Captain Marvel VS Wonder Women

[The Leaguer]

Sounds like invulnerability to me.

 

[Zeu]

No, see, invulnerability is ability to sustain ANY sort of bodily harm without a scratch.

Superman, CM or Wonder Woman are not invulnerable, they only have extreme durability.

They can still be harmed and beaten to death, it´s just a matter of finding someone strong enough to inflict that amount of physical punishment (Doomsday, Mongul, Lobo, Darkseid).

As proven by her continuous fights with Superman and other such creatures, Wonder Woman is EXTREMELLY durable against blunt attacks (punches, kicks, a mountain falling on top of her).
She is, however (don´t ask me why since I think it goes into the realm of absurdity, if not stupidity) more vulnerable to piercing attacks (bullets and cuts).

A person who can survive being punched all the way from Venus, surviving re-entry and crashing on good ole earth shouldn´t have to watch her step around friggin´bullets!

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Like it or not the files on the DC website state that Superman and CM are invulnerable and Wonder Woman is not. They state it clearly and specifically and it is their opinion that matters not ours.

 

[Zeu]

Doesn´t matter.

There are plenty of invulnerable Gods as well and Diana spends half the time beheading them in her book.

In the end, Wisdom of Solomon and Wisdom of Athena cancel each other and what we have is a 12 years old boy fighting with a 3,000 years old warrior.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

In mythology the gods were not invulnerable. Ares was constantly fighting in mortal battles and getting wounded by those with no extraordinary powers. In DC I don't know.

 

[BrianWilly]

Well, like it or not, Superman is obviously not invulnerable in the way that you're using the term because we see him in the comics hurt, bleeding, in peril every other month. Invulnerable does not mean invincible, and clearly DC is not and has not been applying that term to Superman in the way that you mean. There's blatant ways to kill both Superman and Captain Marvel, and sometimes it really comes down to being as straightforward as punching them in the face really hard.

I agree that they're both probably and notably more durable than Wonder Woman...but then, it's not like she wears those bracelets -- forged from Zeus' Aegis itself -- just for show. If you wanna talk about defense, she's not exactly a lightweight.

In mythology, the gods were immortal but not invulnerable. In DC, they are neither immortal nor invulnerable. Their status as gods just means that it's harder to kill them and easier for them to come back.

 

[Primal Slayer]

um I always thought that they were Immortal...they dont age and they granted the amazons with immortality as well...

 

[BrianWilly]

If by immortal you mean that they don't age, then yes they are definitely immortal. If by immortal you mean that they don't age and they don't die, then no they are not. Gods can die in the DCU. Not easily, and often not permanently, but it's death nonetheless. Deimos died. Harmonia died. As did Artemis, Hades, and Cronos. Hermes died during the War of the Gods event and wasn't brought back until these last few years. The list goes on.

Even age can kill a god in DC/Vertigo. If no one remembers or worships a god and their domain of influence becomes unimportant to humanity, then the god will essentially just lose his power and pass away.

 

[Sloth7d]

But eitherway wouldn't Marvel have an advantage over WW because of his solomons lightning and such?

 

[BrianWilly]

Why? She's not Superman, she has no particular weakness to magic. To her, magic lightning is just lightning. She eats energy attacks -- yes, from gods -- for breakfast, lunch, and dinner...it's what her bracelets are there for. And if Cap gets too trigger-happy with that power, he might find himself as normal Billy at the wrong moment and leave the perfect opportunity for WW to take him out. If he has any sense in that head of his -- and we know he does, considering the wisdom of Solomon -- he wouldn't use that power at all in a fight like this.

 

[Sloth7d]

But I thought he was stuck as Marvel permanatley now that Solomons dead.
Though when I referrenced his lightning, I just meant he had the advantage for long range attacks. Thats all.

 

[BrianWilly]

You mean Shazam, right? Not Solomon?

According to his new mini, he's regained the power to switch back and forth again. And even through 52, he mentioned that he was only stuck in that form in the Rock of Eternity.

If we're including his recent power upgrade post-IC, then yeah he'd probably win.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Well I don't really know who would win between these two as I think it can go either way. And as such, a writer will have anyone win as long as it suits his purpose.

I do however think that it makes no sense WW having the strength of Gaia. If we were talking mythology, the only person she ever gave strength to was Antaeus who was supposedly her son, and she could only do this when he was in contact with her. But this strength was not enough for him to defeat Heracles or Herakles or Hercules in a wrestling contest. However, I do not think that asking which of the patrons is stronger would settle anything, because you can be sure that in a battle you will not clearly see wither WW or CM being the stronger. They will be evenly matched.

Now the idea that Demeter who was goddess of the hearth could give Gaia's strength to WW is preposterous. How would she be able to grant such a channel to anyone.

On the other hand, note that Athena was goddess of wisdom as well, among her other titles.

On a completely other note, it makes no sense that WW can be hurt by a bullet and survive a punch by a superpowerred villain.

I just personally think that trying to make her as powerful as Superman, which is what I assumed the writers were going for when they remade her, but yet keep the bracelets and the rest is plain stupid.

Solomon was not that wise by the way given he betrayed his God for the love of women (accepting idolatry).

If I may ask, give how powerful she is, why are there so many shouts to depower Superman and yet nothing for these two.

And this whole discussion about mythology is neither here nor there, as I think the writers were not being literal when saying which patron granted what. I think they were just talking about the concepts.

Also, just one last question how is Zeus now less pwerful then Ares and Athena? That makes no sense to me.

 

[Dr. Fate]

Also, just one last question how is Zeus now less pwerful then Ares and Athena? That makes no sense to me.

I know, that's weird.

 

[HandOfFate]

In the DCU, the gods get their power from various aspect of humanity which they represent. Ares, who is now the "Lord of the Underworld" get his power from all the wars around the world and the death it brings. Athena the goddess of wisdom is now portrayed as a young business woman carrying a briefcase and cell phone, while Aphrodite and Cupid now look like super-model. Each god now looks like and receives power from the modern version of their chosen aspect.

As I understand it, Zeus as the head of the Greek gods got his power from the worship of his pantheon. Seeing that the only people who worship the Greek Gods are the amazons he is now working on a limited amount of power.

Now I could be wrong seeing that I haven’t read this story in a long time.

 

[BrianWilly]

That's mostly accurate. Zeus was worshipped primarily as a thunder god, god of power and kings, and no one today trembles anymore when they look at the skies. Hence, he is very much diminished in power to the point where the other gods were more afraid of his servants than they were of the guy himself. On the other hand, Ares is the god of war and war is as important to humanity today as it was to humanity 3000 years ago.

None of this is actually new material, people; when Perez reintroduced Wonder Woman, it was already stated that the main gods were dying off and diminishing in power whereas Ares was made more and more powerful by the amount of senseless wars everyone was fighting.

And, people, Demeter is not the goddess of the hearth and Hestia is not the goddess of the earth or whatever. It's the other way around.

I do however think that it makes no sense WW having the strength of Gaia. If we were talking mythology, the only person she ever gave strength to was Antaeus who was supposedly her son, and she could only do this when he was in contact with her. But this strength was not enough for him to defeat Heracles or Herakles or Hercules in a wrestling contest. However, I do not think that asking which of the patrons is stronger would settle anything, because you can be sure that in a battle you will not clearly see wither WW or CM being the stronger. They will be evenly matched.

If we're talking mythology, then a total of 0% of Captain Marvel actually makes sense. The idea of Zeus willingly giving any power to anyone, much less a mortal he's never met in his life, is pretty out there. Plus the fact that neither Achilles nor Solomon are gods...I mean, the list goes on.

Besides, Heracles couldn't defeat Antaeus until he lifted him off of the earth; while he drew strength from his mother, he WAS stronger than Heracles. So if Wonder Woman has the strength of Gaea at all times and not just when she's connected to the floor, it still makes sense that she's stronger than Captain Marvel.

You're right that whoever is stronger in this instance is not going to be the deciding factor in the fight...when their power levels are so very similar, other factors are going to have to tip the scales. I'm just pointing out that, contrary to popular belief, Wonder Woman's strength is not equal to Marvel's but greater than. It continues to amaze me, twenty years after her reboot, just how many people -- reasonably passionate DC fans at that -- seem to have all these weird misconceptions about Wonder Woman's powers, while others just don't seem to have any idea about them at all.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

When Hercules fought Anteus he was still a mortal not a god.

 

[rigel7soldiers]

Antaeus was a demigod, like Hecules; his mother was Gaia.

 

[Hush]

Actually according to actual myth Achilles is a god. Before hhis funeral pryor was set aflame he was supposedly "zapped" up to Olympus. Actually he was sent to a island of eternal bliss and granted immortality, all of this by his mother, who is a god. So techinically he is a god.

This is directed at Brian Willy.

 

[BrianWilly]

Interesting. I've never heard of anything like that.

 

[Sloth7d]

I thought he was dipped in some mystic pound by his mother. But she held him by his ankle which did not become immortalised like the rest of him.

 

[Zeu]

I see a lot of misconceptions going on in here......


First, Heracles/Hercules´mom Alcmene was not a goddess, she was a mere mortal Zeus slept with.

This is a VERY important aspect of his history, or do you think another goddess would have allowed Hera (despite her higher hiercachy) to carry out the plots and schemes she did to kill the fruit of her husband´s illicit relation.

Half the story of Hercules/Heracles is exactly that, Hera trying to kill the halfi-god out of spite.
Eventually, he tryumphs over his ordeals and is welcomed in Olympus to become a god next to his father.

In ancient histpry, the very definition of a "Hero" was someone above man and below gods. Hercules, in this case.

And ACHILLES was the one who wa dipped on the river Styx by his mom who held him by the heel, thus giving birth to the expression "achilles´Heel" or "tendom of Achilles".

 

[Sloth7d]

I thought so. Then he was never a "god", since he had that extreme weakness.

 

[Hush]

For the hell of it, Willy I went ahead and pulled out my old Myth and Legend book and it says here " Thetis actually rescued Achilles from the funeral Pyre and took him to the White Island in the Euxine Sea, where he is immortal." So while he is not a god he is immortal and has a mother who is a god so he now theoretically is a god due to his blood and now his immortality. Well that was a little history lesson in Myth wasnt it?

 

[Sloth7d]

For the hell of it, Willy I went ahead and pulled out my old Myth and Legend book and it says here " Thetis actually rescued Achilles from the funeral Pyre and took him to the White Island in the Euxine Sea, where he is immortal." So while he is not a god he is immortal and has a mother who is a god so he now theoretically is a god due to his blood and now his immortality. Well that was a little history lesson in Myth wasnt it?

But still, technically he's not immortal because of his heel.