story and could have been the lone villian for the first film, and like Batman Begins did with the Joker, have Lex in the sequel.

Id just like to say as well, that everytime something negative about the film surfaces, there is always some "excuse" that people on these boards have. So many people here are full of excuses and copouts.
 
venom420 said:
In reply to DorkyFresh's comments toward me..........

About the suit and greenscreen, well the suit changing is not a big deal at all. The only people who truly care are die hard wanker fanboys.

Actually, I think people respond more to this these kinds of attacks more then the suit gripes. When you talk like that, you're putting others on the defensive and whatever point you were trying to get across gets lost because all people deduce from your post is that you're not the nicest person to have a conversation with.
 
Ive seriously tried to be nice on this board......it's just hard. Im fairly nice on other boards.
 

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