Christopher Nolan's Inception

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Boom said:
Saw it a second time.

Still don't understand how Saito ended up in his own limbo, and how Cobb got there.
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I fully understood today during my second viewing. In the scene when they drive into the warehouse after
Saito gets shot and they all find out that if they die under sedation they will go into limbo. Page's character, shortly after tells Cobb that he's put everyone at risk since he's the only one that's been in limbo before(with his wife)and that anyone else who dies will end up in whoever else's limbo that's been there before. So since Leo had been in limbo in the past, anyone who dies would end up in his since no one else sort of created their own limbo before. It's pretty weird but if you watch it again, it's explained a lot better in that scene then what I just typed.
 
Figs said:
I fully understood today during my second viewing. In the scene when they drive into the warehouse after
Saito gets shot and they all find out that if they die under sedation they will go into limbo. Page's character, shortly after tells Cobb that he's put everyone at risk since he's the only one that's been in limbo before(with his wife)and that anyone else who dies will end up in whoever else's limbo that's been there before. So since Leo had been in limbo in the past, anyone who dies would end up in his since no one else sort of created their own limbo before. It's pretty weird but if you watch it again, it's explained a lot better in that scene then what I just typed.
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I get that much. Cobb even says "Saito is down here and I need to find him." That suggests that Saito is in the same limbo as them - somewhere in the city. Then why cut to Cobb waking up on shore, with no memory? Why was he delirious?
 
Boom said:
I get that much. Cobb even says "Saito is down here and I need to find him." That suggests that Saito is in the same limbo as them - somewhere in the city. Then why cut to Cobb waking up on shore, with no memory? Why was he delirious?
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Yeah,
Saito is in Cobb's limbo but like being in a dream he can populate it, as you see when it shows his home from the beginning when Cobb and Hardy are trying to get his info. The deal with Cobb waking up on shore is due to the fact that he died after Saito which is why Saito is so old when he meets him again, time went by that fast down in limbo but i'm not 100% sure on why he was delirious. It might have been the same way with Saito when he died too because your normally supposed to wake up when you die but since they were just getting thrown into limbo, it might have been jarring to the senses.
 
Boom said:
I get that much. Cobb even says "Saito is down here and I need to find him." That suggests that Saito is in the same limbo as them - somewhere in the city. Then why cut to Cobb waking up on shore, with no memory? Why was he delirious?
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Because the limbo that Ellen Page and Cillian Murphy's character got "kicked" out of was Fisher's limbo. That limbo was being destroyed, and since Leo stayed, he died in that limbo, and washed up delerius on shore in Saito's limbo.
 
Has anyone seen Devin's new article. Have to say, reading it, it makes perfect sense to me.

If the entire film is, in fact, a dream, then the different dream levels can just be chalked up to the fact that dreams are constantly shifting locations.
 
Boom said:
Has anyone seen Devin's new article. Have to say, reading it, it makes perfect sense to me.

If the entire film is, in fact, a dream, then the different dream levels can just be chalked up to the fact that dreams are constantly shifting locations.
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It's like Leo says in the cafe scene how you never really remember how you got to that starting point of your dream. You kind of just get thrown into the middle of something without knowing what led to that.
 
FaT_tONle said:
I don't see why the host wouldn't be able to manipulate and become his own forger. I'd imagine the explanation is simply that, that the subjects or the dreamer (host rather) that aren't forgers simply do not have a grasp on their sub conscience as well as Hardy's character. But I don't see why a host wouldn't be able to manipulate the world at his discretion. Don't even think you were questioning that, but basically everyone but the mark should be able to manipulate. Once the mark becomes aware, maybe even he can start forging.
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The technology was invented as a legal, moral way of interacting in dreams.

Therefore...OFTEN is the case when one person will be the architect, dreamer, and target. Of course...if it's one person, then how exactly are they are target?? They aren't...not at all. The people caught up the terms are simply hung up on industry trade terms and cant get past it.

One person could be the host and the forger if need be. None of them have any super powers that the others dont have. Its their assigned jobs, not some mutant ability. people are getting so hung up on the trade terms that they are forgetting that they are just job titles. Can a painter also caulk? Sure...it's just a job title, theres no law that says you cant. People are putting way too much power into the job titles.
 
Figs said:
Yeah,
Saito is in Cobb's limbo but like being in a dream he can populate it, as you see when it shows his home from the beginning when Cobb and Hardy are trying to get his info. The deal with Cobb waking up on shore is due to the fact that he died after Saito which is why Saito is so old when he meets him again, time went by that fast down in limbo but i'm not 100% sure on why he was delirious. It might have been the same way with Saito when he died too because your normally supposed to wake up when you die but since they were just getting thrown into limbo, it might have been jarring to the senses.
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But Fischer died before Cobb too. Why wasn't he old?
 
The only thing that doesn't make sense to me about the idea of the whole film being one big dream. If the entire film is just Cobb dreaming, then how are we able to see the other characters when Cobb isn't present? Like Fischer going into the safe. If this is all Cobb's dream, wouldn't he have to be there?
 
Boom said:
But Fischer died before Cobb too. Why wasn't he old?
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He didn't...he was dying and unconscious...therefore...it's as though he went another level down...not limbo...
 
Boom said:
Has anyone seen Devin's new article. Have to say, reading it, it makes perfect sense to me.
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Hadn't seen it until you mentioned it. And thank you for doing so. It was an excellent read and he really made some truly awesome points. A wonderful analysis on his part and I really like how his bit about how watching a movie is the real-world version of shared dreaming. Thanks again for bringing it up. :up: :up:


Boom said:
The only thing that doesn't make sense to me about the idea of the whole film being one big dream. If the entire film is just Cobb dreaming, then how are we able to see the other characters when Cobb isn't present? Like Fischer going into the safe. If this is all Cobb's dream, wouldn't he have to be there?
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I too thought of this. It is, I admit, a barrier that is preventing me from completely accepting a few of those particular theories. In trying to understand it though, I'm attempting to remember my own dreams, and if there are scenarios where I'm simply a voyeur - I'm not actually present. I guess that might suffice as a potential explanation.
 
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Heretic said:
So, she was the architect AND the dreamer?? Weird...she can hook herself up and be the architect, the dreamer AND the target all at once!

And again...there is not supposed to ever be a target!!

You guys are so caught up in the titles of things that you arent getting the details.

If one guy is dreaming, what is he a target for? NOTHING. So, it's just a trade term they use for shorthand. "dreamer" is the term they use for the point man/host. None of them are blessed with powers that the others dont have.

The terms themselves are rather useless when one person could be all of them at once. I mean...if one guy is under...then is he really a target??? And if no one is targeting him, then why is he a target at all??? Exactly...he isnt...its just a trade term.
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You know, I don't even know what the argument is anymore. I and others are just explaining things they way they were and the way they worked in the film and you are just going all over the place on your own now. So, good luck with that.
 
Ziggyman said:
He didn't...he was dying and unconscious...therefore...it's as though he went another level down...not limbo...
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...It was my understanding that Fischer did die. That's why Cobb was about to throw in the towel. Plus they had to use the defibrillator on him to get his heart going again. And then even say that he went to limbo.
batman11 said:
I too thought of this. It is, I admit, a barrier that is preventing me from completely accepting a few of those particular theories. In trying to understand it though, I'm attempting to remember my own dreams, and if there are scenarios where I'm simply a voyeur - I'm not actually present. I guess that might suffice as a potential explanation.
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That's a damn good point. I remember a dream I had recently. I can't remember what is was about specifically, but I do remember that I wasn't... well, me. And I do think I've had dreams where I wasn't physically present, but rather watching over the action.
 
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EDIT: Double post.
 
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This is made clear (to me at least in the previous pages). Fischer doesn't get into limbo when he was shot.

He was dying, and unconscious. So Cobb and Ariadne went down to another level. In this level, Cobb is the host/dreamer, just like Yusuf, Arthur and Eames was in the previous levels. But unlike those 3 levels, Ariadne is not the Architect, Cobb was. That's why Level 4 is the same with Cobb's Limbo. That's why we are getting confused. Cobb's dream (Level 4) looks the same with Cobb and Mal's Limbo. In this level, Fischer is still the Mark/Target it's just it wasn't populated by his (Fischer's) projections, maybe because he's weak and dying in Level 3 or the more obvious reason, Mal has captured him. Fischer is not dead in Level 3, just dying, and that's why Eames was trying to revive him with a defib.
 
Boom said:
That's a damn good point. I remember a dream I had recently. I can't remember what is was about specifically, but I do remember that I wasn't... well, me. And I do think I've had dreams where I wasn't physically present, but rather watching over the action.
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Yeah, I know what you mean about the feeling that it's not you. I totally get that. And I'm pretty sure that, like you, I've had dreams where I just see things happening. It's not even like I'm there looking through a window into a house or something, I'm just..."there." Hard to explain. So, if we are to believe that the whole thing is Cobb's dream, we can take things like the hallway fight, Yussef in the van and Fischer and the pinwheel (which Devin talks about) as Cobb merely witnessing elements of his dream, even though he's not present. I think it works, based on the reality of our dreams and how they sometimes function.
 
Boom said:
...It was my understanding that Fischer did die. That's why Cobb was about to throw in the towel. Plus they had to use the defibrillator on him to get his heart going again. And then even say that he went to limbo.

That's a damn good point. I remember a dream I had recently. I can't remember what is was about specifically, but I do remember that I wasn't... well, me. And I do think I've had dreams where I wasn't physically present, but rather watching over the action.
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He didn't die...but he was in between alive and dead...
 
Regarding Cobb's realm vs Limbo:

I think that we should just back away from the term "dream" for a minute. The dream, no matter what anyone claims in this thread...is a designed false reality fed into multiple peoples subconscious. What happens when you go beyond the designed realities? You enter the true subconscious realm.

So, theoretically the architect designed 3 levels and assigned 3 hosts...so when it came time to go deeper...the system didnt have a design planned...so it went into Cobbs subconscious since he routinely visits his subconscious and he was hooked up to the machine. Had he not been there, it likely would have went to limbo. They probably actually thought they would go there. That explains why Cillian Murphy was there, when everyone thought he should have been in Limbo. Under this unplanned scenario...Dicaprio is de facto architect and dreamer and target. Dicaprio has been in this world many, many times alone...so when Dicaprio goes alone into this world, he is his own target (proving why these terms are stupid when used universally). So, since he is the de facto target every day when he enters this world, it isnt just going to switch to someone else, especially when it was never planned to even happen. These terms are basically job titles, and meaningless once the job went awry and they went into an unplanned area. Can you imagine being at Burger King and the cashier is about to sweep the floor and someone yells "NO, YOU ARE CASHIER!!! YOU ARE NOT CAPABLE OF SWEEPING FLOORS BECAUSE ONLY THE FLOOR SWEEPER HAS THAT SUPER POWER!!!!" No, that would be silly. In the case of entering a subconscious realm where nothing has been designed, the subconscious is likely to go to whatever is handy, which would be Cobb's dream/limbo realm where Cobb is essentially God.

But what about Saito?

He could have died in level 1. Then went limp in level 3. Since he was not sharing a realm of subconscious with Leo, he went straight into his own blank Limbo.
 
Saw it last night and I loved it. My favorite performance was Marion, she was incredible. And my favorite thing about the movie would probably be Mal/Cobb's relationship, it was touching.

I'm really horrible with remembering specific dialogue so I'm going to ask for help, does anyone remember how that "train riddle" goes? I wanted to remember the specific language of it but for some reason I got nothing.
 
But didn't they make a point to say,

That limbo would take on the form manifested by whoever was there last (which would be Cobb)? Therefore limbo took on the shape of the city that Cobb and Mal built while they were there together. I can't accept that there is a fourth level, as it's never once brought up. There were the three levels that they were to explore, and then limbo - which is where Cobb and Mal went to build their city.
 
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