The Mandalorian Chapter Twelve Spoiler Discussion

[Schlosser85]

At this point in the timeline, the First Order is already being formed by Grand Admiral Rae Sloane off in the Unknown Regions with Hux Sr and Jr, so there’s that.

Realistically there’s a few Imperial Remnants at this point in time:

Rae Sloane’s First Order
The Sith Eternal on Exegol
Thrawn and the Seventh Fleet who knows where.
Gideon and the other warlords in the main galaxy.

Thanks. So I guess that more or less confirms Gideon's faction is not directly connected to the First Order then.

I still wonder if this experiment Gideon is running trying to use the blood of a powerful Force user winds up tying in with the creation of Snoke somehow though.

 

[Gaultheria]

I still wonder if this experiment Gideon is running trying to use the blood of a powerful Force user winds up tying in with the creation of Snoke somehow though.

My guess is that this is the clone plot from the original Thrawn trilogy.

 

[Schlosser85]

My guess is that this is the clone plot from the original Thrawn trilogy.

Ohhh, that's an interesting idea too.

If Gideon needs The Child alive (seemingly), why was Werner Herzog okay with either dead or alive? Or was he just not fully "in the loop"? But it seems like Gideon would have at least specified The Child had to be delivered alive, not just "proof of termination" like Herzog told Mando was acceptable for a lower fee. That'd be useless to Gideon.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Thanks. So I guess that more or less confirms Gideon's faction is not directly connected to the First Order then.

I still wonder if this experiment Gideon is running trying to use the blood of a powerful Force user winds up tying in with the creation of Snoke somehow though.

I mean, I could see that Dr Pershing escaping at the end of the show off to Exegol and using his knowledge to help create Snoke. Boys from Brazil style.

 

[Perfect Cell]

I mean, I could see that Dr Pershing escaping at the end of the show off to Exegol and using his knowledge to help create Snoke. Boys from Brazil style.

Him not being able to reacquire the child would explain why he does such a **** job on Snoke, too.

 

[Schlosser85]

I'm still confused on whether Snoke was an actual sentient being used as a figurehead/decoy/puppet, or was literally a body controlled by Palpatine.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Him not being able to reacquire the child would explain why he does such a **** job on Snoke, too.

It’s practically canon in my mind that Snoke was the best they could do and in a back room on Exegol there’s a deformed Sigourney Weaver Snoke begging for euthanasia.

 

[Perfect Cell]

It’s practically canon in my mind that Snoke was the best they could do and in a back room on Exegol there’s a deformed Sigourney Weaver Snoke begging for euthanasia.

Workplace crunch is a big problem with these Force cults. Too many hard deadlines.

 

[Gaultheria]

Ohhh, that's an interesting idea too.

If Gideon needs The Child alive (seemingly), why was Werner Herzog okay with either dead or alive? Or was he just not fully "in the loop"? But it seems like Gideon would have at least specified The Child had to be delivered alive, not just "proof of termination" like Herzog told Mando was acceptable for a lower fee. That'd be useless to Gideon.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst, or something like that as regards evil ambitions.

It could also be that termination was the desired outcome all along, and that he never expected a bounty hunter to succeed at the more difficult (and more expensive) task. I'd sort of like to think that Herzog's character was secretly working to sabotage Gideon's plans, although I wouldn't expect that to be due to any sort of altruism.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

I mean, who know's how early on Palpatine was planning the First Order. The deformed clone could simply be an early proto-Snoke/Palpatine. Palpatine knew he was going to die one day, by virtue of being alive, it's probably best to make sure a clone body could sustain a high "M-count" as early as possible.

 

[Herolee10]

All this talk of Snoke and the first order possibly being in development already just reminded me of how much Luke had failed to stop in the future.

If only Jon and Dave had been placed in charge of the sequel trilogy.

 

[Iceman]

All this talk of Snoke and the first order possibly being in development already just reminded me of how much Luke had failed to stop in the future.

If only Jon and Dave had been placed in charge of the sequel trilogy.

It is intriguing to think what they could have done with it.

 

[Sithborg]

All this talk of Snoke and the first order possibly being in development already just reminded me of how much Luke had failed to stop in the future.

If only Jon and Dave had been placed in charge of the sequel trilogy.

This argument always confuses me. The existence of the Sequel Trilogy, in any form, is an apparent "failure" of the OT.

 

[Herolee10]

This argument always confuses me. The existence of the Sequel Trilogy, in any form, is an apparent "failure" of the OT.

That's because the creative team behind the ST had no respect for its own source material.

When you watch "Rogue One", "Solo", and even "The Mandalorian", it's easy to tell that the teams behind those productions were fans of the mythology.

Abrams/Johnson/Kennedy shamelessly relied on the nostalgia of the franchise in order to draw in fans to their films, only to spit at the very source material that they were capitalizing on.

Frankly, I have no doubt in my minds that if Jon and Dave had been charge of the ST, things would be so much different now (imho).

 

[Sithborg]

Except the arguments always seem to be that the mere presence of a war in a Star Wars movie post ROTJ means the OT is pointless. So having an episode 7-9 is inherently a failure. I just don't understand it.

 

[Herolee10]

Except the arguments always seem to be that the mere presence of a war in a Star Wars movie post ROTJ means the OT is pointless. So having an episode 7-9 is inherently a failure. I just don't understand it.

Hmm... really? That's actually the first time I'm hearing it.

I didn't realize that anyone was against the idea of new conflicts emerging within the SW universe, post ROTJ.

Back when "Legends" was still considered to be the (unofficial) canon to the SW lore, there were numerous new enemies/threats that the New Republic faced after the fall of the Empire. I had previously hoped that Disney would bring in the likes of the Vong as the main villains for the ST and not a redux version of the Empire.

 

[thangaran]

My man Carl Weathers did a phenomenal job directing this action heavy yet tightly written script. Wow thar bloke is talented!! Fantastic job. Only weak point was Gina Carano. She has excellent physical presence but just cannot deliver the most basic of lines. They limited her dialogue down big time and even that she just acted poorly.

Past 2 episodes were awesome!

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Gonna do another "live' watch post. A meal and Mando on a dead night at the job. Here we go...

1. Things must be pretty bad if Mando has BabyYo doing delicate repair work. And apparently dangerous stuff at that? Seems... WAY out of character just for the joke.

2. Jesus Christ is this going on for too long. And as always... the longer the camera dwells on BabyYo the more obvious it's fakeness. Yeah it's great and all the "eye" sees something that's really there... And what's really there is freaking puppet.

3. Yeah... The Razor Crest needs professional help on a grand scale. Off to Navarro.

4. Ugh... These guys in the old Mando hideout? How do they even eat weasel? With THOSE mouths? Gonna puree it?

5. Cara is "the Marshal". Eat your heart out Brienne of Tarth, huh? They just hand out that title like nothing? She a one woman operation or she have a posse? Would make more sense for her to have organized a group of deputies I think. What... Does every badass get a cute sidekick character? Cara and Weasel gonna be a spinoff? What is this? G.I. Joe?

6. Again... While nice to see Greef and Cara again, some stuff feels very hand wavy. Again... I think it makes more sense for Cara to have an organized "Watch". And I'm sorry but wild space or whatever, without the New Republic there's no way to guarantee the stability the people of this world are obviously interested in. Counting on wayward Warrior Bounty Hunters in need of help is no way to run a planet.

7. Ugh... This food stuff with BabyYo... WTF? Stahhhhp.

8. It's funny how SW stuff so often goes to the same well that now you expect it. Mando lands and the whole time I'm going "Somebody is gonna pull a Lando... Somebody is gonna pull a Lando..." and then... Horatio Sanz shows up. I know a Lando when I see one.

9. Embezzler or not... Keep pushing this guy in a desperate situation and see how that pays off. Great bit with the falling trooper and an appearance of the Wilhem scream.


10. So this base is a genetics or similar lab. Are those mishapen BabyYos or... Snokes? So Moff Gideon and the Doctor had BabyYo before? And used its blood for something and now want it back? Rewound a few times... Did it sound to anyone else like the doctor was referring to not just BabyYo but a parent of some kind as well?

11. Is it just me or is a lot of this episode feel... More cartoony than ever? A lot of the last three felt less like live action writing and way more like animated kids fare in many ways. Sure, we are getting more "violence" but... there's a texture missing in a lot of stuff and here it all feels too breezy and a underwritten/conceptualized. Again... Fine for animated stuff, but it feels off in live action to me.

12. So, there's no doubt now... The Empire did away with whatever the Republic analog of OSHA was.

13. "Forecast today: Cloudy with a chance of Stormtroopers."

14. Well... I hope Mithral gets to keep the combat transport in exchange for his speeder.

15. Oh hell yeah with that Biker Scout shot!

16. I honestly thought for a moment the Imps would be able to override the cooling system shut down.

17. Occurs to me that the "town" probably wouldn't be able to fend off a small squadron of TIES. Again... Kinda need the Republic's protection out here is seems to me.

18. Nice to see the Crest flying but... Seriously it was like a few hours to fix it on a place like Navarro? Also, Mando took pilot lessons from Wash apparently.

19. Thank YOU! At some point Rebellion has to be in the service of something especially after overthrowing an unjust regime. You want peace and a just order or chaos and an environment for a power like the Empire/First Order to come into?

20. The Moff has a cadre of Cyborg Troopers eh? I wonder if he knew Galen Erso or ran into him at any point?


Well... I wasn't blown away by the episode. It still feels like... Filler with some stuff scattered about for future episodes (Mithral's place with Greef maybe? Cara's whistful look at the symbol of the Repbublic on that transmitor given her... For sure.) with a lot of focus on the action sequences to make it all go down smooth. Again, not terrible, and we moved our mysteries forward a bit. But... Things still feel stuck in a holding pattern. I'm sorry but that's how it feels right now to me.

 

[samsnee]

At this point in the timeline, the First Order is already being formed by Grand Admiral Rae Sloane off in the Unknown Regions with Hux Sr and Jr, so there’s that.

Realistically there’s a few Imperial Remnants at this point in time:

Rae Sloane’s First Order
The Sith Eternal on Exegol
Thrawn and the Seventh Fleet who knows where.
Gideon and the other warlords in the main galaxy.

But who’s paying to build the ships?

 

[Herolee10]

A person pointed this out elsewhere but you can see the arm of a person (production assistant) standing in the corner, on the far left side of the photo.

 

[Roose Bolton]

But who’s paying to build the ships?

It’s all being taken care of by good old fashioned colonialism and slavery.

 

[Sithborg]

At this point in the timeline, the First Order is already being formed by Grand Admiral Rae Sloane off in the Unknown Regions with Hux Sr and Jr, so there’s that.

Realistically there’s a few Imperial Remnants at this point in time:

Rae Sloane’s First Order
The Sith Eternal on Exegol
Thrawn and the Seventh Fleet who knows where.
Gideon and the other warlords in the main galaxy.

I think it is too early to discount any connection between Sloane and Gideon. Gideon and his crew are quite proto-First Order in how they behave.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I think it is too early to discount any connection between Sloane and Gideon. Gideon and his crew are quite proto-First Order in how they behave.

I don’t think suicidal zealotry is specific to the First Order. There have been plenty examples of it in both canon and legends works.

 

[BlackFox]

Another superb episode, perhaps even better than the last but thats semantics, the main thing is the 2nd season is living up to the first and expanding in many ways on things the films have struggled with a bit in knowing how to do non-Skywalker material. The effects are film quality and the whole episode gave off a lot of "Dark Forces" vibes when they were in the base. Fantastic stuff.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

All this talk of Snoke and the first order possibly being in development already just reminded me of how much Luke had failed to stop in the future.

If only Jon and Dave had been placed in charge of the sequel trilogy.

Because as history shows... When the good guys win it's always forever and ever and ever, right?