The Dark Knight Rises Cillian Murphy Keeping Fingers Crossed For 'Dark Knight' Sequel

[Mr. Earle]

In Begins he asked Gordon about what they would need to bring Falcone down and he got all that. The movie didnt have enough time to show us Batman zap a pic with Faden and his escorts or go through Falcone's shipment papers, etc, but it all got done. And then he investigated Scarecrow's Narrows appartment and figured out Ras plan. The movie had its detective moments but obviously the focus wasnt on detective work but rather on Bruce's origins and first missions as Batman.

In TDK he did some detective work as well but the bullet thing was ******ed and the sonar was just plain cheating. I liked the moral issues the sonar device brought up for discussion but i'd rather Bruce had used clues and logic to figure out the Joker's plan. Its ironic that the guy that had all the backup plans, preptime and brawn in the movie was the Joker. He was more Batman that Batman!

 

[The Joker]

In Begins he asked Gordon about what they would need to bring Falcone down and he got all that. The movie didnt have enough time to show us Batman zap a pic with Faden and his escorts or go through Falcone's shipment papers, etc, but it all got done.

But it had enough time to show us him ordering bits and bobs for his costume, making batarangs, and spray painting his costume etc? Please.

The detective work is a much more important aspect than all that. Nolan could easily have put it in if he was so inclined.

And then he investigated Scarecrow's Narrows appartment and figured out Ras plan. The movie had its detective moments but obviously the focus wasnt on detective work but rather on Bruce's origins and first missions as Batman.

He didn't figure out Ra's plan. Lucius Fox did. He told him all about the microwave emitter, and how you have to use microwave emitter to disperse the toxin, and how one went missing from Wayne Enterprises.

Then Ra's popped up, and in true cliche super villain style, bragged about all the details of his grand scheme, and then left Bruce to die in an easily escapable situation

In TDK he did some detective work as well but the bullet thing was ******ed and the sonar was just plain cheating.

Ehhhh no, Batman has used technology like that on numerous occasions to locate an enemy. It's no different to sticking a tracking device.

I liked the moral issues the sonar device brought up for discussion but i'd rather Bruce had used clues and logic to figure out the Joker's plan.

How could he have figured out Joker was going to target the ferries? He knew with absolute certainty that the ferries wouldn't blow eachother up though. He told Gordon that, and the Joker, too.

Its ironic that the guy that had all the backup plans, preptime and brawn in the movie was the Joker.

You mean like Ra's did when he had infiltrated every level of Gotham's infrastructure? Burned down Bruce's home? Bruce never even knew Ra's was Ducard.

The Joker was played without rules. He instilled a fear in the criminal element itself, like when Maroni told him that nobody is going to cross the Joker for Batman, because they're now wise to act because he has rules, while Joker doesn't.

 

[Mr. Earle]

It was a novel approach. Explaining every little detail of the character. It was important to show us Batman investigating Crane's appartment and they showed that but was it so important to see him go through Falcone's shipment papers after he busted his operation? Redundant imho. The detective work was explained, the movie didnt have to get bogged down with it. The important aspects of it were shown.

 

[Mr. Earle]

How could he have figured out Joker was going to target the ferries? He knew with absolute certainty that the ferries wouldn't blow eachother up though. He told Gordon that, and the Joker, too.

The story could have been weaved differently to allow batman to at least know where the joker would be.

He didn't figure out Ra's plan. Lucius Fox did. He told him all about the microwave emitter, and how you have to use microwave emitter to disperse the toxin, and how one went missing from Wayne Enterprises.

Then Ra's popped up, and in true cliche super villain style, bragged about all the details of his grand scheme, and then left Bruce to die in an easily escapable situation

Oh ****, you re right!

You mean like Ra's did when he had infiltrated every level of Gotham's infrastructure? Burned down Bruce's home? Bruce never even knew Ra's was Ducard.

The Joker was played without rules. He instilled a fear in the criminal element itself, like when Maroni told him that nobody is going to cross the Joker for Batman, because they're now wise to act because he has rules, while Joker doesn't.

Its one thing to infiltrate and plan and do things, and another to have backup plans more hax than Silver Age Batman's.
The Joker wanted to kill Harvey who he thought was Batman, even though he later admits he didnt want to kill batman. But lets move on, he then had organised for Harvey to get abducted, even though he supposedly was Batman and the fat cop wouldnt be enough to hold the goddamn Batman. He also had arranged for both Harvey and Rachel to be placed at two different warehouses so that if Harvey wasnt the real batman, the real one would have to choose. And of course he knew how to set the timers to the second so that Batman would have time to rescue Harvey but the police wouldnt make it. Not only that but he also had the stomach bomb guy in MCU to help him escape in case he got caught. Blah, blah, blah, lovely plans but too hax if you ask me.

Dont get me wrong, i loved the Joker's plans and how devastating he was, but it would be nice to see Batman's genius and preptime for once. Besides, preptime and backup are Batman's shtick. The Joker matches that with being unpredictable and random.

 

[The Joker]

It was a novel approach. Explaining every little detail of the character.

But we didn't, did we. That's the point. All this incriminating stuff, we never saw where he got it. He just popped up with it and handed a big file full of it to Rachel.

Not that I'm criticizing it per se, I'm just pointing out the double standard here. We got more insight in TDK as to how he did his detective work than we did in Begins.

It was important to show us Batman investigating Crane's appartment and they showed that but was it so important to see him go through Falcone's shipment papers after he busted his operation? Redundant imho.

Yeah, and it was important to show us he worked out which banks were the mob's by putting marked bills in their cash, or cross referencing possible target locations at Commisoner Loeb's funeral, or figuring out Lau was linked to the mob by checking out his company books, or analyzing the bullet, or cross referencing all the Cops with relatives in the hospital which saved Reese's life etc.

The detective work was explained

In TDK, yes. In Begins, not so much. It's left up to the imagination. Obviously we can guess Batman must have went and photographed Judge Faden, or went and broke into Falcone's records etc.

The story could have been weaved differently to allow batman to at least know where the joker would be.

He did, when he rigged up the sonar device.

Joker wasn't set up in a location that you can follow using a set of clues. He chose some random building near the waterfront where he could keep an eye on the ferries.

Its one thing to infiltrate and plan and do things, and another to have backup plans more hax than Silver Age Batman's.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is hax?

The Joker wanted to kill Harvey who he thought was Batman, even though he later admits he didnt want to kill batman. But lets move on

Well just to address this one, he later didn't want to kill Batman because he started to really enjoy challenging him. It would be boring without him.

he then had organised for Harvey to get abducted, even though he supposedly was Batman and the fat cop wouldnt be enough to hold the goddamn Batman.

He said he only thought that "For a while there".

Some people theorize that Joker knew Harvey wasn't Batman as soon as he saw the Tumbler arrive during the chase sequence. They reckon that's what his "Hmmmmmm" was all about when he saw it.

He also had arranged for both Harvey and Rachel to be placed at two different warehouses so that if Harvey wasnt the real batman, the real one would have to choose. And of course he knew how to set the timers to the second so that Batman would have time to rescue Harvey but the police wouldnt make it.

Because he knew Batman obviously had some sort of personal affection for Rachel, which he taunted him about, so he knew Batman would go to rescue her if given the choice. The Cops were never going to beat Batman to a scene.

Not only that but he also had the stomach bomb guy in MCU to help him escape in case he got caught. Blah, blah, blah, lovely plans but too hax if you ask me.

What do you mean in case he got caught? He PLANNED to get caught.

Gordon: "The Joker planned to be caught. He wanted me to lock him up in the MCU". It was no stroke of luck. He fully intended to be captured, that's why he had an escape method arranged.

 

[Mr. Earle]

He did, when he rigged up the sonar device.

Joker wasn't set up in a location that you can follow using a set of clues. He chose some random building near the waterfront where he could keep an eye on the ferries.

There could have been a way if the story was written that way. Instead Batman cheated.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is hax?

Something deemed unfair or unexpectedly unfavorable. Could be used to accuse someone of using cheating/hacking/some sort of trickery to accomplish something, usually jokingly.

He said he only thought that "For a while there".

Some people theorize that Joker knew Harvey wasn't Batman as soon as he saw the Tumbler arrive during the chase sequence. They reckon that's what his "Hmmmmmm" was all about when he saw it.

And that was too late to organise the abduction.

Because he knew Batman obviously had some sort of personal affection for Rachel, which he taunted him about, so he knew Batman would go to rescue her if given the choice. The Cops were never going to beat Batman to a scene.

But he knew exactly how long it would take for Batman to show up, interrogate him, drive all the way to the warehouse and barely beat the clock?

 

[Fresh Prince]

Do we really need Scarecrow back?....Unless they going for the Mob vs. Freaks War thing.

 

[The Joker]

There could have been a way if the story was written that way. Instead Batman cheated.

It's not a cheat. Good god, man, Batman uses his technology all the time to locate enemies.

Something deemed unfair or unexpectedly unfavorable. Could be used to accuse someone of using cheating/hacking/some sort of trickery to accomplish something, usually jokingly.

Ok, well that definitely doesn't apply here. Otherwise Batman's been doing that for years. And that ain't true.

And that was too late to organise the abduction.

Have you ever heard of a cell phone?

That is assuming that is the moment he figured it out.

But he knew exactly how long it would take for Batman to show up, interrogate him, drive all the way to the warehouse and barely beat the clock?

You're splitting hairs. Joker chose how much info he decided to share with Batman, and when. He decided to tell Batman he had to save "Them", when Batman initially thought only Harvey was in danger. Joker allowed Batman to beat the crap out of him to a point, then he decided to tell Batman the locations, and lied to him about who was where, too.

He knew Batman would leave when he told him what he wanted to know. So he toyed with him for a while. That's the Joker. He loves playing mind games, and toying with people.

 

[El Payaso]

First of all its a movie.

Ah ok, then the right word is "plothole."

Second, perhaps there is a way to set the amount of gas you want to use, so maybe Crane set it to 10/10 just for that one shot, when Batman only used the standard dose.

Well, Batman didn't set it any differently. Not that we could have seen nor that he knew about any dosage setter.

Because Crane using it with Rachel 10/10 and then lowering the dosage for a possible Batman attack doesn't sound too plausible.

How about his constant lip licking every 5 seconds? I thought that was very hack and lame.

Very good point; Ledger knew how to do it.

But he probably wont be in it. It would be overkill if Scarecrow is in that one as well. I'd expect Batman to go:"Dude, you again? Give me a ****ing break will ya?"

I picture Batman walking through a bunch of super-villiains, spotting Scarecrow and going, 'you again? get out or I'll call Rahel,' and Scarecrow screaming like a girl again out of the movie.

 

[BestGirl]

I figure the abduction was planned well ahead of time. The Joker probably told his henchmen that if he failed to kill Dent they should kidnap him.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Very good point; Ledger knew how to do it.

I was talking about Ledger. As good as he was, that lip licking was lame.

Well, Batman didn't set it any differently. Not that we could have seen nor that he knew about any dosage setter.

Because Crane using it with Rachel 10/10 and then lowering the dosage for a possible Batman attack doesn't sound too plausible.

You re thinking too much into it. Crane, Bruce and Rachel were gased in this movie.
Alfred called Fox after Bruce's condition worsened after the first day. Therefore Bruce endured 24 hours without an antidote or treatment.
But Rachel had a few hours before her mind would be lost because Crane gave her a concentrated dose as he said. Scarecrow cant go around giving concentrated doses to everyone or no one will live and we would have no story. Besides, if Crane really wanted to kill people instantly he'd use a gun or a stronger poison. He is obsessed with tormenting his victims through fear. Therefore Rachel's case was a one off where Scarecrow didnt care for that and simply his worst trying to kill her instantly as she was insignificant to him.
That's why both Scarecrow himself and Bruce didnt lose their minds in a few hours. That is why there is that whole dialogue with the thug so that Nolan can explain to us why Rachel's case is different and why Batman had to bring her to the cave.

 

[Fresh Prince]

Scarecrow could be used as a mobster who is one of the new freak mobsters in war with the regular mob.

 

[returntovoid]

Unless they going for the Mob vs. Freaks War thing.

It's very likely that they might go with the Mob Vs. Freaks aspect.

Since the Gotham Mob fell apart in TDK.

 

[firstclassclown]

With Murphy saying that he's keeping with fingers crossed just means that he's excited about that possibility that his character will be included in the next film. As a working actor it gives him another job. As an artist it gives him more exposure. I don't think he knows anything is 100% but like many of us, has an idea that something special is getting ready to be announced and that he will be part of it in some way.

 

[FaT_tONle]

My gut tells me Nolan will pass the torch to someone else when the time comes and we'll get a lack luster effort.

 

[Brother Jack]

Scarecrow could be used as a mobster who is one of the new freak mobsters in war with the regular mob.

I'd prefer him in a Hannibal Lecter type of role, where Batman (or Gordon for that matter) would have to go to him in Arkham for help on how to catch someone.

 

[firstclassclown]

My gut tells me Nolan will pass the torch to someone else when the time comes and we'll get a lack luster effort.

Please don't say such terrible things. Do you honestly expect Nolan to trust his franchise, and possible last film to a superb trilogy, to someone else. No offense but sir, I hope you're wrong. In Nolan I trust

I'd prefer him in a Hannibal Lecter type of role, where Batman (or Gordon for that matter) would have to go to him in Arkham for help on how to catch someone.

That would be amazing!

 

[Mr. Earle]

I'd prefer him in a Hannibal Lecter type of role, where Batman (or Gordon for that matter) would have to go to him in Arkham for help on how to catch someone.

Not only is it cliche, but why would the world's greatest detective need the Scarecrow's help?
I'd rather he solves the case on his own.

 

[Brother Jack]

Not only is it cliche, but why would the world's greatest detective need the Scarecrow's help?
I'd rather he solves the case on his own.

Because a) Batman can't always figure out everything himself and b) Crane is a psychologist as well as a masked criminal who feasibly could aid Batman in catching someone or solving a crime that he is stumped on.

 

[Ziggyman]

Would love for Cillian to get a bigger role in the third one...but him helping Bats...Nuh uh! Btw...is Crane part of the freaks...? Could be cool...if he was working freelance for both the freaks and mob...

 

[Fresh Prince]

It's very likely that they might go with the Mob Vs. Freaks aspect.

Since the Gotham Mob fell apart in TDK.

Good we can have a Batman Meets The Godfather angle.

 

[El Payaso]

Good we can have a Batman Meets The Godfather angle.

Scarecrow is Batman world's Fredo.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I remember Nolan saying he picked Murphy because of his striking eyes amongst other things.

So if you have a problem with Murphy's intense eyes, you have a problem with Nolan's judgement.

 

[contemporarydog]

It was pretty awesome that he was in the second film, no matter how small the part. I wish I hadn't seen his name in the cast prior to seeing the film though, wouldve been a great surprise!

As for the return of Crane, I think he should definitely return, even in the third installment, and he should be there bigger and badder than before. May be a little redundant, who knows.

Yep, been a big fan of Murphy ever since 28 Days Later, and 'Not my Diagnosis!' is one of my favourite lines in the two films.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I remember Nolan saying he picked Murphy because of his striking eyes amongst other things.

So if you have a problem with Murphy's intense eyes, you have a problem with Nolan's judgement.

I often do, but in this case i agree with him. Murphy was amazing!