Childish Spidey 3 vs Corny FF2

[odiin]

Thank you, why can't people understand this basic concept. It's as if fans are being driven by film critics these days. The critics say Spiderman 2 is a cinematic masterpiece, and the fans rejoice, Raimi is considered a god. Critics pan Spiderman 3, fans cry like little confused puppies, Raimi is "discovered" to not be as godly as he was once thought to be. Seriously, the world would be a better place if people weren't so dependent on the opinions of others.

I know what you mean, it's just like even though people liked the first 2 x-men movies, when Superman Returns came out and it wasn't as good as they had hoped suddenly everyone is like "Bryan Singer sucks! worst director ever, never let him touch another movie ever again!!!!" I think that's ridiculous, but it doesn't change the fact that I think Spider-Man 3 was a terrible movie, but it doesn't change the fact either, that Sam Raimi is STILL a good director, he just did one movie that I didn't care for, so what?

 

[SupaFresh208]

Why does Fantastic Four 2 suck again? Someone explain that to me, if anyone and I mean anyone has read the original fantastic four comics you would know that the movie was dead on with the comics. Someone said the FF were corny, back then they were deemed the world's first family superhero team. My pops read both the FF and SS comics and he said it was dead on. The only complaint I have about the movie was the fact that it was 90minutes.

For the love of GOD if someone talks about SM3 again and how bad it sucked I, mean its ridiculous. Did it have flaws? Yes! Me, personally liked the movie but everyone has an opinion. Someone said their tired of these movies being aimed at kids >>> WOW, do you listen to yourself when you b!tch and moan. Its a superhero movie what do you expect?

 

[DACrowe]

Why are people so against SM3 dwelling on the characters? I mean complaints about a rushed pace and too many plot devices (the team-up, the butler, etc.) I can understand. But most of these complaints are on the silly side with either too much talking or too much dancing.

Anyway, I don't think FF2 is a terrible movie. But a mediocre one that I enjoy? It just about is.

I say that because it is breezy summer entertainment. It is making your smile as mind numbing entertainment for 90 minutes. It then ends you get up and forget the entire movie within a few minutes and what happened within a week.

To be more percise it was a well oiled commerical. And I'm not talking about how there was product placement every 30 seconds (it got pretty ridiculous with the Dodge logo on the Fantasticar and in middle of the climax Johnny asking if it had their pattented engine with Reed Richards going "of course")....No, I'm talking about how it was and advertisement for action figures.

The first 20 minutes played like a sitcom. It had a TV show introduction in the titles and the jokes about celeberities and set-ups for one-liners felt like the show FRIENDS with super powers. There is no emotion and you really don't care for these characters. They amuse you and entertain you, but they have no depth. The two exceptions being when Johnny comments about Sue on her wedding day and when Sue talks to Silver Surfer about his past.

And while Silver Surfer is beyond awesome, fans of the original FF comics have to be disappointed. Where are his sililoquies and monologues about the evils of humanity that should be punished and then realizing humanity wants to live together and work together in peace. It is like a reverse THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL. All we got was him thinking Jessica Alba was hot and after she "died" he said he'd fight the cloud. Speaking of "faithfulness" let's not even go into Galactus.

And the movie has no pacing. SM3 may feel rushed in the third act but each scene builds and there is suspense. FF2 is a series of scenes that fails to keep interest as each starts and stops like a sitcom situation. They are set pieces that arel oosely connected. The action scenes save for the Torch/Surfer chase and the Surfer vs. cloud scene (which were both all CGI, anyway) was completel yboring. Story puts no excitement in it or suspense. Was anyone scared for Sue Storm when she died? Was there any suspense if the Four could stop Doom?

Oh and speaking of plot devices and clichés, why would the general side with a known killer with super powers over the Four? Even if he was desperate why would he have the Four locked up while letting a known psychopath walk around with only one guard in his base knowing the dude had superpowers. When Doom turns on him it was like an "Oh, DUH!!!!!!!" moment.


It is meant to be disposable but empty fun. Hardly the Lee/Kirby opus of the comics.

That is why FF2 may be fun, but it is a mediocre movie.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

They both sucked.

Why ? Mainly because of the scripts they had.

No, really, think about it. Had any of you been in cinema school, and gave one of those two scripts for a final exams, you would have failed the class. It's really that simple.

Sad that these people are given so many millions when they cannot even get right the very first step into making their movies.

 

[lordofthenerds]

Close call, but I'd have to say Spidey 3.

 

[blind_fury]

FF2 captured the characters better than SM3 imo.

Silver Surfer was portrayed very accurately. Something people take for granted. I love every scene Silver Surfer was in. He was so sad and noble and his action scenes where straight out a comic. When he knocks the missile to the side and wipes out the military with one strike the whole theater gasped.

And Ben was awesome in the movie. He wasn't just a sad sack who felt sorry for himself. He was far more complex, funny, and heroic. Sue wanted Reed to focus on their relationship even though the fate of the world was at stake. Just like the comics. Johnny wasn't just a hot shot but learned what it was like to be in someone else's shoes and as a result learned to be better hero and even saved the day. The climax with Doom with everbody zooming around was like riding a roller coaster. Geat stuff.

Doom was much improved but still not the Doom we all know and love. Galactus was changed but not ruined. When you see the giant space storm about to consume the planet it looks horrific and apocalyptic.

FF2 is terribly underrated and if it was directed by someone else it would get alot more love on the hype.

 

[DACrowe]

I will actually say that in terms of faithfulness, FF2 does some things better. Though I wouldn't be one to complain about Venom after seeing Galactus.

And I agree Surfer was awesome. But his arc is superficial and shallow. He thinks Jessica Alba looks like his former love (which means he like everyone else thinks she's hot) and when she gets injured decides to go stop Galactus....REALLY easily. There is no conflict. No judgement decrees on human society or Surfer learning the beauty of humanity. While he was cool and faithful and the biggest kick I've gotten out of an adapted character from a comic movie since Doc Ock...he just didn't have much depth.

And that goes for all the characters. The Thing was really in the background in this movie. He and Johnny had some funny moments. But it was all so...mundane. So sitcomish.

And just as studying the film FF2 is not very well made in the technical sense in that it lacks solid cinematography or a narrative pacing that sustains mood or raises suspense. It is a series of events that are loosely strung together like...well a sitcom that just happens to also be an action movie. It's hallow.

But I suppose I'd agree that on the surface it is more faithful. But Lee/Kirby's Silver Surfer/Galactus trials were epic. This movie is dumb fun to laugh with. Not really the spirit of what Lee was shooting for. Lord knows, SM3 has its faults. It is easily the weakest of the three and suffers from a rushed third act and too much going on that leaves certain angles (aka Eddie Brock's backstory and Flint Marko's family) underdeveloped or at least underexplored in the latter's case.

But it had some artistic integrity. And at the end of the day Raimi (even if you think he failed miserably) had something to say with his movie. Story made a commercial.

I guess that's my problem with it, really.

 

[KangConquers]

The Tim Story bashing is old.

FF2 is a good but some people won't give him credit because of his reputation.

If he hadn't butchered Galactus AND Doctor Doom, I would give him all the credit in the world.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Seriously the only problems with Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer is that they turned Galactus into a f**king cloud and another s***ty adaptation of Dr. Doom. Other than that, it was pretty fun. Nothing great or spectacular, but fun.

As blind_fury said, people are only hating on it simply because of Tim Story, director of the craptastic Barbershop and Taxi along with the mediocre first Fantastic Four movie.

 

[Hound89]

Stop callign Galctus a cloud He Was A STORM, A UNSTOPABLE FORCE OF NATURE

less Galactus more GAH LAK TUS

 

[Gilpesh]

This poll is like asking someone, "hey, you wanna get punched in the balls or kicked in the balls?"

 

[blind_fury]

This poll is like asking someone, "hey, you wanna get punched in the balls or kicked in the balls?"

FF2 should be in everybody's top 5 marvel movies. At least it deserves to be.

Comic book accuracy is pretty good for most of the characters. The movie is enjoyable and has good replay value. Better than most comic book movies. The Silver Surfer scenes are awesome and so was the Doom climax battle. It's just a fun comic book movie that's cool to watch with friends and family.

I mean if you feel nothing when the Surfer brings Sue back to life then speeds off into the heavens to sacrifice himself to stop Galactus then maybe the Fantastic Four isn't for you. It was pretty cool. t:

 

[hippie_hunter]

Stop callign Galctus a cloud He Was A STORM, A UNSTOPABLE FORCE OF NATURE

less Galactus more GAH LAK TUS

He was a f**king cloud that POSSIBLY had him in it. Overall, he was a lame stupid cloud.

 

[hippie_hunter]

FF2 should be in everybody's top 5 marvel movies. At least it deserves to be.

Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer was good, but it certainly doesn't go in the top 5. I rank it at 8.

1. Spider-Man 2
2. X2: X-Men United
3. Spider-Man
4. X-Men
5. Daredevil (Director's Cut, not the s**tty Theatrical Cut)
6. the Punisher
7. Spider-Man 3
8. Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer
9. Hulk
10. Blade
11. Blade II
12. Ghost Rider
13. Fantastic Four
14. X-Men: The Last Stand
15. Elektra

 

[Gilpesh]

FF2 should be in everybody's top 5 marvel movies. At least it deserves to be.

Um. I only watched the first one when it hit cable and called it passable only cause I turned my brain off. So I'm not spending any money to see FF2.

 

[blind_fury]

Um. I only watched the first one when it hit cable and called it passable only cause I turned my brain off. So I'm not spending any money to see FF2.

I hated the first one with a passion but the sequel is one of my favorite marvel movies. You may not enjoy it as much as I did but it's still well worth watching if you like the Silver Surfer.

You've probably wasted alot more money and things far less enjoyable.

 

[hippie_hunter]

It's certainly worth a check at least.

 

[SurfDUI]

Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer was good, but it certainly doesn't go in the top 5. I rank it at 8.

1. Spider-Man 2
2. X2: X-Men United
3. Spider-Man
4. X-Men
5. Daredevil (Director's Cut, not the s**tty Theatrical Cut)
6. the Punisher
7. Spider-Man 3
8. Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer
9. Hulk
10. Blade
11. Blade II
12. Ghost Rider
13. Fantastic Four
14. X-Men: The Last Stand
15. Elektra

2 points for trying...Blade II somhow belongs on another list, like outside of just Marvel stuff-Del Toro is the man. FFROTSS was better than X-Men 1...wasn't it ...A wayy better third act at least....and know way Hulk belongs here...there went your list.

 

[DACrowe]

I won't reiterate what I've already posted but I don't see why *everyone* should rate FFROTSS as one of the five best Marvel movies (even if many are crap). It may be on the surface faithful to the comics (albeit they rape Dr. Doom and Galactus, two of the greatest Marvel villains of all time, not to mention the tone and depth of the Lee/Kirby stories)...but it is just not a very well made movie.

It is bland and uninspired with about as much depth as a kiddie pool that hasn't been refilled in a year. And I think good movies should be what we ask for first.

Anyway, my best of list:

The Good:

1. Spider-Man 2
2. Spider-Man
3. X2
4. X-Men
5. Spider-Man 3

The decent/....okay...I guess:
6. Daredevil (director's cut)
7. Blade II
8. The Hulk
9. Blade
10. Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer

THE BAD:

11. The Punisher (2004)
12. X3: X-Men the Last Stand (yeah, right)
13. Fantastic Four
14. Blade Trinity
15. Elektra
16. Ghost Rider
17. The Punisher (1989)

I can safely say I've avoided ever seeing Howard the Duck, fortunately.

 

[blind_fury]

FF2 had some great moments that people take completely for granted. Did it capture the Kirby/Lee comics perfectly? No, but neither has any other comic book movie. Why hold Tim Story to a higher standard?

SM3 not only strayed from the comics it had alot of crap that didn't add anything to the story/characters that just wasted people's time and bored them to tears.(2 MJ singing scenes? forced but useless Gwen Stacy cameo?) If you cut it down 30 minutes it might have the replay value of FF2.

Also when Reed is teary eyed because Sue died trying to protect the Surfer it wasn't unintentionally funny like Tobey Maguire crying in SM3. Then you have the parts in SM3 that are intended to be funny which end up being dumb and awkward. Dark Spidey being an emo goof ball? Most people thought that stuff was painful to watch. Also few of the action scenes resonate in SM3 because they seem contrived. Most of the action scenes in FF2 were important for character development or to build up toward the basic yet effective climax. Everything falls into place. SM3 is a convoluted mess that's frustrating to watch even as a fan.

 

[SurfDUI]

FF2 had some great moments that people take completely for granted. Did it capture the Kirby/Lee comics perfectly? No, but neither has any other comic book movie. Why hold Tim Story to a higher standard?

Proof the world has not gone completley crazy

 

[DACrowe]

blind_fury we'll likely disagree so I'll keep it short and to to the point. But first let me say I do respect your opinion and am not trying to pick a fight, however.

I think SM captured its comics point of view more than FF2 did. And at the end of the day I am not harder on one or the other because of director. I'm harder on one because it is made at a lower standard. FF2 is a mindless movie made to help studios print money and nothing more. SM3 was vindicated by artistic values not present in FF2.

Other than that I disagree about most of what you say. SM3 has better action that has suspense and is not bland like the ferris wheel sequence. I would say FF2 has no character development. Character development is those "boring unnecessary" scenes you seem to hate. Like Peter watching MJ singing or at the end the two of them bonding where they began in the third movie but also the first and silently reconciling. FF2's idea of character development is Johnny Storm trying to get logos on the suits so they can push Pepsi and Dodge more than they already do.

FF movies are music videos.

Lastly, I thought the dancing in SM3 was funny. To each their own, but it stems from if you like Sam Raimi's style of comedy (see Darkman and Army of Darkness or not). But I'd take it over the sticom feel of the first 20 minutes of FF2, which includes, Reed Richards dancing ina dorky geeky way.

 

[SurfDUI]

SM3 was vindicated by artistic values

...Grown...man...please.
This isn't the Sam Raimi of 20 years ago...or the one form a Simple Plan, this is big billionare Raimi, and if you think he's more moved from art than of money...well, enjoy the Waco stronghold sweet Kool-Aid.:heart:

 

[SupaFresh208]

Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer was good, but it certainly doesn't go in the top 5. I rank it at 8.

1. Spider-Man 2
2. X2: X-Men United
3. Spider-Man
4. X-Men
5. Daredevil (Director's Cut, not the s**tty Theatrical Cut)
6. the Punisher
7. Spider-Man 3
8. Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer
9. Hulk
10. Blade
11. Blade II
12. Ghost Rider
13. Fantastic Four
14. X-Men: The Last Stand
15. Elektra

Your telling me X-Men the 1st, HULK, and the Punisher are better than Blade I & II?

To respond to someone else, why should Blade be put in another category? It was the first blockbuster marvel movie, need we forget..

 

[November Rain]

I think the impeding threat and seriousness of the galactus situation and the way it was dealt with was better than spidey 3.

It didn't need to have galactus kill uncle ben for a tie in or have the silver surfer making sexual innuendo jokes about mr fantastic's penis.

There is for the first time a serious threat no one can stop, The surfer's redemption and fighting of galactus is greater than any return to light shown by peter.

Johnny's maturity arc was far more believable than spidey's vengeance and forgiving one.

and last but not least, the fantastic four don't accept an apology from doom saying he's sorry and let him float away...