The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Chanes of this beating SM2 Quality wise?

[Picard Sisko]

Well when I first saw still images of the Lizard, I wasn't too happy with the design. Though once we got to see him in motion, I completely changed my mind, and actually liked the way he looked.

What's wrong with that? Its not like our opinions are set in stone.

 

[Nemeres]

Do you want to expand on that response? lol

Okay, not true, they ARE showing analysis. I'd definitely qualify my criticism as analysis, because I don't have a vested interest in hating this movie. But I do notice a strong reticence, on both sides, to accept or even to consider the argument from the opposite side. People like thinking what they already think, and they'll pull anything they can out of anywhere to keep it that way.

 

[iwontsaveu]

Still looks lame to me. It was a lame design to begin with, a lame plot device for a villain, and a lame villain in a superhero movie. Lizard was lame all around. Again and again, the vast majority was not calling for a Dikto Lizard design. No one was hoping he would turn NYC into lizards. Everyone thought the leaked footage in the school restroom was an unfinished design. Just like with the silver slippers or the 'missing' belt on the ASM costume, people hoped for more and created scenarios in their head why it was different. When the official stills come out, then suddenly it's amazing and Webb and crew did a bang up job. It's hilarious to me that people act like that on here.

the lizard looked fine stop complaining, the only justified criticism is that they didn't flesh him out more, which would have been done if they hadn't cut the scenes with his son.

 

[psylockolussus]

Also, why are you comparing TASM1 to Raimi's series as opposed to just SM1?

Because someone said TASM will age better than Raimi's series. And I just responded to that comment.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Okay, not true, they ARE showing analysis. I'd definitely qualify my criticism as analysis, because I don't have a vested interest in hating this movie.

Its not as if I said every single member is not showing analysis. But I feel that the majority of criticisms are really just complaints for the sake of being a complaint.

But I do notice a strong reticence, on both sides, to accept or even to consider the argument from the opposite side. People like thinking what they already think, and they'll pull anything they can out of anywhere to keep it that way.

Hence the lack of true analysis.

the lizard looked fine stop complaining, the only justified criticism is that they didn't flesh him out more, which would have been done if they hadn't cut the scenes with his son.

The Lizard's lack of character development is the main thing holding this movie back IMO. If he was done right, this would have been a very solid movie. I suppose he suffered from being in an origin film since the first hour or so focused on Peter Parker's transformation into Spider-Man.

 

[Nemeres]

Hence the lack of true analysis.

Exactly.

You do mean on both sides, right?

 

[Picard Sisko]

Exactly.

You do mean on both sides, right?

There is a lack of analysis on both sides, yes. But I was simply stating that the majority of criticisms I find here or on the internet lack a true analysis, and are therefore mere complaints.

Then you said this was not true.

 

[Nemeres]

There is a lack of analysis on both sides, yes. But I was simply stating that the majority of criticisms I find here or on the internet lack a true analysis, and are therefore mere complaints.

Then you said this was not true.

Well, we've probably been looking in different places, but I'd put it like this, with 100% honesty (in my personal opinion, of course): this movie is just WAY too flawed for the majority of criticism to be just hollow complaining. I really don't think that's true. There's some, sure, like at CBM.com and places like that, where trolls abound. On the other hand, SHH is kind of like a bubble of sorts, where the (probable) majority is predisposed to love the film and forgive its shortcomings.

 

[Picard Sisko]

In my personal opinion, the pros of this movie outweigh the cons, and considering how much people wanted to hate it starting from its initial announcement, I believe a lot of the criticisms are just geared towards hating the movie at any cost.

Ever read some of the really stupid comments on YouTube or on the SHH website? If anything, I hear more hatred for this movie online then I do with the people I've met in person.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Anyways I think we should get back on topic: I think that TASM2 will, at the very least, top TASM1. I think it would take a lot for this movie not to be an improvement.

 

[chaseter]

the lizard looked fine stop complaining, the only justified criticism is that they didn't flesh him out more, which would have been done if they hadn't cut the scenes with his son.

Not when an overly better design and motivation was an option. They swung and they missed. Lizard fans were let down. We have to wait until the next reboot or the reboot after that.

 

[Picard Sisko]

It was the one major weakness of TASM IMO. Most of the film's complaints seem to revolve around the movie's villain.

 

[iwontsaveu]

Not when an overly better design and motivation was an option. They swung and they missed. Lizard fans were let down. We have to wait until the next reboot or the reboot after that.

lets be honest, how many lizards fans are there really. Green Goblin, venom, Carnage, and doc ock have the biggest fans out of all of spider-man cool rogues gallery. The rest are just for warmup.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I definitely think Lizard is one of Spidey's A-list villains, but there aren't exactly a large number of people out there who are complaining about their "favorite" villain being ruined. Its not like when Venom was ruined in SM3, that really disappointed a lot of people.

 

[def28]

Doc Connors is a very popular character and villain in the Spidey world. But yeah Venom got people way more hyped. Don't think alot of the audience knew what to expect with Lizard. Venom had a very high expectation. Alot of audiences looked at him as the Ultimate Spider-Man Villain. So that had a way more negative reaction with SM3.

With Lizard they just gave us a meh villain , missed some solid development with the Doc and completely ditched the family. Which I thought was a huge mistake. I don't see people wanting to see more of that for awhile.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I can see the lizard possibly returning in the 3rd or 4th movie for a sinister 6 movie, obviously looking the same with Rhys doing motion capture again but with a more smoother script

But yeah chances are a new take of the lizard will be in another reboot in 10 years

 

[Picard Sisko]

I think the Lizard was a decent villain, he just wasn't fleshed out enough. Another 20 minutes dedicated to him could have really helped out a lot, but its hard to do that especially when telling an origin story for Spider-Man.

Honestly, if the movie was all about Peter Parker dealing with getting powers, solving the mystery behind his parents, and going after Uncle Ben's killer, I would have been okay with that. However, from a marketing standpoint this would have been very bad. They have to have at least one big villain in each movie to advertise. The GA may not have been so happy about this either.

Now that the origin is done and overwith, I think that Electro will have a lot more screentime in the next movie and will be a little bit more developed. The thing with Lizard is that they took away from his character, but with Electro, the filmmakers are only adding to him. So we can really judge this incarnation of the character on his own merits, not from what we know in the comic book.

 

[iwontsaveu]

I'm not saying lizard isn't popular, i like the character myself. What i meant is that the spidey fanbase IMO is not as attached to the characters as the aforementioned ones. Say for intance if they tok him out os spider-man ogues gallery and gave him to like black panther or daredevil, I don't think people would really care. Now if they took green goblin and tried to give it to someone else there would be an uproar.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Lizard is one of the better Spidey villains, but he isn't the arch nemesis (that goes to Green Goblin), and he doesn't have his own fanbase or cult following like Venom does. He IS popular, but not that popular, at least not outside fans of the Spider-Man comic books.

 

[Green Goblin]

So chaster...

You want a CGI dinosaur that talks and his plan is to eat people?

 

[Picard Sisko]

I think the Ditko design makes more sense for a movie.

 

[GuestStar2004]

there is an incredible amount of detail in the lizards design i don't think gets enough credit tbh, alot of it was done for the right reason

i liked the lizard and i'd be happy to see him return maybe in the 4th

 

[Loki882]

The Lizard was decent, but not as good as he could have been if they kept his family. Venom, on the other hand, was a complete misfire. I'd take The Lizard in TASM over Venom in SM 3 any day of the week.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Agreed. Venom's place in the movie felt like an afterthought (which is what he was anyway), while the Lizard actually tied into the plot of TASM. I really liked Rhys Ifans a lot as Dr. Connors, too.

 

[GuestStar2004]

he was a good Dr. connors, its a shame the deleted scene with peter finding connors in his sewer base was cut out the final film, dunno what they were thinking there