Civil War Cap 3 or Avengers 2.5?

[BullMcGiveny]

Nevermind.

 

[Chesterfield]

Definitely a Cap film.

 

[MarvelMayhem]

This is a hard one. I am kind of right between the 2 concepts. Yes it focuses on Steve but there are so many characters that spread it out too much at times. Totally enjoyed it but I think I might have enjoyed it more if there had been less characters involved.

 

[javonstokess]

I think people see all the Avengers and think "Avengers film", but the movie literally is driven by Cap and his actions. Everyone is reacting to HIS decisions moreso than everyone else. IMO, everyone, including Tony, are supporting cast to Cap's "star".

 

[ripse]

Cap 3 movie, main story about Cap & Bucky

 

[JtheDreamer]

It's Avengers 2.5.

Tony's arc in this movie as just as important as Steve's. They're basically co-leads. Then a new future lead characters arc is also established with Black Panther. You also have Bucky's story line, Zemo, and the inclusion of all the other heroes (some were shoehorned in, but fun to watch).

The movie was basically Captain America being marketed with the assistance of an Avengers film. There's no other way to put it.

 

[JB33]

I think people see all the Avengers and think "Avengers film", but the movie literally is driven by Cap and his actions. Everyone is reacting to HIS decisions moreso than everyone else. IMO, everyone, including Tony, are supporting cast to Cap's "star".

This. It's a Captain America movie. It just happens to involve several of his fellow superheros. The Accords, and the feud with those fellow superheros that ensued, are part of Captain America lore.

 

[The_Manhunter]

I'll take it a step further and say this was basically Avengers 3 - Tony was just as important as Cap for instance. Black Panther, Vision, and Scarlet Witch also got a decent amount of focus. Ya a lot of Cap characters were in it, but Loki being in the The Avengers didn't make it a Thor film for instance.

 

[Dark Raven]

It was a better Avengers film than Avengers 2.

 

[JtheDreamer]

I'll take it a step further and say this was basically Avengers 3 - Tony was just as important as Cap for instance. Black Panther, Vision, and Scarlet Witch also got a decent amount of focus. Ya a lot of Cap characters were in it, but Loki being in the The Avengers didn't make it a Thor film for instance.

Excellent point. I didn't even think of that angle with Thor/Loki.

 

[kguillou]

Yes, Tony had an arc and was important to the film but 80% of this movie was told through Cap's point of view. Cap was the center of the story, or rather Cap and Bucky were the center of the story. People are saying this is Avengers 3 just because the Avengers were in it, but they played supporting roles whereas the narrative revolved around Steve. He was the protagonist and Tony was the antagonist. I just don't see how this could be labeled as an Avengers movie or Iron man 4.

 

[marcvader]

It's Cap's film.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Yes, Tony had an arc and was important to the film but 80% of this movie was told through Cap's point of view. Cap was the center of the story, or rather Cap and Bucky were the center of the story. People are saying this is Avengers 3 just because the Avengers were in it, but they played supporting roles whereas the narrative revolved around Steve. He was the protagonist and Tony was the antagonist. I just don't see how this could be labeled as an Avengers movie or Iron man 4.

Again, it wasn't "80% told thru Cap's POV". If it were it would have been a Cap-dominated movie, which we know isn't true based on screen time and the fleshing out of other characters. Go re-watch CA:TFA and CA:TWS if you need to be reminded of what that actually looks like.

It took TWO central characters to have a major difference over the accords to carry the plot, not one. The other (i.e. Stark) was definitely not a "supporting" character - especially considering the twist about his parents.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

It's definitely a Cap film because he's the one driving the story, his actions are what influences everyone's decisions and he gets the most screentime. Also his supporting cast gets more screentime than the supporting cast of any of the other superheroes.

If this movie was named "Avengers: Civil War" I would have serious issues with it, for example Hawkeye and Vision would need a lot more screentime and the action would need to be of bigger scale. The plot would need to be focused on the Accords rather than Bucky, etc. This just doesn't work as an Avengers film.

It was a better Avengers film than Avengers 2.

That was not the question

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Again, it wasn't "80% told thru Cap's POV". If it were it would have been a Cap-dominated movie, which we know isn't true based on screen time and the fleshing out of other characters. Go re-watch CA:TFA and CA:TWS if you need to be reminded of what that actually looks like.

It took TWO central characters to have a major difference over the accords to carry the plot, not one. The other (i.e. Stark) was definitely not a "supporting" character - especially considering the twist about his parents.

Black Widow went through an arc in TWS, does that make it a Black Widow movie? What about Fury and Falcon, they had development as well, does that mean its their movie too?

 

[Havok83]

Black Widow went through an arc in TWS, does that make it a Black Widow movie? What about Fury and Falcon, they had development as well, does that mean its their movie too?

Simply having development in a film, doesnt make them the headliner for the film. Tony was a co-lead here. I dont see how anyone can see him as merely a supporting player here. The plot completely falls apart without Tony. I dont think the same can be said for those characters. Tony's material wasnt a subplot or side story. It was THE story. It was very core to the conflict and its not like you could just swap his role with anyone else in the movie and have it still work

 

[Dark Raven]

It's definitely a Cap film because he's the one driving the story, his actions are what influences everyone's decisions and he gets the most screentime. Also his supporting cast gets more screentime than the supporting cast of any of the other superheroes.

If this movie was named "Avengers: Civil War" I would have serious issues with it, for example Hawkeye and Vision would need a lot more screentime and the action would need to be of bigger scale. The plot would need to be focused on the Accords rather than Bucky, etc. This just doesn't work as an Avengers film.



That was not the question

What, are we playing Jeopardy here? It's just a comment.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Simply having development in a film, doesnt make them the headliner for the film. Tony was a co-lead here. I dont see how anyone can see him as merely a supporting player here. The plot completely falls apart without Tony. I dont think the same can be said for those characters. Tony's material wasnt a subplot or side story. It was THE story. It was very core to the conflict and its not like you could just swap his role with anyone else in the movie and have it still work

Bingo. Said it better than I did.

 

[JB33]

Simply having development in a film, doesnt make them the headliner for the film. Tony was a co-lead here. I dont see how anyone can see him as merely a supporting player here. The plot completely falls apart without Tony. I dont think the same can be said for those characters. Tony's material wasnt a subplot or side story. It was THE story. It was very core to the conflict and its not like you could just swap his role with anyone else in the movie and have it still work

Having another character who is central to the plot doesn't mean it's that character's film too. I mean, of course he's central to the plot. Captain America needs a challenger on the other side of this conflict.

The film is Avengers-like in scope, yes, but it's nevertheless a Captain America film. He's the one whose actions everyone else responds to.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Having another character who is central to the plot doesn't mean it's that character's film too. I mean, of course he's central to the plot. Captain America needs a challenger on the other side of this conflict.

The film is Avengers-like in scope, yes, but it's nevertheless a Captain America film. He's the one whose actions everyone else responds to.

Tony responding to the death of his parents death wasn't because of Cap. It was because of Bucky.

No offense, but I can't recall a standalone film where the supposed lead only got 36mins of screen time in a near 2.5 hour film. He takes up such a small portion because of the Avengers-effect. Btw, characters aren't only reacting to Steve, they're reacting to the accords. Steve's choice is a bi-product of them.

At best it's half Cap half Avengers.

 

[Dark Raven]

Well, at least it's slightly more screen time than he got in the Avengers movies.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Well, at least it's slightly more screen time than he got in the Avengers movies.

Haha according to this, he clocked in at 37:42. So he had slightly more time in the Avengers than in his own threequel.

http://www.vulture.com/2012/05/how-much-screen-time-does-each-avenger-get.html

EDIT: In AOU they claim 50:25!

http://www.vulture.com/2015/05/how-much-screen-time-does-each-avenger-get.html

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Black Widow went through an arc in TWS, does that make it a Black Widow movie? What about Fury and Falcon, they had development as well, does that mean its their movie too?

Myself, I thought so. I'd say it was about SHIELD. Falcon didn't really have development.

Fury did, and so did Black Widow. In fact, Black Widow had the most development. Hell, when asked about a Black Widow movie, a few pointed to CATWS being it.

 

[Dark Raven]

Haha according to this, he clocked in at 37:42. So he had slightly more time in the Avengers than in his own threequel.

http://www.vulture.com/2012/05/how-much-screen-time-does-each-avenger-get.html

EDIT: In AOU they claim 50:25!

http://www.vulture.com/2015/05/how-much-screen-time-does-each-avenger-get.html

Cap had a cameo in Civil War.

Now imagine if he were also 4th billed in the credits for CW like in AOU.

 

[ssj wolverine]

This is Avengers 2.5. Cap's point of view and Tony's point of view. There would be no movie without Tony. Probably just a rehash of TWS