Christopher Nolan's Inception

[Ziggyman]

This is made clear (to me at least in the previous pages). Fischer doesn't get into limbo when he was shot.

Spoiler

He was dying, and unconscious. So Cobb and Ariadne went down to another level. In this level, Cobb is the host/dreamer, just like Yusuf, Arthur and Eames was in the previous levels. But unlike those 3 levels, Ariadne is not the Architect, Cobb was. That's why Level 4 is the same with Cobb's Limbo. That's why we are getting confused. Cobb's dream (Level 4) looks the same with Cobb and Mal's Limbo. In this level, Fischer is still the Mark/Target it's just it wasn't populated by his (Fischer's) projections, maybe because he's weak and dying in Level 3 or the more obvious reason, Mal has captured him. Fischer is not dead in Level 3, just dying, and that's why Eames was trying to revive him with a defib.

Spoiler

That's the overall consensus...but don't rule out that Cobb and Ariadne could of went into Fischer's dream...where Cobb was the architect and mark...

 

[DarKJediKnight]

But didn't they make a point to say,

Spoiler

That limbo would take on the form manifested by whoever was there last (which would be Cobb)? Therefore limbo took on the shape of the city that Cobb and Mal built while they were there together. I can't accept that there is a fourth level, as it's never once brought up. There were the three levels that they were to explore, and then limbo - which is where Cobb and Mal went to build their city.

No. They planned for three levels yes, but it doesn't mean that they can't go deeper.

Spoiler

And the reason they went under for the 4th time is to get Fischer before he's lost in a Limbo. Plus, I don't remember anything from the film that limbo could take on the form by whoever was there last. Level 4 is clearly Cobb's dream, with his own designs (not by Ariadne).

 

[Heretic]

But didn't they make a point to say,

Spoiler

That limbo would take on the form manifested by whoever was there last (which would be Cobb)? Therefore limbo took on the shape of the city that Cobb and Mal built while they were there together. I can't accept that there is a fourth level, as it's never once brought up. There were the three levels that they were to explore, and then limbo - which is where Cobb and Mal went to build their city.

Spoiler

Not sure, but it is likely that so few people have been in limbo that they really aren't sure how it works. I know, people want all the answers, but it's likely that they are learning new things about the subconscious all the time...and therefore revising what the "laws" are. I see no reason why if I went into limbo that I would be living in Cobb's reality. It's like everyone has their own limbo...like...in the real world...if someone is in a coma, they aren't sharing a dream world with everyone else who's in a coma. They are creating one themselves...this would be unless you are hooked in with someone else, and then you'd share one.

 

[byte19]

gah!!!! you lucky people!!! can't watch it for a while.... no $$$. but did get my hands on the score... after seeing him do this live, it must be an awesome movie!! stuck on Mombassa as my stunt driving song... yeah crazy I know...

 

[CGHulk]

I know I'm going to get burned for this, but I wish Nolan made movies that made sense, even the Dark Knight was a pain in the butt to watch! With Memento I was like, WTF?!!
EDIT: I just watched his first two films!

 

[Team Andino]

I know I'm going to get burned for this, but I wish Nolan made movies that made sense, even the Dark Knight was a pain in the butt to watch! I haven't seen his first two films, the Following and Doodle Bug. But with Memento I was like, WTF?!!

Pay CLOSE attention and at least 1 repeat viewing and you'll be just fine. That's the basic fundamental now for Nolan flicks anyway

 

[Dvhyzs]

I'm a fan of Joseph Gordon Levitt but I really think he was miscasted as Arthur. He was fantastic for the hallway fight/tying up people scene... but he seemed way too young and dry to be Cobb's "sidekick" if you will. It should have been someone older and somewhat close to Leo's caliber, acting-wise. Someone like...

Guy Pearce. Why the hell hasn't Nolan put Pearce in any of his movies since Memento? He loves to re-use actors, yet always leaves Pearce out.

Another good choice for Arthur could have been Heath Ledger too...

 

[spider-neil]

hmm

don't you mean

BBBBBRRRRRRMMMMMMMMM!!!

 

[Team Andino]

I'm a fan of Joseph Gordon Levitt but I really think he was miscasted as Arthur. He was fantastic for the hallway fight/tying up people scene... but he seemed way too young and dry to be Cobb's "sidekick" if you will. It should have been someone older and somewhat close to Leo's caliber, acting-wise. Someone like...

Guy Pearce. Why the hell hasn't Nolan put Pearce in any of his movies since Memento? He loves to re-use actors, yet always leaves Pearce out.

Another good choice for Arthur could have been Heath Ledger too...

I feel Ledger would of been Arthur had he not passed away. Weird hearing James Franco get offered the part only for it to land in JGL lap

 

[spider-neil]

hans zimmers horns reminds me of lord of the rings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prrv6_CUyF0

 

[Fanticon]

I would like to address a couple of things that everyone seems to be picking apart. I am a member that has posted quite a bit and I've read many of the posts here that have been very helpful in answering questions about inception. But read mine through and please dissect...

Before the spoiler tag...I just want to say that it is great to see a movie that has us talking and questioning so much about it. Nolan wanted us to do this and he'd be proud of all of our interpretations.

As I learned with my english professors, with poetry in particular, the meaning of a particular piece is up to the reader, not the author. The author intentionally leaves things open to interpretation. And only the author, in this case Nolan, has the real answers. so if you have a question, if we could actually ask Nolan himself, surely he would have an answer, or tell us what we already know, which is to decide for ourselves what we think happened.

Spoiler

If this was really an entire dream within a dream then we would have to see it through one person's eyes only, and that would be Leo. In my opinion, according to all the rules set up by nolan, Leo would have to exist in every shot of the movie, otherwise, we've been cheated

on the other hand...

Spoiler

if we are to believe that this is Leo's entire dream, you have to look at the players. And the rules as told by Leo's character, aka nolan. Look for the warning signs, the contradictions. Leo constantly breaks the rules that he admits one should not break. He is a danger to the rest of the team with his demons. His mentor...Michael caine, recommends an architect. SUSPECT! Ellen Paige is a natural, as well as a pool shark, a player, a con, infiltrating Leo's dreams as if a stranger to the game. Think about it. If Ellen Paige was supposed to be the audience's point of view, as leo explained the rules to her, she was also somewhat of an expert already, observing leo the whole time. Inception, is not just an idea, it's an idea Cobb plants himself, that spreads "like a virus" throughout the rest of the movie, it is like the train, and the totems, his totem was not an object, but an idea he planted within his own mind, as he is deeply lost in limbo and trying to "get home". he doesn't know it. He can't possibly know it because he thinks he is in control. another dead give away if you go with this theory, is when Leo meets with Tom Hardy's character. Leo is a "wanted man" but in what world? We were never shown the real world, isn't it odd that people began to follow him in very much the same way a subconscious begins to recognize an intruder...his subconscious was his enemy, mal was his guiding light...not the enemy as she always appeared to be.

I could go on...but I'm getting mental fatigue. I don't think I'm right, and I don't think there is a single answer that explains everything, otherwise the movie wouldn't mean anything after you walked away from it.

 

[Anita18]

I too thought of this. It is, I admit, a barrier that is preventing me from completely accepting a few of those particular theories. In trying to understand it though, I'm attempting to remember my own dreams, and if there are scenarios where I'm simply a voyeur - I'm not actually present. I guess that might suffice as a potential explanation.

Another thing that makes me think that Cobb is in [blackout]the real world at the end[/blackout]:

Spoiler

He wakes up in a daze on the plane, like he's just been in a crazy dream. (That's what I sometimes look like when I've just woken up from a awesome/scary dream. ) In the movie when they're in a dream, Nolan doesn't show you how they get there. They just appear. But we're shown the team getting into their seats on the plane. So the plane level is real. And if the plane level is real, then the airport to house scene is real too.

You know, I don't even know what the argument is anymore. I and others are just explaining things they way they were and the way they worked in the film and you are just going all over the place on your own now. So, good luck with that.

Thanks for taking the words out of my mouth. It's all just semantics now.

Spoiler tag about "limbo:

Spoiler

Not sure, but it is likely that so few people have been in limbo that they really aren't sure how it works. I know, people want all the answers, but it's likely that they are learning new things about the subconscious all the time...and therefore revising what the "laws" are. I see no reason why if I went into limbo that I would be living in Cobb's reality. It's like everyone has their own limbo...like...in the real world...if someone is in a coma, they aren't sharing a dream world with everyone else who's in a coma. They are creating one themselves...this would be unless you are hooked in with someone else, and then you'd share one.

I agree that nobody on the team knows for sure, even Cobb.

Spoiler

Only Cobb and Mal have been there, and it was by accident that Cobb finally realized they were still in a dream. How would they know that limbo was universally shared consciousness if those two had been the only ones down there?

I know I'm going to get burned for this, but I wish Nolan made movies that made sense, even the Dark Knight was a pain in the butt to watch! With Memento I was like, WTF?!!
EDIT: I just watched his first two films!

I think people understand the general plotline, we're just asking about details here.

I understood what happened in Memento, even though I didn't quite understand how the timelines worked. Once I figured it out, I was "OMG GENIUS!" It's so simple and done so well, you figure it out while watching the movie and get the story.

 

[Two-Face]

That's the beauty of Nolan's films, you can draw your own imagination or ask questions about it. I had to watch Memento or The Prestige more than twice.....

 

[Longshot777]

Ok

The reason that both Cobb and Mal shared the same consciousness on "You know where" is because they went in together through that device they use to go in to "you know where"

And Nolan made rules in the first place so we have to go with them.

Cobb's totem was about to fall which means he is "you know where". You can say that, it might resume not to fall. BUT lets just go with our physics in reality and say once it did that move it will fall.


But then Nolan made another rule on that "Place" which there were no rules.


So the audiences are now split in 2.

Nolan was right, IDEAS and Beliefs are very powerful forces. People will follow it blindly to their grave and beyond.

It's either your on Team Cobb OR Team MAL.

I'm on Team Cobb, that the Totem did fall.

Team Mal believes there are something more on what is being perceived.

 

[Anita18]

So the audiences are now split in 2.

Nolan was right, IDEAS and Beliefs are very powerful forces. People will follow it blindly to their grave and beyond.

It's either your on Team Cobb OR Team MAL.

I'm on Team Cobb, that the Totem did fall.

Team Mal believes there are something more on what is being perceived.

Or you can be Team Neither, which is what I'm leaning toward right now after doing some more pondering.

And after reading Devin's new crazy/awesome/spoilertastic analysis of what Inception might really mean: http://chud.com/articles/articles/2...HE-MEANING-AND-SECRET-OF-INCEPTION/Page1.html

Inception is metaphor for cinema in general.

Spoiler

It doesn't matter whether the top keeps spinning or not, because the movie's over. It doesn't matter whether the end is a dream or not, because the movie's over.

Does it matter to Fischer whether or not his catharsis takes place with his real father? No. It feels real to him. At the end, does it matter to Cobb whether his journey takes place in the real world? No. It feels real to him. He turns away from the spinning top. He no longer cares.

So, does it matter if the movie we just saw is not real? (And of course it isn't real, it's a movie! ) No, because the journey that we were taken on feels real to us.

 

[Heretic]

I am on Team Cobol...because they are the only ones who actually busted skulls when things didn't go their way...and really...Leo and his team did rip them off. They were hired by Cobol for two jobs...did not get what they were hired to do, and split with the payment. Cobol are the good guys!

Inception 2: Cobol Conquers The Dream World is in preproduction already folks!

 

[spider-neil]

I've just watched a review from filmfanatic57

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwRC2wP8GSM&playnext_from=TL&videos=hv_8nsDA-Lo

and he makes a point I don't agree with at all.
basically, I had a lot of trouble getting gripped by the action because I wasn't emotionally envolved with the secondary characters (as they are not fleshed out) FF57 uses the analogy that darth vader's number 2 (peter cushing) isn't fleshed out as a character in star wars and star wars doesn't suffer as a result, hang on a minute, DV's number 2 isn't put into life or death peril so that analogy doesn't work at all.

I've got to thank all you guys for your great analyisis about inception because I came out of the movie hating it and not wanting to see the movie again, now I am really looking forward to see the movie again and giving the movie a second opinion.
I have been unfair on inception. When I watched blade runner for the very first time I hated it because after the trailers I saw (which were action packed) I went in expecting something other than what I saw so when I didn't see what I was expecting I hated the movie, when I saw the movie again knowing what the movie was and judging the movie on its own merits I absolutely loved it (blade runner is in my top 3 sci-fi movies of all time).

I'm hoping I have a similar experience with inception but I 'DID' enjoy the performances and I thought the concepts were excellent I was just expecting something completely different and to be fair look at the trailers for inception which pretty much all the reality bending scenes from the movie.

 

[Heretic]

Being second in command to Darth Vader is constant life-threatening peril.

 

[luke1234]

Anyone else realize how close some of Zimmer's score was to Mulholland Drives score? Especially the scenes with Mal.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I fully understood today during my second viewing. In the scene when they drive into the warehouse after

Spoiler

Saito gets shot and they all find out that if they die under sedation they will go into limbo. Page's character, shortly after tells Cobb that he's put everyone at risk since he's the only one that's been in limbo before(with his wife)and that anyone else who dies will end up in whoever else's limbo that's been there before. So since Leo had been in limbo in the past, anyone who dies would end up in his since no one else sort of created their own limbo before. It's pretty weird but if you watch it again, it's explained a lot better in that scene then what I just typed.

How would she even know that?

 

[spider-neil]

Being second in command to Darth Vader is constant life-threatening peril.

maybe, but he isn't on the screen for minutes at a time having battles.
put it this way, when morpheus (a secondary character) fight agent smith in the first movie I am emotionally invested in the fight but I had formed a connection to morpheus, in inception the secondary characters are fighting and I felt nothing for them.

 

[luke1234]

Or you can be Team Neither, which is what I'm leaning toward right now after doing some more pondering.

And after reading Devin's new crazy/awesome/spoilertastic analysis of what Inception might really mean: http://chud.com/articles/articles/2...HE-MEANING-AND-SECRET-OF-INCEPTION/Page1.html

Inception is metaphor for cinema in general.

Spoiler

It doesn't matter whether the top keeps spinning or not, because the movie's over. It doesn't matter whether the end is a dream or not, because the movie's over.

Does it matter to Fischer whether or not his catharsis takes place with his real father? No. It feels real to him. At the end, does it matter to Cobb whether his journey takes place in the real world? No. It feels real to him. He turns away from the spinning top. He no longer cares.

So, does it matter if the movie we just saw is not real? (And of course it isn't real, it's a movie! ) No, because the journey that we were taken on feels real to us.

One could argue that Devin has a real point there but I honestly dont see it. Especially the Totem argument.

 

[redfirebird2008]

That's the beauty of Nolan's films, you can draw your own imagination or ask questions about it. I had to watch Memento or The Prestige more than twice.....

This one is even more ambiguous. I don't think any of us will ever truly know for sure. We can think one way or the other, but Nolan doesn't give enough to either side of the argument to disprove the other side of the argument. He gives just enough proof to each side of it that both can be argued in a convincing way, but neither are certain. F**king brilliant.

 

[luke1234]

maybe, but he isn't on the screen for minutes at a time having battles.
put it this way, when morpheus (a secondary character) fight agent smith in the first movie I am emotionally invested in the fight but I had formed a connection to morpheus, in inception the secondary characters are fighting and I felt nothing for them.

I'd have to somewhat agree with you on that. The only character I felt for besides Cobb was Adriane. Adriane was a great character who was the "new recruit" just like Neo was in the Matrix. She also had real emotional ties to Cobb's character over his addiction with Mal. I've also put levitivity aside just because the plot and the editing is so ambitious that you can serioulsy just concentrate at the story alone. I easily felt this movie could of been three hours long but Nolan did his Job and kept Cobb's guilt the centric fold.

I must also say that the acting was top notch. Though each character was shortlived in quickly cut scenes I must give nods to Marion Cottilard who played a haunting character yet very vulnerable. Also to miss Page ( i totally forgot about juno in this flick.) and to Cillian Murphy. He literally stole the scene at the end with his father and made this whole heist totally worth his reaction. Top 4 actors

1.Leo
2.Marion
3.Cillian
4.Ellen

 

[scifiwolf]

I'm loving this debate because it reminds me of the debate over Deckard's humanity in Blade Runner. Still haven't decided on that one, and I hope I never decide on this one.