Comics Change Coming for Lee's Spider-Man?

[farmernudie]

When you alter a giant significant chunk of history....it alters everything. Continuity would have to be WAY different.

I know, i know...but they tell us everything is exactly the same despite history being altered SIGNIFICANTLY.

Cival War, the Unmasking, every issue from the wedding onward..., spidey in avengers tower...none of it makes sense or is the same now.

And if it did happen, at all, no one knows, or they remember it with scrambled blurry faces and nothing makes sense in anyone's swiss cheesed minds.

Nor does anyone care their minds are holey. Or notice.

The comic strip starting over, in the grand scheme, is...ok...i suppose...but odd and uneeded. Just another way to sweep the marriage under the rug. And people can see Pete date his wife again. Oh thrills.

 

[Themanofbat]

When you alter a giant significant chunk of history....it alters everything. Continuity would have to be WAY different.

I know, i know...but they tell us everything is exactly the same despite history being altered SIGNIFICANTLY.

Cival War, the Unmasking, every issue from the wedding onward..., spidey in avengers tower...none of it makes sense or is the same now.

And if it did happen, at all, no one knows, or they remember it with scrambled blurry faces and nothing makes sense in anyone's swiss cheesed minds.

Nor does anyone care their minds are holey. Or notice.

The comic strip starting over, in the grand scheme, is...ok...i suppose...but odd and uneeded. Just another way to sweep the marriage under the rug. And people can see Pete date his wife again. Oh thrills.

It's only speculative on anyone's part as they haven't explained those things out... though I'm sure that much of it will fall under the "whatever spell Peter did to make everyone forget" department... and if it makes some semblance of sense, then I'm all for it.

 

[Themanofbat]

Well, aside from the two things you mentioned, Quesada also stated in an interview on CBR right when One More Day came out that, as far as he was concerned, MJ never got pregnant the entire time Peter and her were together because it was just a "plot device" the creators came up with at the time to get Peter and MJ out of the titles for Ben Reilly to step in and take over. Of course, this puts the entire Clone Saga into question since it was MJ's pregnancy that resulted in Peter believing he was a clone and Ben "the original." And yet, the Clone Saga still happened.

Likewise, The Green Goblin's motive for "returning form the dead" is also been altered significantly. Originally, it was so he couldn't stand that Peter life, after making him believe he was a clone, was still "perfect" while his son was dead. Yet, now that we know Harry never actually died and Norman was key to covering that fact up, revenge against Peter for "killing his son" is no longer the case. Not to mention that, apparently, Osborn's own thoughts and journal entries were lies.

And don't forget, somehow, Peter Parker no longer has organic webshooters and his Wolverine-esque bone spears--although that certainly isn't any big loss--without any explanation. And yet, according to Wacker, he still does.

As far as Norman returning, he might have been planning on coming back in any event, and even though the "world" thought Harry to be dead, including Peter, Norman could have simply use this fact to comeback and drive his biggest enemy insane with the Clone Saga.. and as far as the journals, he might have "planted" the words used in the journals in case he was caught and/or something went wrong... Norman is somewhat of a master manipulator afterall...

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Well, aside from the two things you mentioned, Quesada also stated in an interview on CBR right when One More Day came out that, as far as he was concerned, MJ never got pregnant the entire time Peter and her were together because it was just a "plot device" the creators came up with at the time to get Peter and MJ out of the titles for Ben Reilly to step in and take over. Of course, this puts the entire Clone Saga into question since it was MJ's pregnancy that resulted in Peter believing he was a clone and Ben "the original." And yet, the Clone Saga still happened.

Likewise, The Green Goblin's motive for "returning form the dead" is also been altered significantly. Originally, it was so he couldn't stand that Peter life, after making him believe he was a clone, was still "perfect" while his son was dead. Yet, now that we know Harry never actually died and Norman was key to covering that fact up, revenge against Peter for "killing his son" is no longer the case. Not to mention that, apparently, Osborn's own thoughts and journal entries were lies.

And don't forget, somehow, Peter Parker no longer has organic webshooters and his Wolverine-esque bone spears--although that certainly isn't any big loss--without any explanation. And yet, according to Wacker, he still does.

Well, Q can sat whatever he likes, but that pregnancy thing has yet to be mentioned in the past year's worth of COMICS. Am i mistaken? If not then until i see it THERE, it's really just Joe Q's opinion and hasnt been put into "continuity" in the least.........right?

I recall Norman ranting at Peter about Peter's life and his son's "death"....but doesn't that fall under the fact that Norman was trying to hide the fact that Harry was still alive? That's how i understood it.

I figured the claws and organics got re-set along with the identity. I mean, as a reader i don't really feel the need to be spoon fed ever single detail, but again; it hasnt really been adressed/established one way or another in the COMICS, so i really don't get all these "continuity is a mess" comments im reading...

 

[kguillou]

Originally posted by CaptainStacy

Well, Q can sat whatever he likes, but that pregnancy thing has yet to be mentioned in the past year's worth of COMICS. Am i mistaken? If not then until i see it THERE, it's really just Joe Q's opinion and hasnt been put into "continuity" in the least.........right?

I recall Norman ranting at Peter about Peter's life and his son's "death"....but doesn't that fall under the fact that Norman was trying to hide the fact that Harry was still alive? That's how i understood it.

I figured the claws and organics got re-set along with the identity. I mean, as a reader i don't really feel the need to be spoon fed ever single detail, but again; it hasnt really been adressed/established one way or another in the COMICS, so i really don't get all these "continuity is a mess" comments im reading...

But CaptainStacy, besides the whole Harry Osborn "death" thing, there's still a TON of inconsistencies that do make the continuity a mess. You cannot change something this big and not expect ripple effects. How would YOU explain the New Avenger's memories of Peter living with them with his aunt and mary jane? Aunt may dated Jarvis, Peter died and was ressurected while he was living with the avengers. What about everything that happened during Civil War and Back in Black? Does aunt may know why she was shot anymore? What happened to the sniper? Does kingpin remember why he ordered a hit on some dude's aunt? Does Kingpin know why "some random dude" kicked his fat ass half to death? The list goes on man. In order for things to make sense, history MUST have been altered otherwise these events just do not make sense. But marvel INSISTS that nothing has changed except the marriage. If a sniper shot me and i've got the scar on my hip to prove it, shouldn't i be wondering why i got shot? Your telling me that everybody REMEMBERS Spider-man, one of the biggest heroes, unmasking but not a living soul remembers who he was and everybody is ok with that? Something's wrong there man.

And the one thing that annoys me the most is we dont even know what PETER knows. How much of the past events does Peter remember? What exactly did mephisto erase from Peter's memories besides the marriage? Shouldn't we at least be clued in to what our protagonist is thinking? We didnt even know Peter acknowledged Harry's resurrection until last issue. I dont wanna sound like a whiner but it is what it is. lol

 

[ScottishFogg]

Things change when you get married, like your sense of responsibility. It seems to me that with Peter's "with great power comes great responsiblity" and with his sense of guilt, that as soon as Venom attacked MJ in their apartment, he would have sent her packing.

"Sorry, MJ. I just can't have you here, being a target for my enemies."

Which, if I know Peter like I thought I did, he would have done. Because, even though he loved her, they weren't married. They could break up and go their seperate ways. But in marrying her, he took personal responsibility to protect and save her -- her above all else.

For me, you can't just remove the marriage and try to pretend the same history and the same stories would have unfolded in the same ways.

 

[farmernudie]

Well said Scottish Fog.

Changing a GIANT chunk of history...altering history...changes everything in major ways. It is the core aspect/fact in all time continuim. Even the slightest change introduces major rippled changes. Continuity CANNOT be the same, logically speaking, AT ALL.

Meanwhile, Jarvis is wandering around remembering an old lady he just dated recently at Avengers Tower but can't remember who she is or what she looked like...she has a blurry face in his memories.

When will he mention to the Avengers his swiss cheesed mind?

Will he go to the DR at least in some untold story (since he is elderly) and have himself tested for dementia, or other elderly cognitive diseases??

(At least the entire team of Avengers can relate, because they can't fully remember things recently either!!!!)

Such a RECENT memory GAP and CONFUSION must not keep Jarvis's mind at ease!! He'd be feeling panic.

As a Nurse, I can attest to the fact that people experiencing serious mental cognitive issues get QUITE frustrated, angery, and severely depressed.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Although, Farmer, they covered the Jarvis angle by makin' him a Skrull, so the REAL Jarvis never met May.

I've read through some of the BND issues, and I gotta tell ya; all I see is a man-child who still lives at home an' is practically INEPT at the heroics despite doin' it fer well over a decade, Marvel-time. It's like he's back in high school, except he's still 26. If they were gonna do that they shoulda done the full nines and MADE him back in high school.

And MOB, footnotes have been gone fer two decades? Really?! Dude, seriously, refocus that tunnel vision 'cause footnotes've only been gone just several years at best. I wouldn't even say a decade till they slowly began resurfacin' in the more old-school titles.

 

[e-three]

And we saw this... maybe "once"... in the comics???

Exactly. But in the comic strip its already established (ok, inferred at least) that Peter already has a job, seeing as how he has an apartment (of which Peter in the comics had neither when Brand New Day began). So Aunt May having to kick Peter out of bed to go look for a job doesn't even happen "once" in the strip. Well, unless that's in Stan's plans in the future.

I was simply comparing the way Stan Lee's version of "Brand New Day" started with the way the "braintrust" version started, especially since they both share a common element of Peter waking up at Aunt May's house being the first thing we see. My point of view is that Stan's version already got off to a better start simply because at least comic strip Peter starts off competent enough to juggle having his own apartment, a job, being Spider-Man and go to college while the comic book Peter (who is out of college and I assume older than the comic strip Peter) needed his "crabby" Aunt May to kick him out of bed and almost force him to be responsible. To say nothing about him making a deal with Mephisto to get to that point in the comics, which I think everyone agrees was stupid. I didn't mean for all of Brand New Day to be encapsulated by that one scene, and I'm sorry if it came across that way.

Of course, all of this is probably moot now since it looks as though the strip didn't get rebooted at all, merely set back in time, judging from Sunday's strip. Oh well.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Originally posted by CaptainStacy
But CaptainStacy, besides the whole Harry Osborn "death" thing, there's still a TON of inconsistencies that do make the continuity a mess. You cannot change something this big and not expect ripple effects. How would YOU explain the New Avenger's memories of Peter living with them with his aunt and mary jane? Aunt may dated Jarvis, Peter died and was ressurected while he was living with the avengers. What about everything that happened during Civil War and Back in Black? Does aunt may know why she was shot anymore? What happened to the sniper? Does kingpin remember why he ordered a hit on some dude's aunt? Does Kingpin know why "some random dude" kicked his fat ass half to death? The list goes on man. In order for things to make sense, history MUST have been altered otherwise these events just do not make sense. But marvel INSISTS that nothing has changed except the marriage. If a sniper shot me and i've got the scar on my hip to prove it, shouldn't i be wondering why i got shot? Your telling me that everybody REMEMBERS Spider-man, one of the biggest heroes, unmasking but not a living soul remembers who he was and everybody is ok with that? Something's wrong there man.

And the one thing that annoys me the most is we dont even know what PETER knows. How much of the past events does Peter remember? What exactly did mephisto erase from Peter's memories besides the marriage? Shouldn't we at least be clued in to what our protagonist is thinking? We didnt even know Peter acknowledged Harry's resurrection until last issue. I dont wanna sound like a whiner but it is what it is. lol

Right, but you're calling all that "inconsistencies" when what they really are is plot points that haven't been addressed yet.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't make "continuity a mess". It makes me curious to continue reading and see where they take the character.

 

[Themanofbat]

And MOB, footnotes have been gone fer two decades? Really?! Dude, seriously, refocus that tunnel vision 'cause footnotes've only been gone just several years at best. I wouldn't even say a decade till they slowly began resurfacin' in the more old-school titles.

Well, I remember reading Marvel Team-Up #6 (I think) about 4 years ago while Robert Kirkman was writing it, and there was a footnote in the issue, and this board (along with others) were "floored" by the fact that someone at Marvel at that time actually cared enough to reference an older story and it had been a looooooooooooooooooong time since the readers saw one of those...

Yes, I will agree that they probably popped up here and there in Marvel's C-list books, but they used to be in practically every book up until the early 90's... so I'm sooooooooooo sorry if I said the word "two decades" and I might have been off by 5 or 7 years... still doesn't mean they have been around all this time in a Spider-Man book... Bub.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Try until the early 2000s, bub. Then they got condensed into list form in the letters pages, and then wiped out entirely 'cause continuity didn't matter. Oh, hell, guess it still doesn't in most cases.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Try until the early 2000s, bub. Then they got condensed into list form in the letters pages, and then wiped out entirely 'cause continuity didn't matter. Oh, hell, guess it still doesn't in most cases.

 

[stillanerd]

Just got a look at today's strip and guess what?

The marriage is still intact. How? Well, read for yourself:

So it looks like that phrase "In the days long before Peter and MJ were married" means that Stan Lee has essentially turned the strip into a version of "Untold Tales of Spider-Man" while making folks think he actually pulled a "One More Day/Brand New Day." That sneaky, sneaky, Stan Lee.

 

[Themanofbat]

Well, good for Stan...

 

[Themanofbat]

Try until the early 2000s, bub. Then they got condensed into list form in the letters pages, and then wiped out entirely 'cause continuity didn't matter. Oh, hell, guess it still doesn't in most cases.

Remember that I'm reffering to Spider-Man comics, and I really don't recall ever seeing those things during JMS' run... bub.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Because JMS' run came when they were phased out, which was...DUN DUN DUN!...early 2000s. They were still present fer the start of vol. 2. That's when they went from CGI to more traditional.

And while we're at it, DC seriously needs to invest in some of those! Help us semi-Marvel defectors out, yo!

 

[TwilightPro101]

Just got a look at today's strip and guess what?

The marriage is still intact. How? Well, read for yourself:

So it looks like that phrase "In the days long before Peter and MJ were married" means that Stan Lee has essentially turned the strip into a version of "Untold Tales of Spider-Man" while making folks think he actually pulled a "One More Day/Brand New Day." That sneaky, sneaky, Stan Lee.

Subtle and to the point.

 

[Themanofbat]

Because JMS' run came when they were phased out, which was...DUN DUN DUN!...early 2000s. They were still present fer the start of vol. 2. That's when they went from CGI to more traditional.

And while we're at it, DC seriously needs to invest in some of those! Help us semi-Marvel defectors out, yo!

Lol... very early 2000's, considering JMS' run started in the begining of 2001... t:

But yes, both Marvel & DC need to invest in the footnotes, for readers who might be interested in knowing where and what and how.... though DC's history is very convoluted right now and I'm not sure if they even know what's what...

 

[TwilightPro101]

Lol... very early 2000's, considering JMS' run started in the begining of 2001... t:

But yes, both Marvel & DC need to invest in the footnotes, for readers who might be interested in knowing where and what and how.... though DC's history is very convoluted right now and I'm not sure if they even know what's what...

Totally agree or at least the flip pages, that cover back stories bringing things up to date.

 

[imdaly]

all I see is a man-child who still lives at home an' is practically INEPT at the heroics despite doin' it fer well over a decade, Marvel-time.

...you haven't actually read the issues, have you?

He doesn't live at home, and he's done quite a good job against most of his villains he's face so far. Really the only one that was pretty lame was Screwball.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

...you haven't actually read the issues, have you?

He doesn't live at home, and he's done quite a good job against most of his villains he's face so far. Really the only one that was pretty lame was Screwball.

Freak wasn't lame?


(I agree the others range from okay to pretty cool, though)

 

[imdaly]

I don't think Freak was lame. And Spidey used his brains to defeat him. Hardly inept, he was.

 

[ScottishFogg]

Just got a look at today's strip and guess what?

The marriage is still intact. How? Well, read for yourself:

So it looks like that phrase "In the days long before Peter and MJ were married" means that Stan Lee has essentially turned the strip into a version of "Untold Tales of Spider-Man" while making folks think he actually pulled a "One More Day/Brand New Day." That sneaky, sneaky, Stan Lee.

Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but I could have gotten behind this idea in the comics as well.

It was this idea that made me try out Ultimate Spider-Man. I love "untold tales." So bringing this to the 616 would not have been bad for me at all. They could have let the braintrust put all their energy into a new Untold Tales of while allowing Amazing to continue down its natural path. That way, Spidey could still interact with the rest of the Marvel Universe, but they could put most their time and money behind the Untold Tales of.

Seems like everyone would be happy.

Oh. And on a side note, why's Electro named suddenly spelled with a K?

 

[kguillou]

Its funny, Peter actually looks older in the comic strip than he does right now in the mainstream comic.