Child Labor in undeveloped countries can be a good thing.

[Man-Thing]

When I was growing up living on a farm I had many "chores" that on average I estimate took an average of ten hours to complete daily. This along with school (of which I had perfect attendence 9 years out of 13). Modern victicrats would consider this WORK a violation in child labor laws. The work was hard, dangerous and I would be chastized if not completed on time or correctly by my Father (an example would be being knocked down for complaining). I had no choice but to do it, I couldn't quit and most of all I couldn't complain. There was no wage but the security of a roof, clothes and food.

Anyway through all of my expeirence through hard work growing up there remains now absolutley no bitterness on my part to my parents. Infact I think that is the way it should be- children should be taught early on that hard work is the acceptable good that all should acheive for. This is why I have a problem with child labor laws.

Out of greed disguised as compassion many in the Western World consider it a travesty if a young child has to do hard work. This is just silly, and it is infact greedy because through the influence of groups like labour unions, workers rights organizations and boycotting citizens, pressure is being placed upon third world countries to eliminate child labour. I understand the reasoning behind it as I was once in that mindset, but to deny a family who would otherwise be starving the essentials of food, everything including their education becomes a moot point.

I hope many people reconsider their views on child labour. Of course no one is for horrible acts like child prostitution, but to limit a family's income because it just makes you feel better is evil IMO.

Discuss...

 

[Spider-Nerd]

ho dear.........

 

[Spider-Bite]

they shouldn't be in a position in the first place where they need their children to do these things to survive. and it's quite possible that the abuse you suffered as a child will now lead you to do the same to your own children. It might even be the reason you vote republican.

10 hours a day? combined with 8 hours a day at school? So that leaves 6 hours a day for getting dressed eating, and trying to find time for social development?

I'm sorry man. You were abused. And i'm not trying to diss myself or everybody else who is here, but there is a reason we have post counts of thousands at message boards. You were abused physically and your need for free time with peers your age for social development was neglected, and it's effecting you to this day.

I know that probably sounds offensive, and I'm not doing it for the sake of being offensive, or intending to insult your parents, but you are a victim of child abuse.

 

[Addendum]

Working on a farm, or doing chores around the house is a separate thing from employing a child in a textile factory, steel mill, coal mine, or sweatshop.

Child Laborer, Newberry, S.C. 1908. The overseer said apologetically, "She just happened in."

And if a family is starving, they should consider Jonathan Swift's "Modest Proposal"

 

[Man-Thing]

Haha, I wasn't abused. Each and every time I was disiplined it was done so for correction, not out of anger. I was never hurt badly and being knocked down doesn't constitute abuse when you are in danger of being trampled by a 1,200 lb Angus bull.

I have posted here since 2003, and my post count reflects it's not that much. I like this board and most of the people here, I never use it as an outlet to rid myself of my pain. I use it to rant and just as you said to socialize with people of whom I wouldn't normally have the everyday opertunity to do so.

Oh, and I'm a libertarian BTW.

 

[Man-Thing]

Working on a farm, or doing chores around the house is a separate thing from employing a child in a textile factory, steel mill, coal mine, or sweatshop.

Child Laborer, Newberry, S.C. 1908. The overseer said apologetically, "She just happened in."

So what's your point?

Yeah I already get that it's not great that some children in the world don't get to sit around and play playstation 6 hrs a day... Oh the TRAVESTY!!!

Working hard and suffering for it, is a lot better that the cruel death of starvation.

 

[Addendum]

So what's your point?

Yeah I already get that it's not great that some children in the world don't get to sit around and play playstation 6 hrs a day... Oh the TRAVESTY!!!

Working hard and suffering for it, is a lot better that the cruel death of starvation.

If you can't understand that children doing chores around the house is perfectly natural and to be expected, why bother continuing?

I never said that kids should waste time on videogames. Rather, they should be allowed to be kids. A balance between having fun, learning responsibility through helping around the house, and going to school to learn.

 

[hippie_hunter]

they shouldn't be in a position in the first place where they need their children to do these things to survive. and it's quite possible that the abuse you suffered as a child will now lead you to do the same to your own children. It might even be the reason you vote republican.

10 hours a day? combined with 8 hours a day at school? So that leaves 6 hours a day for getting dressed eating, and trying to find time for social development?

I'm sorry man. You were abused. And i'm not trying to diss myself or everybody else who is here, but there is a reason we have post counts of thousands at message boards. You were abused physically and your need for free time with peers your age for social development was neglected, and it's effecting you to this day.

I know that probably sounds offensive, and I'm not doing it for the sake of being offensive, or intending to insult your parents, but you are a victim of child abuse.

I wouldn't say that Man-Thing was abused. Having your own kid work with you doing chores on a farm is not child labor. A kid working on his parents farm is a natural and reasonable thing. And the way you say "vote Republican" sounds like an insult.

Though the way Man-Thing puts child labor as a good thing is totally wrong. A child should have to go out to look for work. A child shouldn't have the responsibility of having to put food on the table. A child shouldn't be working in some damn sweatshop, coal mine, or factory, working for ten cents an hour. A child should be able to grow up and learn how to live and enjoy life. A child should have fun. A child should have a childhood.

I tend to be anti-union, but damn, even I don't beleive that a company has such a right to exploit a child, let alone a human being.

 

[Spider-Bite]

I wouldn't say that Man-Thing was abused. Having your own kid work with you doing chores on a farm is not child labor. A kid working on his parents farm is a natural and reasonable thing. And the way you say "vote Republican" sounds like an insult.

Though the way Man-Thing puts child labor as a good thing is totally wrong. A child should have to go out to look for work. A child shouldn't have the responsibility of having to put food on the table. A child shouldn't be working in some damn sweatshop, coal mine, or factory, working for ten cents an hour. A child should be able to grow up and learn how to live and enjoy life. A child should have fun. A child should have a childhood.

I tend to be anti-union, but damn, even I don't beleive that a company has such a right to exploit a child, let alone a human being.

The reason for the jab about voting republican came from his comments in the other thread which sort of pointed to him feeling that the government should just let everybody fend for themselves. It just doesn't sound very compassionate to me.

But he claims he performed 10 hours a day of hard labour. That is child abuse in my book. So is beating a kid into working harder. Anybody with enough money to buy all that farm land can afford to hire a few workers.

 

[The Overlord]

Man-Thing, how is third world children working in a Nike factory in unsafe conditions for 5 cents an hour, instead of going to school and learning important skills that could improve their country a good thing?

I'm sure when you were working as a farm hand, do breathe in fumes that made you sick or did you lose a limb? I bet your fram was way afer then these factories. If you're so moral why do support immoral parctice?

Why don't these companies hire adults at a decent wage, if their as moral as you claim them to be? Theese sweat shops do nothing, but support the local dictatorships that run these countries (unless you think China, Burma and Vietnam are human rights leaders now) and keep the public their poor and enslaved by these tyrants. This is almost like slavery, corporations are buying resources from tyrants who stole those resources from their people. Since these governments have no concern over the safety and welfare of their people, they treated like slaves and sold like slaves to immoral companies who would do with these murderous tyrants. This practice promotes poverty, exploitation of children, oppression and corruption, how can you say its moral any level?

 

[hippie_hunter]

The reason for the jab about voting republican came from his comments in the other thread which sort of pointed to him feeling that the government should just let everybody fend for themselves. It just doesn't sound very compassionate to me.

It's not the government's responsibilty to bottle feed its people. Government should help people get up and stand up when they are down, but it's up to the person themselves to walk the walk.

But he claims he performed 10 hours a day of hard labour. That is child abuse in my book. So is beating a kid into working harder. Anybody with enough money to buy all that farm land can afford to hire a few workers.

The labor is not child abuse on account that it's a farm. The beating part on the other hand....

 

[Spider-Bite]

It's not the government's responsibilty to bottle feed its people. Government should help people get up and stand up when they are down, but it's up to the person themselves to walk the walk.


The labor is not child abuse on account that it's a farm. The beating part on the other hand....

many scientists believe that the reason the cro-magnons successfully wiped out the neandertauls was their ability to organize and communicate which helped them work together as a group instead of as individuals.

We have this ability to work together as a society and it would be unwise to waste it.

 

[Addendum]

Our society is overrated pop propaganda bull****

 

[blind_fury]

Man this is a new low, Man-thing. I expect a "bring back the slavery" thread to follow.

The reason children aren't offered work is because they're too young to understand whether they're being exploited or not. It's also a reason they shouldn't have sex with adults.

 

[hippie_hunter]

many scientists believe that the reason the cro-magnons successfully wiped out the neandertauls was their ability to organize and communicate which helped them work together as a group instead of as individuals.

We have this ability to work together as a society and it would be unwise to waste it.

That was a group of individuals working together. That's a big difference between a group of people working and a non-living entity like the government spoon-feeding people.

There's nothing wrong with people working together, helping each other. I beleive in the maximization of the potential of the individual. I beleive that things such as too much dependence on government social programs such as welfare, unemployment, etc. hinders such a thing. A group that has a bunch of people who have maximized their potential is far better than a group of people who have been spoon-fed.

 

[The Overlord]

So what's your point?

Yeah I already get that it's not great that some children in the world don't get to sit around and play playstation 6 hrs a day... Oh the TRAVESTY!!!

Working hard and suffering for it, is a lot better that the cruel death of starvation.

So kids not going to school and labouring to support the economy that sustains a dictatorship is better how?

I guess the oil companies who did buniness with the Sudanese regime, shouldn't feel bad that the money they invested there is being used support genocide there? Do you have any respect for human rights?

Man Thing "Mister small government" himself, supports policies that keep dictatorships in power and keeps people oppressed. Don't you see the contradiction there?

 

[Man-Thing]

You are all missing my point entirely. I'm not saying it's a great thing that children are working in sweat shops, and you are all correct in saying that children should be able to be children and play, but we live in an imperfect world, and the fact is children in this world are sometimes required to work hard labor to support family members who can't work. I'm not saying that the west shouldn't try and influence these typical underdeveloped countries to improve their standards, but sometimes these children must work or face starvation.

To have to work while a child is a horrible horrible thing, but to starve to death as a child through the interference of developed societies all the while trying to help those children is much more horrible.

Death by starvation is IMO the most horrible death that can happen especially to a child. It trumps out long work hours, abuse, and so many other unpleasant humiliating things that accompany child labor in undeveloped countries.

Companies like Nike who have done child labour in the past have initiated an evil at the harm of children. But when Nike takes away that busisness, the child is sometimes left with nothing to eat. This IMO is more evil that what Nike done.

Basically what I'm saying is...

The Evil that Nike done to children in underdeveloped countries by having them work<The evil of taking away food from a child by closing down sweatshops.

 

[Man-Thing]

So kids not going to school and labouring to support the economy that sustains a dictatorship is better how?

I guess the oil companies who did buniness with the Sudanese regime, shouldn't feel bad that the money they invested there is being used support genocide there? Do you have any respect for human rights?

Man Thing "Mister small government" himself, supports policies that keep dictatorships in power and keeps people oppressed. Don't you see the contradiction there?

Being oppressed is better than starvation to a child. If a child can eat, but still be abused however it is evil, it is so much better than starving to death.

 

[Kyalesyin]

Childhood is a stage created by society. Children in rich western countries are only incapable of doing anything for themselves because they aren't allowed to. Come on- if kids weren't told 'you're too young to do that' or 'you can't do that without help' and just allowed to get on with it there would be nothing stopping them.

Sweatshops are a dodgy issue, as is slave labour, but if a child can help run the family business, or if their parents aren't being paid enough, who are we to meddle? Its not our place to say when we don't know all the reasons. My grandfather was out on a fishing trawler from ten years old, mending nets, and he was damn proud of the fact that he was capable of earning his own money.

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

Sweatshops are a dodgy issue, as is slave labour, but if a child can help run the family business, or if their parents aren't being paid enough, who are we to meddle? Its not our place to say when we don't know all the reasons. My grandfather was out on a fishing trawler from ten years old, mending nets, and he was damn proud of the fact that he was capable of earning his own money.

The fact is that children should go to school or play, instead of sewing Nike shoes for a dollar a day of 12 hours of work, when the same shoes are sold for more than 100 $. Or painting HeroClix for 30year old American children to play.

 

[Kyalesyin]

The fact is that children should go to school or play, instead of sewing Nike shoes for a dollar a day of 12 hours of work, when the same shoes are sold for more than 100 $. Or painting HeroClix for 30year old American children to play.

As I said, sweatshops are a dodgy issue, but play is learnt and not a necessity and if education is unavailable and its that or starve, I know which I'd prefer.

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

As I said, sweatshops are a dodgy issue, but play is learnt and not a necessity and if education is unavailable and its that or starve, I know which I'd prefer.

If Western (and Eastern) companies paid their parents adequate sums of money, the children shouldn't be forced to work 12-14 hours a day.

 

[Kyalesyin]

If Western (and Eastern) companies paid their parents adequate sums of money, the children shouldn't be forced to work 12-14 hours a day.

See, this is why I specifically said farms and family businesses in my original post. Yes, I agree that factories need to pay more and children shouldn't have to work, but only a small proportion of the worlds child labour happens in western sweatshops. A lot more is in family economies- children who work in their father's garage because he needs an extra pair of hands, children who push carts at quarries to free up an adult to do heavier work, that sort of thing.

 

[November Rain]

they shouldn't be in a position in the first place where they need their children to do these things to survive. and it's quite possible that the abuse you suffered as a child will now lead you to do the same to your own children. It might even be the reason you vote republican.

10 hours a day? combined with 8 hours a day at school? So that leaves 6 hours a day for getting dressed eating, and trying to find time for social development?

I'm sorry man. You were abused. And i'm not trying to diss myself or everybody else who is here, but there is a reason we have post counts of thousands at message boards. You were abused physically and your need for free time with peers your age for social development was neglected, and it's effecting you to this day.

I know that probably sounds offensive, and I'm not doing it for the sake of being offensive, or intending to insult your parents, but you are a victim of child abuse.

er... this is pretty off dude...

 

[November Rain]

When I was growing up living on a farm I had many "chores" that on average I estimate took an average of ten hours to complete daily. This along with school (of which I had perfect attendence 9 years out of 13). Modern victicrats would consider this WORK a violation in child labor laws. The work was hard, dangerous and I would be chastized if not completed on time or correctly by my Father (an example would be being knocked down for complaining). I had no choice but to do it, I couldn't quit and most of all I couldn't complain. There was no wage but the security of a roof, clothes and food.

Anyway through all of my expeirence through hard work growing up there remains now absolutley no bitterness on my part to my parents. Infact I think that is the way it should be- children should be taught early on that hard work is the acceptable good that all should acheive for. This is why I have a problem with child labor laws.

Out of greed disguised as compassion many in the Western World consider it a travesty if a young child has to do hard work. This is just silly, and it is infact greedy because through the influence of groups like labour unions, workers rights organizations and boycotting citizens, pressure is being placed upon third world countries to eliminate child labour. I understand the reasoning behind it as I was once in that mindset, but to deny a family who would otherwise be starving the essentials of food, everything including their education becomes a moot point.

I hope many people reconsider their views on child labour. Of course no one is for horrible acts like child prostitution, but to limit a family's income because it just makes you feel better is evil IMO.

Discuss...

Alright I think you may have mixed up two things.


the point you are trying to get at is probably that western society takes far too much time for their youngsters to mature into what we consider to be adults and also when it comes to taking on roles of responsibility.

This I can agree with. The whole 'kids need to be kids' idea holds society back. While you use work, I use the slow progression of education and skills as an example. There is degree based information that could easily be taught to a 14/15 year old in my eyes but i feel the whole curriculum is purposely slack to allow for social interactions, yet at university, this level of work never affects one's ability to interact with others so it's really a double standard.


but unfortunately working full time at such a young age limits a child's ability to educate and better themselves and the short term gain of money and food on the table loses out to the long term gain of educating a large proportion of a generation that would enable them to better themselves and their societies in the long run and this i feel is somewhat wrong.

consider your very own scenario but instead, you didn't have the opportunity to go to school and thus wouldn't have the opportunity to voice the same opinion as you have now since you would be illiterate and unskilled.

that's the major difference man-thing. Your attempt to correlate your condition to those other children is off and has tainted your perceptions of the reality of what actually goes on.