Chapter 54 - "Cold Snap" Discussion Thread - 3/23/09

[Mdizzle]

Awesome episode. This season is well rounded! I just hope it keeps getting better instead of it getting really amazing then ending it on a bad note, then the same formula again and again and again.

Ando using his power= B A M F!

I liked this too. Which makes me wonder, what exactly is his power? We've seen his ability to supercharge other ppls' powers, but this combative aspect is something relatively new.

 

[Matt]

Another uneven episode. The plots involving HRG, Danko, Angela, etc are once again top notch. Everything else...not so much. Watching Hiro play baby sitter to a kid who just happens to be the plot device needed to fix his powers (while keeping him conveniently underpowered as well) was cringe worthy as was most of the dialogue between Matt and Daphne (who shouldn't have been killed). Plus the Tracy wink...television needs Razzie awards so that can win worst effect in the history of anything. Plus, why is it they kill Daphne, a character with potential, while leaving Tracy, who has completed a story arc alive? It just doesn't make sense from a story telling perspective and was a bad move.

Also, I'd really like to know why it is, the government has filed on Micah (as Nathan showed the President), Nathan knew Micah exisited from personal experience (Linderman's plot), as did HRG, if I remember right...but no one in the entire top secret government agency said..."Hey, we have this kid who can control computers! Maybe he is Rebel!" I'm not even going to discuss how laughable it is that a 12 year old is manipulating multiple government officials, people, etc and conducting his own private war, as I'll let that go on suspension of disbelief.

But yeah, bottom line...another mixed episode. Some good, some bad. The writers need to stop focusing on silly subplots like the wackiness of Hiro babysitting, and play to their strengths.

 

[Matt]

I think Tracey is that rumored ambiguous death where she's actually dead, but she died in a way for the writers to bring her back with ease if they need her character back.

She winked. I'd say there is little doubt that she's alive.

 

[kane9321]

Mohinder- you sir...are a dumbazz

tracy- what a brilliant use of your powers....NOT. You too are a dumbazz

 

[Ion Kenshin]

Mohinder- you sir...are a dumbazz

That's been true for a while now

tracy- what a brilliant use of your powers....NOT. You too are a dumbazz

Please elaborate

 

[carrrnuttt]

The writers need to stop focusing on silly subplots like the wackiness of Hiro babysitting, and play to their strengths.

http://www.nbc.com/Footer/Contact_Us/

Make sure you select "Heroes" from the dropdown. Tell NBC that you're MUCH smarter than Bryan Fuller, who wrote this whole episode.

That's the "real" forum where your genius plot critiques that aren't episode discussions can be heard. Write as often as you can.

 

[SatEL]

Loved this episode and thought it was fantastic, the best this volume so far by miles. I am glad Peter has really matured and is one to take action now and I am also pleased at the return of Micah/rebel as I always liked the character.

 

[SuperT]

tracy- what a brilliant use of your powers....NOT. You too are a dumbazz

Uuuuuh, what? That was pretty much the best use of anyones powers ever on this show. That was a brilliant scene.

 

[JPC4]

Great ep. And I see we were all on the money about the Rebel being Micah. He's grown up a lot, and for all the nay-sayers who thought a "young kid" couldn't be capable of orchestrating a rebellion, there's the proof. I think he's developed his powers a lot more since we last saw him in season (2?), and maybe that has translated into some added maturity as well. Interesting how he uses his hand-held device to communicate wirelessly with mechanical systems--we never quite knew the extent of his powers, so conceivably, he could access any online systems through the internet or a similar uplink. Interesting stuff, and I'm sure we can expect to see him back again.

Loved how Tracy redeemed herself, and the icing up sequence was excellent. I like how we saw the wink at the end--can she piece herself back together? I have many questions about the limits of her powers. I guess this counts as one of the "fake deaths" expected by the end of the season.

I also enjoyed the sequences with Angela. To me, she never fails to entertain and intrigue. You can tell she's taught herself well how to survive. Didn't really expect Peter to show up in the elevator shaft, but I'm glad he did.

I totally predicted that Matt Jr. would bring back Hiro's powers, at least in part. I'm sure he'll have his powers fully restored by the same means. For that matter, maybe that'll be how Peter gets his empathic mimecry back to full strength.

I think it is going to be a combination of 2 powers which will revive the original powers of people like Hiro and Peter. I don't think it was any coincidence that we saw Ando's powers evolve right before Matt Jr. sorta fixed Hiro. Matt Jr. started the process of "fixing" Hiro's ability, and it will probably take Ando's power to jumpstart the rest. This also would tie nicely into the episode from the last volume where we saw Ando going firecracker on Hiro. It would be a nice twist from the writers if Ando was actually helping Hiro regain his abilities instead of killing him.

 

[Ion Kenshin]

Well it has been stated that time travel will not be used at all this volume so i doubt that Hiro will get that power back. TBH I am okay with that because it just makes things to complicated.

 

[Matt]

Uuuuuh, what? That was pretty much the best use of anyones powers ever on this show. The was brilliant scene.

Yeah, I'm baffled on that one as well. I don't think we've ever seen anyone intentionally use their powers as effectively (outside of Arthur Petrelli and Sylar).

 

[Mdizzle]

Another uneven episode. The plots involving HRG, Danko, Angela, etc are once again top notch. Everything else...not so much. Watching Hiro play baby sitter to a kid who just happens to be the plot device needed to fix his powers (while keeping him conveniently underpowered as well) was cringe worthy as was most of the dialogue between Matt and Daphne (who shouldn't have been killed). Plus the Tracy wink...television needs Razzie awards so that can win worst effect in the history of anything. Plus, why is it they kill Daphne, a character with potential, while leaving Tracy, who has completed a story arc alive? It just doesn't make sense from a story telling perspective and was a bad move.

Also, I'd really like to know why it is, the government has filed on Micah (as Nathan showed the President), Nathan knew Micah exisited from personal experience (Linderman's plot), as did HRG, if I remember right...but no one in the entire top secret government agency said..."Hey, we have this kid who can control computers! Maybe he is Rebel!" I'm not even going to discuss how laughable it is that a 12 year old is manipulating multiple government officials, people, etc and conducting his own private war, as I'll let that go on suspension of disbelief.

To me, Daphne was done plot-wise. Other than a tenuous relationship with Matt, I don't feel she has any other tie-in. While I agree that they could have ended things with Tracy, I wasn't surprised or disappointed that Daphne was killed off instead.

As for Micah being the rebel, I know ppl are going to complain that he's just a kid taking on an organization alone. True, the agency should have had at least some inkling that he exists, or a file or something--I'm going to overlook this simply because, to me, it didn't take away from the ep or the feeling of the show. We've seen that Micah's abilities have been more developed, and while there is always some sense of disbelief that he really would be capable of staging a rebellion on his own, I'll buy this explanation. I had a thought that he was operating under the guidance of someone more "mature" (Angela, a group of rebels), and this hasn't been disproven yet. Either way, I wasn't disappointed by the revelation of Micah as the Rebel.

 

[Mdizzle]

I think it is going to be a combination of 2 powers which will revive the original powers of people like Hiro and Peter. I don't think it was any coincidence that we saw Ando's powers evolve right before Matt Jr. sorta fixed Hiro. Matt Jr. started the process of "fixing" Hiro's ability, and it will probably take Ando's power to jumpstart the rest. This also would tie nicely into the episode from the last volume where we saw Ando going firecracker on Hiro. It would be a nice twist from the writers if Ando was actually helping Hiro regain his abilities instead of killing him.

That's a great theory, and I agree that would be a nice way to tie-in his powers.

What's the deal with the fireball/electricity/red lightning zap thing tho?

 

[SuperT]

I'm totally sad that Daphne is gone, but damn, the way they did it really softened the blow.

One of the best death's I've seen on a show in quite a while. Like I said earlier, I damn near cried myself.

 

[Matt]

To me, Daphne was done plot-wise. Other than a tenuous relationship with Matt, I don't feel she has any other tie-in. While I agree that they could have ended things with Tracy, I wasn't surprised or disappointed that Daphne was killed off instead.

I dunno, she had a connection with Hiro and Ando that could've been explored, plus she was capable of being morally gray. A good character doesn't need to be killed off. They can be developed and get new connections. On top of that, we've spent half a volume trying to save her, only to have her die as soon as she is saved. Tracy on the other hand has completed her plot arc, and come full circle, which would've made her death bitter sweet. Besides, Tracy is less connected to other characters than anyone on the show. Bryan Fueller constantly talks about what close friends he and Larter are. I can't help but wonder if he helped his friend out to keep her job safe because from a story telling perspective, Tracy living while Daphne dies makes zero sense.

As for Micah being the rebel, I know ppl are going to complain that he's just a kid taking on an organization alone. True, the agency should have had at least some inkling that he exists, or a file or something--I'm going to overlook this simply because, to me, it didn't take away from the ep or the feeling of the show. We've seen that Micah's abilities have been more developed, and while there is always some sense of disbelief that he really would be capable of staging a rebellion on his own, I'll buy this explanation. I had a thought that he was operating under the guidance of someone more "mature" (Angela, a group of rebels), and this hasn't been disproven yet. Either way, I wasn't disappointed by the revelation of Micah as the Rebel.

I hope Angela is the brains behind it.

 

[Mdizzle]

I'm totally sad that Daphne is gone, but damn, the way they did it really softened the blow.

One of the best death's I've seen on a show in quite a while. Like I said earlier, I damn near cried myself.

Wonder if Matt's over/will get back with Janice.

 

[Matt]

I'm totally sad that Daphne is gone, but damn, the way they did it really softened the blow.

One of the best death's I've seen on a show in quite a while. Like I said earlier, I damn near cried myself.

Some one didn't see Bill Buchanan's death on 24. But seriously, that is really another thing that irked me about Daphne's death. Unlike Bill's on 24, Daphne's was meaningless. Why did she die? Nothing was sacrificed, nothing was gained from it. The plot has not been moved forward. A character has not been established as particularly strong or vicious by killing her. It hasn't given the viewer a personal stake in seeing Matt get revenge on Danko as it was too far removed from her initial shooting to really connect it to Danko emotionally. She was killed to have someone die, nothing else. And that is bad storytelling.

 

[Mdizzle]

I dunno, she had a connection with Hiro and Ando that could've been explored, plus she was capable of being morally gray. A good character doesn't need to be killed off. They can be developed and get new connections. On top of that, we've spent half a volume trying to save her, only to have her die as soon as she is saved. Tracy on the other hand has completed her plot arc, and come full circle, which would've made her death bitter sweet. Besides, Tracy is less connected to other characters than anyone on the show. Bryan Fueller constantly talks about what close friends he and Larter are. I can't help but wonder if he helped his friend out to keep her job safe because from a story telling perspective, Tracy living while Daphne dies makes zero sense.



I hope Angela is the brains behind it.

I see what you're saying. I dunno, maybe I just never really connected with Daphne as a character, but I guess the same could be said for Tracy.

And I would not be surprised if it's Angela. She's got a hand in almost everything, it seems. Or she at least knows what's going on all the time.

 

[carrrnuttt]

These two statements...

Also, I'd really like to know why it is, the government has filed on Micah (as Nathan showed the President), Nathan knew Micah exisited from personal experience (Linderman's plot), as did HRG, if I remember right...but no one in the entire top secret government agency said..."Hey, we have this kid who can control computers! Maybe he is Rebel!"

I'm not even going to discuss how laughable it is that a 12 year old is manipulating multiple government officials, people, etc and conducting his own private war, as I'll let that go on suspension of disbelief.

...contradict each other. How can you BOTH assume that Micah is capable of being rebel AND assume that he's not capable of it at the same time?

My thought is, the government went with the 2nd half of your assumptions--who knows what the extent of the file on Micah is. Micah was Linderman's experiment, and as such, Linderman might not have divulged his full capabilities to The Company, where the file can only be from. Even when Linderman used Micah to rig Nathan's election, he didn't know that Micah can affect all the voting machines from just one--he thought Candice would have to take him to each machine.

 

[Matt]

I see what you're saying. I dunno, maybe I just never really connected with Daphne as a character, but I guess the same could be said for Tracy.

And I would not be surprised if it's Angela. She's got a hand in almost everything, it seems. Or she at least knows what's going on all the time.

I liked Daphne a lot. I think she added something the show was drastically missing in season 2. Fun.

As for Angela...y'know, I never really liked her...at all. It was like, "get over your cryptic bull **** and pick a side." Then this volume came around and really established her and she came into her own in my opinion. She has become one of my favorites.

 

[Matt]

These two statements...





...contradict each other. How can you BOTH assume that Micah is capable of being rebel AND assume that he's not capable of it at the same time?

My thought is, the government went with the 2nd half of your assumptions--who knows what the extent of the file on Micah is. Micah was Linderman's experiment, and as such, Linderman might not have divulged his full capabilities to The Company, where the file can only be from. Even when Linderman used Micah to rig Nathan's election, he didn't know that Micah can affect all the voting machines from just one--he thought Candice would have to take him to each machine.

If such is the case, it is the writer's job to establish it, not a viewer's to make excuses for poor writing. The fact is, Nathan had a hard copy of a file on Micah (meaning it couldn't just be deleted, as it was on paper) sitting on his lap at the end of volume 3. People know Micah' exisits and must know at least something about his power or they wouldn't have a file on him. Yet no one thinks, "Hey! Its the computer kid!" It is a plot hole until the writers (not you) fill it.

 

[Nivek]

Well then if it's that horrible, take Carrrnuttt's advice, and let NBC know that they don't need to pay Fuller to write if he is doing that bad of a job. There can't be more than 50 people saying the same thing...

 

[Matt]

Well then if it's that horrible, take Carrrnuttt's advice, and let NBC know that they don't need to pay Fuller to write if he is doing that bad of a job. There can't be more than 50 people saying the same thing...

Or we can discuss the good and the bad as fans without resorting to the supremely childish, "IF YOU THINK YOU CAN DO BETTER YOU GO PRODUCE A TV SHOW!" rant.

 

[carrrnuttt]

Or we can discuss the good and the bad as fans without resorting to the supremely childish, "IF YOU THINK YOU CAN DO BETTER YOU GO PRODUCE A TV SHOW!" rant.

Key word. You're not. Never have been. Never had a good thing to say about the show since your first post in these forums. You're not the only naysayer, but you're the most annoying one, and I've been calling you out since that first post of yours in here I read. Notice that you're the only one I ever "call out". All the others are fans that evolved gripes. You have ONLY had gripes since the beginning.

Not only were you never a fan, you became a moderator here. It's like hiring a Camaro driver to moderate a Mustang forum. There's just something inherently wrong about that.

 

[JPC4]

Although I don't like Daphne's death (much like DL's), I think it has more to do with the numbers game. It appears that Matt will be reconnecting with his wife and son, so the writer's may not have wanted to have too many characters/story arcs like they did in season 2.