Christopher Nolan's Inception

[Heretic]

I think you're missing some key pieces of info that the movie gives us.

Spoiler

Cobb's projections populate the training dream with Ariadne even though she's the dreamer. She proves this by manipulating the buildings, and Cobb's projections attack her when she goes too far. I don't think they were supposed to attack her like that, it's just that Cobb's mind is messed up.

When they're in Level 2, which is Arthur's dream, Fischer's projections start to stare at Ariadne and Arthur. Arthur SAYS, "The projections are looking for the dreamer - me." This line even shows up in one of the marketing spots.

I don't know what kind of proof you need beyond that.

Spoiler

If that line is in the movie then i missed it (but know exactly where itd be said. If thats true, then you are absolutely right and the theory is true, and I've been wrong the entire time.

However...it still doesnt explain why absolutely no one except Cillian Murphy creates any other characters to populate. It makes no sense why Gordon-Levitt would create a world in which he had to fight nonstop in order to achieve his goal, when he could have just projected an army of people to help him.

There is a TON of evidence that goes against the theory of multiple dreamers...but if that line is indeed in the movie, then all the evidence is wrong and the movie is just full of stupid people who made things as difficult as possible for themselves.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

@ SPAWN: I have this ring that'd be a great totem. I know how much it weighs, its balance, everything.

 

[DarKJediKnight]

Spoiler

I get that the architect creates the world of the dream...but that doesnt even remotely touch on the idea of multiple dreamers being in charge of each world. You guys are adding way more to the idea than was actually in the movie. Again...the guys you claim were in charge of the dreams spent the entire time escaping from their own subconscious trying to kill them. The indian guy was dreaming in the first world? Then why was he on the run the entire time with no projections to help him?? Not a single projection of his own to battle Cillian murphy's projections. Then in the hotel world, you claim it was Gordon-levitt's dream...yet he was on the run and being attacked the entire time...with no projections of his own to stop Cillian Murphy's projections...and then the snow layer...you guys say it was the other dudes dream...and yep...he spent the whole freaking time being shot at by Cillian Murphys projections...without a single projection of his own to help. Why did NONE of them have a single projection that would realize that people were infiltrating??? No...for some reason...under this theory...only Cillian Murphy can create projections. No one else can or does. Makes NO sense.

Spoiler

The dreamer is just it, the dreamer. He dreams about the maze and structures the Architect has designed. The dreamer then lets the subject, or mark, fill it with his subconscious and projection. If the dreamer makes a change in his dream, like making his own projection, the mark's subconscious will become more violent. Why would the dreamer make his own projection when the subconscious is already "militarized" and is already being a problem to him? Why would he make his dream more violent (due to the mark's subconscious being aware of the dreamer's dream).

It makes perfect sense.

 

[Solidus]

Spoiler

I get that the architect creates the world of the dream...but that doesnt even remotely touch on the idea of multiple dreamers being in charge of each world. You guys are adding way more to the idea than was actually in the movie. Again...the guys you claim were in charge of the dreams spent the entire time escaping from their own subconscious trying to kill them. The indian guy was dreaming in the first world? Then why was he on the run the entire time with no projections to help him?? Not a single projection of his own to battle Cillian murphy's projections. Then in the hotel world, you claim it was Gordon-levitt's dream...yet he was on the run and being attacked the entire time...with no projections of his own to stop Cillian Murphy's projections...and then the snow layer...you guys say it was the other dudes dream...and yep...he spent the whole freaking time being shot at by Cillian Murphys projections...without a single projection of his own to help. Why did NONE of them have a single projection that would realize that people were infiltrating??? No...for some reason...under this theory...only Cillian Murphy can create projections. No one else can or does. Makes NO sense.

Spoiler

Subconscious projections don't fight other subconscious projections. Yasif is not the one having his mind attacked for inception Fischer is. Yasif is a conscious entity not subconscious. He knows he is in a dream. So there is no subconscious attacking anyone because he knows that it is dream and no one can extract info or incept info with that (unless they use the Mr. Charlie trick) The projections are subconscious. These guys are conscious that is a dream. Since they know this, they can't be incepted or extracted. So the subconscious does nothing because it can't be attacked. But Fischer is being attacked in the first level and does not know it. Then in the second level the Mr. Charlie approach turns the subconscious against himself and following into the third level.

This is just the way it is. Not a theory. It's the rules of the movie. Rules of the dream world. I don't get why you think the subconscious would fight each other. The reason Cobb's comes in is to keep Page away from giving him Inception. And his is as she put "crazy" the others keep it in check. But subconscious don't fight each other it does not make sense in the rules given. They can't. THey only fight a conscious entity which is the extractors. They can't fight another subconscious. And they would not cuz the team knows they are in a dream. So their subconscious guard is down, cuz they can't be extracted.

Cobb has his subconsious that is out of control in these dreams. So no just not Fischer is got his subconscious projections in there. But only the people that are on guard and feel that they are being extracted. Or incepted.

 

[DarKJediKnight]

Spoiler

Saito killing Cobb and sending him further into limbo makes more sense than killing them would bring them back. Cobb and Mal were able to do that but they weren't under heavy sedatives.

That's for another topic to be discussed,

Spoiler

on whether Saito sent Dom further into a Limbo, though I think Dom and Mal were under heavy sedation when they got into the Limbo, cause that's the only way they can get there, be killed but can't wake up.

 

[Ziggyman]

Question...

Spoiler

If the crumbling buildings beach dream with Ariadne was Cobb's and he was the architect of it...how could he fill it with his own projections?

 

[Heretic]

Spoiler

The dreamer is just it, the dreamer. He dreams about the maze and structures the Architect has designed. The dreamer then lets the subject, or mark, fill it with his subconscious and projection. If the dreamer makes a change in his dream, like making his own projection, the mark's subconscious will become more violent. Why would the dreamer make his own projection when the subconscious is already "militarized" and is already being a problem to him? Why would he make his dream more violent (due to the mark's subconscious being aware of the dreamer's dream).

It makes perfect sense.

Spoiler

No, that makes no sense. Once the mark created an army of guys to kill the dreamer...the correct thing to do is create an army of your own to protect the dreamer. Not simply fight an army by yourself.

 

[DarKJediKnight]

Spoiler

No, that makes no sense. Once the mark created an army of guys to kill the dreamer...the correct thing to do is create an army of your own to protect the dreamer. Not simply fight an army by yourself.

Spoiler

Don't you get what I've already said? When the dreamer makes a change in his dream, like making his own projection, the mark's subconscious will become aware and will become more violent. What part in that statement don't you get? The mark's subconscious will become more violent, therefore more guys will come after the dreamer and to those he shares his dream with. Why would you create a problem of your own?

 

[UltimateMangod]

Spoiler

I get that the architect creates the world of the dream...but that doesnt even remotely touch on the idea of multiple dreamers being in charge of each world. You guys are adding way more to the idea than was actually in the movie. Again...the guys you claim were in charge of the dreams spent the entire time escaping from their own subconscious trying to kill them. The indian guy was dreaming in the first world? Then why was he on the run the entire time with no projections to help him?? Not a single projection of his own to battle Cillian murphy's projections. Then in the hotel world, you claim it was Gordon-levitt's dream...yet he was on the run and being attacked the entire time...with no projections of his own to stop Cillian Murphy's projections...and then the snow layer...you guys say it was the other dudes dream...and yep...he spent the whole freaking time being shot at by Cillian Murphys projections...without a single projection of his own to help. Why did NONE of them have a single projection that would realize that people were infiltrating??? No...for some reason...under this theory...only Cillian Murphy can create projections. No one else can or does. Makes NO sense.

Spoiler

The dreamer does not create them because their projections would go after every other real person but the dreamer. This includes the target and the other team members. Cobb's projection of Mal does this too. Every time she shows up, she goes after someone who's real. She shoots Arthur in the opening, kills Ariadne in her lessons, and shoots Fisher at the end. Cobb may have tried to recreate her and her personality but she was still a part of his subconscious. She's just a more personalized part of subconscious but still follows the same rules.

 

[Solidus]

Spoiler

No, that makes no sense. Once the mark created an army of guys to kill the dreamer...the correct thing to do is create an army of your own to protect the dreamer. Not simply fight an army by yourself.

You can't.

Spoiler

The subconsious is just that....subconsious. You don't control it. That is why its called subconsious and not consious. It is considred the more raw and animilsitc approach of protecing one self. That is how the brain really does function.

The team knows they are in a dream, they created it. So they are conscious and lucid within the dream. Fischer in level 1 is not. Where the base of it all is. He is unaware of everything. So the subconscious part of him begins to protect him against the conscious intruders. That and you can't control your subconscious. Cobb could not stop Mal from doing what she did, that is why doctors call it the subconscious it is that instinct in it not really controllable. You can change it but its not really a controlled thing. It's natural reaction. Yes they can have subconscious in there like messed up people like Cobb, but he can't control it. It does what it wants, he can't control Mal, because it is the protecting part of the brain. That is how the brain really works. Not so simply put but they call it the reactive mind. It is the more protective side of you that is from when we were more animals. You can't make an army of something you can't control.

 

[S.A.A.D.]

Okay,I'm retracting from my previous thoughts about the dreams in this movie, I just think the movie consists of nothing more than 3 dreams.

 

[Solidus]

Question...

Spoiler

If the crumbling buildings beach dream with Ariadne was Cobb's and he was the architect of it...how could he fill it with his own projections?

Spoiler

This is a theory but I think because it's limbo. It's a collection of raw data from anyone that has been in limbo in the shared dream. Only one of them had and it was Cobb. So I don't think that Limbo follows the same rules as the typical levels. It just is default a mixture of raw data from those who had been there. And none of the other team had been there before.

 

[omid17]

Did the credits reveal the ending?

Spoiler

During the credits it lists 2 actor for both of Cobb's Kids.
James (20 Months) James (3 Years old)
Phillipa (3 Years old) (5 years old)

​

 

[DarKJediKnight]

Did the credits reveal the ending?

Spoiler

During the credits it lists 2 actor for both of Cobb's Kids.
James (20 Months) James (3 Years old)
Phillipa (3 Years old) (5 years old)

​

Woah, really? I guess we already have the definitive answer!

 

[Solidus]

Did the credits reveal the ending?

Spoiler

During the credits it lists 2 actor for both of Cobb's Kids.
James (20 Months) James (3 Years old)
Phillipa (3 Years old) (5 years old)

​

Spoiler

I don't think so. Some of the kids he's seen could easily be younger versions that he remembers. Who knows though? I think that is a mystery that will never be fully solved. Maybe it will be a stronger theory then the other. Kinda like in Blade Runner how most go with the Deckard is a replicant over a human. But still both have valid points. The voice of the kids is interesting. I will look into it again I'm going to see it again tomorrow.

 

[Solidus]

Woah, really? I guess we already have the definitive answer!

Spoiler

I really don't think it does. Maybe but very unlikely. Like I said it could have been earlier projections that he envisioned which they did seem to alternate. Especially remember the memory on the beach when Mal was still alive? In his memory elevator? The kids were younger when Mal was alive before he ran off. So actually I think this proves nothing.

 

[omid17]

Spoiler

I don't think so. Some of the kids he's seen could easily be younger versions that he remembers. Who knows though? I think that is a mystery that will never be fully solved. Maybe it will be a stronger theory then the other. Kinda like in Blade Runner how most go with the Deckard is a replicant over a human. But still both have valid points. The voice of the kids is interesting. I will look into it again I'm going to see it again tomorrow.

same here man tomorrow morning

hey Solidus was it better during the second viewing in your opinion?

 

[Ziggyman]

Spoiler

This is a theory but I think because it's limbo. It's a collection of raw data from anyone that has been in limbo in the shared dream. Only one of them had and it was Cobb. So I don't think that Limbo follows the same rules as the typical levels. It just is default a mixture of raw data from those who had been there. And none of the other team had been there before.

Spoiler

Wait a tick...Fischer "died" in level 3, his own dream...and went to limbo...Cobb and Ariadne tried to get him by going down another level through Cobb's dream (4th level)...and they found Fischer...Cobb and Ariadne didn't die in the third level, but they caught up to Fischer in "limbo" somehow...?!?!

 

[Heretic]

Okay, I'm starting to grasp this concept...so I may have had the concept screwed up from the get-go.

Spoiler

Though I still don't remember him saying "they're looking for the dreamer-me"...and I'm not even sure why they would be looking for the dreamer, when it is the interlopers they should be concerned about.

However, I simply wasn't grasping the idea that they almost never enter the marks dreams. That actually explains how the architect is able to communicate what the dream world looks like without actually sitting down with the mark. The architect creates, the person in charge of dreaming (though it never explains why one person becomes the dreamer over anyone else) then knows more about the world and can deal with things best. It actually makes sense that the blonde woman who was hitting on Cillian would be a creation of the architect...to give him the numbers.

It still doesnt explain why absolutely no one except Cillian bothered to do anything to help themselves. Everyone here is saying that the dreamer CAN change the world, but doesnt want to tip off the mark...but the mark was unconscious through most of the first realm, a big part of the second. If they were in the Indian guys dream...and everyone else was in another level of dreaming...then who could he possibly tip off? He could have just created a giant forcefield around himself to protect himself from harm. No need for the car chase, no need to dive in the water. Gordon levitt could have done the same thing once everyone was asleep...no need for any of the fighting and stress he went through. The third guy could have done the same thing...he was nowhere near the mark...so he could have created a wall of ice to kill all of Cillians protectors (or...AGAIN...created an army of his own to protect him...).

So, I'm kind of getting it...but not entirely...it still makes a thousand times more sense if it was all in Cillian's dream realms. It's just easier that way with no clutter or stupid explanations as to why things happened.

 

[omid17]

Spoiler

I really don't think it does. Maybe but very unlikely. Like I said it could have been earlier projections that he envisioned which they did seem to alternate. Especially remember the memory on the beach when Mal was still alive? In his memory elevator? The kids were younger when Mal was alive before he ran off. So actually I think this proves nothing.

Spoiler

why weren't cobb and mal old when they got ran over by the train

 

[batman11]

All this discussion makes me desperately want to see the movie again. Trying to read these posts whilst thinking about the movie is like, well, trying to remember a dream. LOL. Everything's a blur. I've gotta hand it to Solidus though for doing an awesome job on all fronts.

Now, I wanted to bring something up that I'm sure some of you diehards, like me, will certainly find interesting/amusing. Forgive me if it's been brought up before.

What I'm about to suggest is shocking, and is not for the fainthearted. It is a radical notion. Hehehe. (This is all in good fun, in case you haven't caught on. t

Ladies and gentlemen, Christopher Nolan has already told us what the true ending of the movie is. When do you ask? About a year ago. Whaaaaaa?

Think back to TDK. What was the very first, visual shot shown in the first trailer? Not the teaser that included the exploding symbol, but the trailer. What was the first piece of footage (outside of the prologue) that was unveiled? That's right. It was the batpod racing off into the night - the final shot in TDK. The final shot in the film was the first that we saw.

Now, think back to the first teaser trailer for Inception. What was the first piece of footage that Nolan unveiled to us?



That's right, it was...

Spoiler

Cobb's totem spinning, then toppling. I know, I know, it wasn't the exact same shot of it on the table at the end of the film, but I just wanted to spark some discussion. Is the teaser telling us something about the ending? Hehehe. Anyhow, I just thought it was interesting that twice now with Nolan's films, the first footage we see directly relates to the final shot in the film. Weird...

Hopefully some people will get a kick out of this.

 

[Solidus]

same here man tomorrow morning

hey Solidus was it better during the second viewing in your opinion?

Oh yea, it was better and the third time was even better for me. Like most Nolan films they truly go better with time IMO.

Spoiler

Wait a tick...Fischer "died" in level 3, his own dream...and went to limbo...Cobb and Ariadne tried to get him by going down another level through Cobb's dream (4th level)...and they found Fischer...Cobb and Ariadne didn't die in the third level, but they caught up to Fischer in "limbo" somehow...?!?!

I will think more about this tomorrow Ziggy. My brain feels like

Spoiler

I'm in limbo lol.

I will try to write out more on the other thing for ya Heretic tomorrow. I just think my mind is starting to fade, I'm getting tired and eyes are getting worse lol.

 

[Poeman]

same here man tomorrow morning

hey Solidus was it better during the second viewing in your opinion?

I've seen in three times...And Solidus will agree with me, it is even better. After the shock factor you can now relax and watch the film and understand much more as it goes on.

Great repeatability with this film

 

[redhawk23]

How about my question about the limbo?

Spoiler

Limbo occurs when you die in a dream, but your body is too heavilly sedated. If you enter limbo for the first time alone or with someone else for whom it also the first time your subconscious invents the limbo apearantly. Whilst in limbo you are basically in a coma, your mind unable to return to reality. Anyways it is directly stated, I don't know by whom I think either Dom or Arthur, that if you enter limbo whilst connected to someone who has already been there, then you enter the limbo of their creation. Dom and Mal originally entered limbo because they were experimenting with going deeper and deeper, most likely facilitated by stronger sedatives. They went too far down and were too sedated and therefore ended up "washed up on the shores" of their own subconscious. As to getting out I do not know. Apearantly they aren't sure either because they are rather unclear on the matter when explaining it. Saying it could be a very short amount of time or decades, or never. I think it requires a rather substantial kick and an understanding and willingness to accept that what you see is not real. (and also for some of the drugs to being to wear off) Now i think it may have been Solidus or someone else but they had a fantastic idea of why Watanabe ended up in an alternate limbo, but i cannot remember or reason it out myself, i'll have to see it again

hope that at least partially helps

 

[Poeman]

i hope this thing picks up and we can get some novels or comic series related to this film and its characters